How Can Hip Hop be Dead, When Wu-Tang is Forever?

[PrincessY]

Originally Posted by Soulquarian

That's easy. Most people who dislike rap/hip hop say they don't like it because of it's content. That's stupid. Hip Hop is probably one of the most varied genres we have today.

I can completely agree with this. And I can totally appreciate the lyrics of rap/hip hop. Many are quite moving and profound.

Originally Posted by Soulquarian

... all have distinct styles. Hip Hop does not. The focus of the music is lyrics and not musical styling per se.

And this is probably where rap loses me. I do not hear "music" when I hear rap. I do hear a beat, and some amazing lyrics. So when I want to listen to music, I don't choose rap. This is, of course, just my opinion. Doesn't make it right.

Thank you for the thoughtful input, Soulquarian. I appreciate your unemotional, and obviously educated, response! I'm still not sure about the statistic that "most" people like rap/hip hop. Most of the younger generation (under 35?) appreciate it, and most in the urban/city areas. Which probably makes it well above 50% of the population. But I bet you'd be hard pressed to find anyone in most of middle America who like it. And the large "Baby Boomer" (me ) population are probably not fans in general.

[TiaDalmaFan]

Originally Posted by PrincessY

I'm still not sure about the statistic that "most" people like rap/hip hop. Most of the younger generation (under 35?) appreciate it,

Hip Hop's been around for over 30 years; it began in the early 1970s in the South Bronx. Hip Hop pioneer DJ Kool Herc is 52, while Afrika Bambaataa's 50. Ice T's 49, as is Def Jam label co-founder & entrepreneur Russell Simmons. Kurtis Blow is 48. Chuck D., headman of Public Enemy, just turned 47. Rev. Joseph "Run" Simmons & Darryl "DMC" McDaniels (of Run-DMC) are both 43. LL Cool J is 39. Def Jam President & CEO Jay-Z is 38, as is Ice Cube. So Hip Hop, like Rock music, might still in many respects be something the youth relate to more immediately, but there are very definitely some veteran acts.

Originally Posted by PrincessY

and most in the urban/city areas. Which probably makes it well above 50% of the population. But I bet you'd be hard pressed to find anyone in most of middle America who like it.

By "middle America," do you mean geographically speaking? I hope not, because Chicago, St. Louis, Houston, Dallas, Kansas City, and even places like Omaha, Nebraska have thriving hip hop scenes.

If you just meant "rural," though, that could probably be a fair assessment, but rural and small-town America has its hip hop aficionados as well.

Originally Posted by PrincessY

And the large "Baby Boomer" (me ) population are probably not fans in general.

Roughly speaking, anyone, Black, white, or anything else, from about 45 or 50 on up is not usually expected to be a fan of hip hop, generally preferring more of the old school tunes of their generation (and nothing wrong with that; it's a perfectly natural thing in any generation). Some folks in the 45 to 65 age range, though, have been known to appreciate some hip hop works for their inventiveness, though. But largely, yeah, I think you're right on this.

[cal4iri]

Originally Posted by TiaDalmaFan

You've been listening to Twista lately, haven't you?

For me, hip hop music's appeal lies in two main areas - good, strong beats, and deft, creative wordplay. There are lots of hits and misses, but sometimes, whew, someone just nails it perfectly.

You're exactly right! When they get it, they get it! I feel like there aren't quite as many songs lately that are perfect but there are some.
In your opinion, what artist gets it perfect most of the time?
What songs do you think "nail" it?

[PrincessY]

Originally Posted by TiaDalmaFan

Hip Hop's been around for over 30 years; it began in the early 1970s

Yep. I remember.

Originally Posted by TiaDalmaFan

By "middle America," do you mean geographically speaking? If you just meant "rural," though, that could probably be a fair assessment, but rural and small-town America has its hip hop aficionados as well.

No, I didn't mean it literally. And I was speaking in general terms. I'm sure there are people who live in Podunk, Iowa who like rap, just as I'm sure there is some one somewhere in Detroit who actually likes country music (or Celtic music, or Hawaiian music).

Thank you for your thoughts, TDF.

[TiaDalmaFan]

Originally Posted by cal4iri

You're exactly right! When they get it, they get it! I feel like there aren't quite as many songs lately that are perfect but there are some.
In your opinion, what artist gets it perfect most of the time?
What songs do you think "nail" it?

Just for myself, I'd say Jay-Z, Kanye, and Talib Kweli are all pretty consistent when it comes to spitting some hair-raising rhymes.

Jay-Z; December 4th:
All my teachers couldn't reach me, / and my mama couldn't beat me / hard enough to match the pain of my pops not seein' me. / SO! with that disdain in my membrane, / I got on my pimp game, / f*** the world, my defense came.

Talib Kweli; I Try:
Life is a beautiful struggle / People search through the rubble for a suitable hustle / Some people usin' the noodle, some people usin' the muscle / Some people put it all together, make it fit like a puzzle

Kanye West; Never Let Me Down:
I get down for my grandfather who took my momma / Made her sit in that seat where white folks ain't want us to eat / At the tender age of 6 she was arrested for the sit in / And with that in my blood I was born to be different / Now n*ggaz can't make it to ballots to choose leadership / But we can make it to Jacob's and to the dealership / Swear I hear new music and I just don't be feelin' it / Racism's still alive, they just be concealin' it

These are just a few examples.

[SummerInFL]

Originally Posted by TiaDalmaFan

Just for myself, I'd say Jay-Z, Kanye, and Talib Kweli are all pretty consistent when it comes to spitting some hair-raising rhymes.

Jay-Z; December 4th:
All my teachers couldn't reach me, / and my mama couldn't beat me / hard enough to match the pain of my pops not seein' me. / SO! with that disdain in my membrane, / I got on my pimp game, / f*** the world, my defense came.

Talib Kweli; I Try:
Life is a beautiful struggle / People search through the rubble for a suitable hustle / Some people usin' the noodle, some people usin' the muscle / Some people put it all together, make it fit like a puzzle

Kanye West; Never Let Me Down:
I get down for my grandfather who took my momma / Made her sit in that seat where white folks ain't want us to eat / At the tender age of 6 she was arrested for the sit in / And with that in my blood I was born to be different / Now n*ggaz can't make it to ballots to choose leadership / But we can make it to Jacob's and to the dealership / Swear I hear new music and I just don't be feelin' it / Racism's still alive, they just be concealin' it

These are just a few examples.

And you don't see the anger and bitterness in these lyrics at all?

[PanTheMan]

Re: How Can Hip Hop be Dead, When Wu-Tang is Forever?

Because someone wang chunged tonight, and everyone had fun tonight.

And that about killed it.

[TiaDalmaFan]

Originally Posted by SummerInFL

And you don't see the anger and bitterness in these lyrics at all?

Sure, of course I do, but that anger and bitterness are a reflection of the artists' reality, and the reality of Black life in this country. Some people tend to forget that hip hop is still very much rooted in the Black urban experience; it didn't spring forth from the gentle hills of Virginia, the cookie cutter housing tracts of Orange County, or the palatial estates of Connecticut. It came out of the South Bronx originally, but is still very much a part of Black urban America, and the lyrics are going to reflect that hard reality. This is not kiddie music and these are not simplistic dance tunes; the best hip hop is, as Chuck D. once famously proclaimed, "...CNN for Black people." Jay-Z's lyric above, for example, is an explanation for what happens when fatherless-ness besieges a young Black man and leaves him psychically vulnerable.

I'm betting if you ever encounter dead prez, your head will explode.

[ThomasJefferson]

Originally Posted by TiaDalmaFan

If you were worried 'bout where
I been or who I saw or
what club I went to with my homies
baby don't worry you know that you got me

(Black Thought)
Somebody told me that this planet was small
we use to live in the same building on the same floor
and never met before
until I'm overseas on tour
and peep this Ethiopian queen from Philly
taking classes abroad
she studyin' film and photo/flash/focus/record
said she workin' on a flick and
could my click do the score?
she said she loved my show in Paris
at Elysee Montmartre
and that I stepped off the stage
and took a piece of her heart
we knew from the start that
things fall apart, intentions shatter
she like "that sh*t don't matter"
when I get home - get at her
through letter, phone, whatever
let's link, let's get together
sh*t, you think not? think the Thought went home and forgot?
time passed, we back in Philly now she up in my spot
tellin' me the things I'm tellin' her is makin' her hot
startin' buildin' with her constantly round the clock
now she in my world like hip-hop
and keep tellin' me

(Chorus)

[Black Thought]
Yo, I'm the type that's always catchin' a flight
and sometimes I gotta be out at the height of the night
and that's when she flip and get on some ol'

[Eve]
Another lonely night?
seem like I'm on the side; you only loving your mic...
I know you gotta get that paper, daddy; keep that sh*t tight
but yo - I need some sort of love in my life, you dig me

Thet snake could be that chick
and that rat could be that cool cat
that's whisperin' "she tryin' to play you for the fool, Black"
if something's on your chest then let it be known
see I'm not your every-five-minutes-all-on-the-phone
and on the topic of trust, it's just a matter of fact
that people bite back and fracture what's intact
and they'll forever be; I ain't on some "oh I'm a celebrity" -
I deal with the real, so if it's artificial, let it be
I've seen people caught in love like whirlwinds
listenin' to they squads and listenin' to girlfriends
that's exactly the point where they whole world ends
lies come in, that's where that drama begins, she like -

(Chorus: repeat until fade)

Well, isn't that special.

[TiaDalmaFan]

Originally Posted by ThomasJefferson

Well, isn't that special.

Do you have a problem?

[SummerInFL]

Originally Posted by TiaDalmaFan

Sure, of course I do, but that anger and bitterness are a reflection of the artists' reality, and the reality of Black life in this country. Some people tend to forget that hip hop is still very much rooted in the Black urban experience; it didn't spring forth from the gentle hills of Virginia, the cookie cutter housing tracts of Orange County, or the palatial estates of Connecticut. It came out of the South Bronx originally, but is still very much a part of Black urban America, and the lyrics are going to reflect that hard reality. This is not kiddie music and these are not simplistic dance tunes; the best hip hop is, as Chuck D. once famously proclaimed, "...CNN for Black people." Jay-Z's lyric above, for example, is an explanation for what happens when fatherless-ness besieges a young Black man and leaves him psychically vulnerable.

I'm betting if you ever encounter dead prez, your head will explode.

Never assume to know everything about the people who question you. Obviously you know nothing of my life or where I came from. I am a positive person by nature, I stay that way because of my outlook on life, I don't let things that happened to me keep me from enjoying what I can in this world.

That being said I understand the need for an artistic release, the need to show power behind a song through lyrics. My only problem is and please, I am asking you to help me here, find me some hip hop that doesn't have one negative, violent, anger driven message to it. I understand the harsh realities that people grow up with and live through, but if the majority of the music reflects that, after awhile it gets tired to hear the same arguments over and over and over.

Now please remember this is strictly about the music and lyrics, this isn't an attack on any race or color, this is my interpretation of how Hip Hop comes across to me and my questions regarding it.

[Soulquarian]

Originally Posted by SummerInFL

That being said I understand the need for an artistic release, the need to show power behind a song through lyrics. My only problem is and please, I am asking you to help me here, find me some hip hop that doesn't have one negative, violent, anger driven message to it. I understand the harsh realities that people grow up with and live through, but if the majority of the music reflects that, after awhile it gets tired to hear the same arguments over and over and over.

Now please remember this is strictly about the music and lyrics, this isn't an attack on any race or color, this is my interpretation of how Hip Hop comes across to me and my questions regarding it.

I think it all depends on where your at, and what you've experienced throughout your lifetime. Some people enjoy aggressive rap because they've never been through many rough patches in their life. They're living vicariously through the music. Other people listen to it because they can relate to the issues. You may get tired of the arguments that are presented in the music, but to someone like me, who still has to deal with the situations presented, it won't get old until it's no longer relevant.

That's one reason why I don't really think "race relations" work. The average person could care less about what someone else is going through. Unless you can relate, it's just going to be a bunch of yip yap.

There are songs that are less politically, socially, and racially motivated, but the best songs in ANY genre usually are...

[PrincessY]

Originally Posted by Soulquarian

I think it all depends on where your at, and what you've experienced throughout your lifetime. Some people enjoy aggressive rap because they've never been through many rough patches in their life. They're living vicariously through the music. Other people listen to it because they can relate to the issues.

My childhood was terrible, but I no longer want to dwell on the negatives of my life. I don't want to hear music about living on welfare, having one pair of shoes, being dragged to bars by my alcoholic father while my mother tried to scrape together enough money so we could have our lights turned back on and have something to eat.

If that is all you want to focus on, then that is how your life will be focused.

[SummerInFL]

Originally Posted by Soulquarian

I think it all depends on where your at, and what you've experienced throughout your lifetime. Some people enjoy aggressive rap because they've never been through many rough patches in their life. They're living vicariously through the music. Other people listen to it because they can relate to the issues. You may get tired of the arguments that are presented in the music, but to someone like me, who still has to deal with the situations presented, it won't get old until it's no longer relevant.

That's one reason why I don't really think "race relations" work. The average person could care less about what someone else is going through. Unless you can relate, it's just going to be a bunch of yip yap.

There are songs that are less politically, socially, and racially motivated, but the best songs in ANY genre usually are...

Alright, I can accept that answer, thank you for the explanation.

[SummerInFL]

Originally Posted by PrincessY

My childhood was terrible, but I no longer want to dwell on the negatives of my life. I don't want to hear music about living on welfare, having one pair of shoes, being dragged to bars by my alcoholic father while my mother tried to scrape together enough money so we could have our lights turned back on and have something to eat.

If that is all you want to focus on, then that is how your life will be focused.

Great point.