'The Princess and The Frog'

[Retrocool]

Originally Posted by Queentitania19

My first instinct was to jump in and say "to hell with ethnicity, give me a good freaking story!!" Because I wholeheartedly agree that should be the priority.

I don't disagree with this sentiment, in general.

Originally Posted by Queentitania19

And I found it both offensive and racist that retro cool would attack saying that we didn't know what it's like to be excluded because we're not black.

Actually, that's not what I said. I suggest you 1. calm down, 2. breathe deeply, and 3. re-read what I said in response to sailerm's post (which was to sailerm, it should be noted).

Here's what I said:

Just as you may not be able to directly relate, on a deep emotional level, to the tears and joyous celebration of African Americans' ecstatic enthusiasm of Barack Obama's Presidential election and inauguration, it's likely that you may not be able to directly relate to the happy-yet-tempered reception of the film in the African American community. Many a Black mother will be heaving big sighs of relief because now they can finally buy their daughters dolls that look like them, now they finally can have a Disney animated film they can bond together with, now there finally will be a popular film that other little Black girls will be able to connect to each other with - things that may not seem like much outside African American culture, but which are huge inside it (just ask Tyler Perry how loyal Black women are as audiences; then ask Lions Gate Films how much money they've made off Tyler Perry's movies).

It makes perfect sense that you might not be able to relate - you're not Black. And no, that's not a skin color or melanin issue, that's a cultural issue. America is not all one culture where the only difference is skin color. If it was that easy, we'd have worked out our differences as a society a long, long time ago.

Originally Posted by Queentitania19

That is a crock of crap that assumes a lot about another person's life.

Such as? What, exactly, am I assuming about you? Do I know you? Were my comments directed to you? Were my comments made with you in mind? Is this site all about you?

Originally Posted by Queentitania19

It also assumes that the only exclusivity that matters is race.

Again, not what I said.

Originally Posted by Queentitania19

I'm overweight. I have been my whole life. Ever see a fat Princess? How about a plain princess? Disney talks a whole talk about beauty being on the inside but you've never seen them do a fat ugly princess with a heart of gold. Why, because it wouldn't sell. As a matter of fact how many of the villains are the chubby ugly ones? I don't hate them for that. I won't punish them for that. Black, white, purple or green we can't all be beautiful skinny princesses. I worked in the Disney Store for 3 years and had to see heartbroken 7 year old girls that were already too big to fit in the pretty princess dresses.

Social exclusion (not exclusivity; those are two different concepts) based on race vs. social exclusion based on size is not being debated here, nor should it be. Unlike this attempt to play the Oppression Olympics insofar as size vs. race is concerned (obesity being a physical condition that a person can work to change; Michael Jackson's efforts notwithstanding, race is not generally something that one can change - nor should it be), I have not changed the subject.

I'm sorry, but as someone who is also obese, I cannot claim to fully comprehend what it means to be Black in America simply because I know what it means to be obese in America, and it would be wrong of me to claim that I did.

Originally Posted by Queentitania19

This story is a risk for them. A big one. Not only because they are returning to a medium that they themselves declared dead but also because this racial change could go boom in their faces.

Retro, you are the best example of that. While giving them begrudged praise because they've finally acted in a manner you approve of you slap them with censure because of the ethnicity of the prince.

I wouldn't go quite that far. I'm critical of their creative choices, but since when am I not allowed to have an opinion of my own?

Originally Posted by Queentitania19

Do you think they are idiots?

Would it really matter to you if I did?

Originally Posted by Queentitania19

Do you think that they are unaware of the serious controversy that still surrounds interracial relationships?

What "serious controversy" are you referring to? Serious controversy according to whom? Most white people don't seem to have a problem with it. That's nice and all, and golly-gee, it's just lovely that white people are so open-minded about interracial relationships, but have you ever stopped to consider just why those African Americans who do have a problem with it (whether in general or just in relation to this film) actually have that problem? Have you ever stopped to consider their perspective on this? Do you understand that it doesn't come from the same place that white supremacist opposition to interracial relationships comes from? Or have you simply decided, in your all-knowing wisdom, that any African American who doesn't toe a "colorblind" party line and questions such character casting is to be branded a "racist" and their opinion unworthy of any further consideration or thought?

If developing a story with a Black female lead character is such a HUGE risk, as you claim, then why compound that risk by having the love interest be a non-Black character? Is there something so inherently wrong with or different about Black males that to depict a handsome Black prince (from, say, Nigeria or Congo) as the love interest is to do something wrong or misguided? If not, why not? Is love between two people of color THAT offensive to that many people? Is there something inherently wrong about Black-on-Black love? Is it a turn-off to non-Black peoples? Have we already seen it a million times before in Disney animation (oh, wait, no, we haven't, have we?)?

Originally Posted by Queentitania19

They don't live in plastic bubbles. They know that it's a huge risk and said to hell with it and did it anyway. If anything it should be something that they are commended for.

And as I've stated (and which I'm sure you've completely glossed over), I don't have a problem with interracial relationships at all - quite the opposite. However, I do believe that for THIS PROJECT, because it is a "first" project with so much riding on it (for a variety of reasons; first African American Disney princess, first return to hand-drawn animation, the 1920s timeline, etc.), to depict an interracial relationship in this story needlessly adds an extra element of complexity and controversy to the project. I don't think that it was an intelligent creative decision. On a later, different project, it would have been just fine. For this project, given all that this project entails, I think it was a wrong decision, and I'm entitled to my opinion about that, thank you very much.

Originally Posted by Queentitania19

I know so many mixed families who have suffered that idiotic censure because their own race wasn't "good" enough for them. BULL****! They are the walking, talking, breathing examples of equality and the future of mankind. They are love and truth because they don't see race they see a person that they want to be with and they mix their lives and traditions and move forward toward the future without being choked by the past.

That's all very well and good, and like I said, I don't have any problem with interracial relationships at all (I promote them, as I said, and which you so clearly decided to ignore) but why is it so wrong to want little Black girls to value little Black boys and see them as potential "handsome princes"?

Oh wait. Maybe it's not little Black girls valuing little Black boys and seeing them as potential handsome princes that's the problem here. Maybe the problem is little white girls, and little Latina girls, and little Asian girls, valuing little Black boys and seeing them as handsome princes. Maybe the problem is those little white, Latina, Asian, and Black girls growing up into young women, and choosing young Black men as boyfriends and husbands, rather than choosing young white, Latina, or Asian men. Maybe that's the REAL problem that some people are having, and maybe that's why some people are so against the idea of a Black love interest for Tiana. Not because it might give little Black girls ideas, but because it might give little white, Latina, and Asian girls ideas.

Originally Posted by Queentitania19

Saying that portraying a white prince devalues black men is racism. It's hateful and prejudiced and narrow minded.

I disagree.

Originally Posted by Queentitania19

Two people falling in love and building a life together doesn't hurt anyone else, it doesn't devalue anyone else.

In the real world, no, it doesn't. But we're not talking about the real world, are we? We're talking about influential cultural devices, i.e., movies. Fictional characters that exist for reasons far different than those of actual living human beings.

Originally Posted by Queentitania19

The only thing that matters is that love. Does a poor man marrying a rich woman devalue rich men? Does an educated women marrying an uneducated man devalue Educated men? No, that is utterly illogical. One has nothing to do with the other.

You're not getting the point at all. This has to do with how Black men are perceived by the mainstream culture, and how they are valued (or not), and about positive media portrayals of Black people, Black males in particular. Most importantly, and this is crucial, it has to do with how Black children perceive themselves, both girls and boys. This process starts when they are children.

YouTube - A Girl Like Me

YouTube - White Doll, Black Doll. Which one is...

YouTube - 20/20 ABC News: Children & The...

Films such as The Princess and the Frog, viewed by millions of children, can impart various ideas about self-worth, along with other values. While on the one hand, this film does appear to lift up the image of a young Black woman, at the same time, it does not also lift up the image of a young Black man. And that troubles me, because this culture, overall, does not value Black people as much as it values white people (if you doubt my word on that, then ask yourself when was the last time a missing Black woman became huge national news that lasted for weeks, if not months; or the last Amber Alert you saw for a missing Black child, as opposed to a white child.)

YouTube - Missing White Woman Syndrome

You might claim that comment to be racist, but I don't believe that you truly understand the meaning of that word, not as it is applied. It isn't saying that white people are bad or evil; it's saying just what it says - that people of color are not valued as equally as white people are in this culture, and young Black males in particular are very often on the short end of the stick.

And no, I'm sorry, but being a size 26 white female in America today is not on an equal footing with that. Sure, women and men of size both experience social exclusion (I'm not denying that in the slightest; I know it's true), but it's of a totally different nature than that experienced by people of color.

We often give lip service to the idea of "role models" in our culture, and that includes movies, even animated ones. And sure, in some respects, no doubt Tiana is going to be lifted up as a type of role model for young Black girls (and probably girls of all ethnicities, but Black girls in particular). All I'm saying is - why have young Black boys been given short shrift by Disney in this regard? Where is their role model? (Not that they necessarily WOULD point to a Disney prince as a role model per se; but it would have been nice had they AT LEAST been positively represented.)

Nothing wrong with interracial romance or marriage, either, but why did they have to give the very first Black Disney princess a non-Black prince? Why now? Why the first? Can Black men not be princes? All I'm doing is asking these questions, and all I seek is an answer to that question. I have yet to hear any valid answer.

My concern is the same as was voiced by Shannon Prince in this recent blog: The Princess and the Frog and the Critical Gaze [Essay] at Racialicious - the intersection of race and pop culture

First, Tiana, the black princess, is paired up with a white prince (or at least a prince who looks white and is voiced by a Brazilian actor who also looks white) who has to save her from a black villain. Some might argue that portraying interracial marriage in film is good – but why then weren’t any of the white princesses given non-white princes to save them from white villains? And since Disney doesn’t give white princesses non-white princes, isn’t this interracial relationship at the expense of black boys who deserve a hero just as much as black girls deserve a heroine? Originally the prince was explicitly reported as being the jazz-loving monarch of a European country. By giving the prince an olive, but still white, complexion and a Brazilian accent, Disney gets to go forward with their original white hero yet make him ambiguous enough to not be unequivocally criticized as white at the same time. Furthermore, there’s a disturbing racial subtext to this plot. As intellectual Gayatri Spivak says, one of the main justifications of colonialism has been “white men saving brown women from brown men.” Here, that racist and sexist notion is invoked. The plot also follows Disney’s pattern of making their evil characters more “ethnic” and darker than their good characters. For example, the Chinese have wheat colored skin in Mulan while the Huns are dark gray. Aladdin is tan with European features while Jafar is brown with Arabic features.

Originally Posted by Queentitania19

Disney is walking on boggy shaky ground with this movie because of people who can decide in a heartbeat that their modern progressive cast is really a stereotyping slander against African-Americans. This can turn on them in the blink of an eye. You wonder what took so long?

Another red herring argument. If Disney had genuinely been interested in telling honest, respectful stories about African Americans, it could have done so long before now, without falling into the trap of propagating stereotypes. They still can.

Originally Posted by Queentitania19

Look at your own post. Look at the anger and resentment in it.

Yes, look at it. Consider it. Engage the brain and the heart. Think about the issues. Think about the different viewpoint. Meditate on just why there would even BE anger and resentment about something so seemingly innocuous as a Disney animated film. Ask yourself why anyone would care so much as to be that passionate about it. Don't just dismiss it automatically because it isn't all lollipops and cotton candy.

Originally Posted by Queentitania19

This movie is a lightning bolt and nobody at Disney had the cojones to tackle this socio-political juggernaut till now.

Oh, so now the movie is a sociopolitical message movie, on par with Bamboozled or Higher Learning? Earlier in your post it was escapist fantasy where one could vicariously become a totally different person. Intriguing.

[ALIASd]

Dreams Come True: Art of the Classic Fairy Tales
from the Walt Disney Studio
November 15, 2009 - March 14, 2010

Opening Preview
The first viewing of Dreams Come True will be at the Museum's annual Odyssey Ball, the opulent fundraising gala to be held the evening of Saturday, November 14, 2009. For information on tickets to Odyssey Ball, contact the NOMA Volunteer Committee at (504) 658-4141.

NOMA | Dreams Come True

[ALIASd]

The official site is live with updated content:

The Princess and the Frog - Official Website

[ALIASd]

WDAS

[Retrocool]

Originally Posted by ALIASd

WDAS

Any possibility of these photos in larger size? The artwork is absolutely beautiful. I love the background on the top photo!

[Disney Wrassler]

I wonder if Disney will have some sort of Tribute to New Orleans Square in the movie.

[ALIASd]

It'll be funnier to have a Blue Bayou restaurant sign visible in the background of a French Quarter scene.

[ALIASd]

Amazon.com: Learn to Draw Disney's The Princess...
Now available for pre-order: Just One Kiss Princess Tiana Doll, Disney's The Princess and the Frog 2010 Wall Calendar, Disney Princess and the Frog Movie Theater Storybook and Movie Projector and more

Amazon.com: Disney Just One Kiss Princess Tiana...

[ALIASd]

In related news:

SIGGRAPH 2009 Announces Plans to Benefit New OrleansWednesday

June 17, 2009

(Chicago, IL) - As the fourth anniversary of Hurricane Katrina approaches this August, SIGGRAPH 2009 is poised to host thousands of international computer graphics and interactive techniques professionals in the city of New Orleans. While the downtown New Orleans area is well prepared to host this global audience, the larger New Orleans community is still in need of support.

To give back to the New Orleans local community, SIGGRAPH introduces the SIGGRAPH 2009+1 Outreach program, giving people from around the globe opportunities to give back through a series of partnerships with local organizations. These outreach efforts focus on helping to educate local youth about enriching careers in technology and creative arts with a long term goal of strengthening the community as a whole by investing in this next generation.

"With its history rich in the arts and music, New Orleans is the quintessential SIGGRAPH host city. It will have hosted SIGGRAPH now three times and the tourism experience is even better than before." stated Jerome Solomon, SIGGRAPH 2009+1 Outreach Chair from Industrial Light & Magic. "The creative influences and unique characteristics that are deeply rooted in the city's art, music, architecture, and food closely correspond to the personalities and interests of the caring and generous SIGGRAPH community. Our '2009 + 1' outreach programs build on this spirit and will generate a lasting impact on this deserving community."

-- Algiers Technical Academy: A charter high school that is part of the Algiers Charter Schools Association, features several courses to train students in computer graphics.

SIGGRAPH is performing a complete makeover of the school's computer room and creating a new student computer graphics lab with computers donated from Walt Disney Animation Studios and software donated from Autodesk. Volunteers are needed to assist with painting, decorating, hardware setup, networking, software installation, and general cleanup of the lab. Volunteers can register online at Community | New Orleans Outreach | SIGGRAPH 2009.

more at:
SIGGRAPH 2009

[Baloo]

Originally Posted by Disney Wrassler

I wonder if Disney will have some sort of Tribute to New Orleans Square in the movie.

Actually some of the background scenes will look very familiar. Supposedly Walt Disney Animation went to Disneyland to get ideas for the movie

[ALIASd]

John Lasseter, Andreas Deja, Bruce Smith, Mike Surrey, Ron Clements and John Musker discuss Disney's return to hand drawn animation in AWNtv's exclusive "The Princess and the Frog" featurette.

The Return to Hand-Drawn Animation 2:48

AWNtv :: The Princess and the Frog Featurette

[sassy*tink]

The trailer on the website looks really good. I can't wait for this movie to come out!

[ALIASd]

Disney Channel sneak peek SUNDAY JUNE 28th 7PM

[Retrocool]

Most commented-on article in the last 30 days at AOL BlackVoices.com - Who Needs a Black Princess Anyway? We All Do - BV Black Spin

[DisneyHorace]

I really can't wait for this movie.
and I hope theres auditions for the Prince! I always wanted to be a Disney Prince and I so got that skin tone down. haha