D23 Loosing Its Luster?

[BlueSkyDriveBy]

Originally Posted by flynnibus

HOW they do it is pretty much irrelevant - the end result is the same.

No, the end result is not the same. But I doubt I'll ever be able to get you to see this.

There is a big difference between D23 setting aside a specific number of tickets for a special event and keeping them out of the online pool, versus "putting out the word" to an assortment of webmasters that they, along with their friends, will be able to access the ticket site 10 minutes ahead of the members, to grab tickets before anyone else is permitted online. If D23 controlled the number of tickets the webmasters get in advance and distributed them outside of the online reservation system, D23 can keep that number fairly low, and not worry about all of the acquaintances of the webmasters that are also gaining early access ahead of the members.

This is probably one of the main reasons that the tickets sell out so quickly. The webmasters and their large social circles are grabbing a huge chunk of tickets for themselves before members are even allowed access.


Is D23 doing this to create an artificial shortage, as Chuck suggested in his article? Possibly. I could see some marketing wonk theorizing that D23 membership would be perceived as a great value if the special events always sell out quickly. Of course, the other side of the coin would be the growing frustration of current members who keep getting locked out of these events. Those members are less likely to renew at the end of the year, which potentially results in net loss of membership overall.

I don't know why D23 would want to continue its current practice for the webmasters and their friends, when it could guarantee fan site coverage for these events while making more tickets available to its members, by using a different method of distribution to the webmasters. Perhaps it will take a loss in total membership at the end of the first year for them to get the message.

From what I've been reading on various discussion boards and fan sites, many members feel that the $75 membership fee is no longer justified, now that they've seen the D23 magazine beyond the first issue, and have experienced the ongoing frustration in trying to score event tickets online.

The four issues of D23 magazine can be purchased individually at select outlets, like Borders, for about the same price as the yearly membership dues. If you opt to purchase them at retail outlets, and there's an issue you're not particularly fond of, you don't have to buy it, thus saving yourself some cash. And if attempting to get tickets to the events is rarely fruitful and mostly a big waste of time, then belonging to D23 makes no sense. You don't need to be a member to browse through D23's web site, since it's available to everyone, and the magazines are available through retail.

It only makes sense to be a D23 member is you truly want every single magazine issue no matter the content and/or quality, and if you're able to attend at least one event each year that truly appeals to you. Otherwise, there are better ways to spend that $75 in the Disney fan universe.

For me, that would be what bfdf55 described earlier as the "by fans for fans" organizations, like Carolwood Pacific, NFFC, and the Walt Disney Family Museum. I don't really see the value in D23 overall, and would rather give my Disney fan dollars to those organizations which have earned the fans' trust over the years, or have given unquestionable value from the start, such as the WDFM.

D23 still comes off to me as a slick marketing machine, which isn't particularly heartfelt and genuine. I believe Disney is trying to siphon off members from those other "by fans for fans" clubs and organizations as a means to grow their bottom line. That's pretty much disgusting, given those clubs and organizations have kept Disney's bottom line pretty plump over the decades, especially during those decades when TWDC turned a deaf ear to the "foamers" whom they quietly detested behind closed doors in Burbank. Couple this with the slow progressive transformation of Imagineering into a job shop a la Uni Creative, and Corporate Disney™ ends up leaving a bitter rancid taste in my mouth.



Unless D23 undergoes a major overhaul in its operations and Borg-like assimilation mission, I'll be spending my Disney fan dollars elsewhere.

[flynnibus]

Originally Posted by BlueSkyDriveBy

No, the end result is not the same. But I doubt I'll ever be able to get you to see this.

There is a big difference between D23 setting aside a specific number of tickets for a special event and keeping them out of the online pool, versus "putting out the word" to an assortment of webmasters that they, along with their friends, will be able to access the ticket site 10 minutes ahead of the members, to grab tickets before anyone else is permitted online

And yet no one can say how this magical 'pre-selection' is happening, or what enables 'all their friends' to get in on it, yet no one else can. I don't buy it. If Disney were putting up some special webpage or phone number just for these people - it would have leaked. You're making some key assumptions that have nothing to back them up

1) that is special pool is unlimited in size
2) that this special pool is somehow 'open to anyone' yet only open to this special webmaster ring of people at the same time.

If either of those far flung assumptions fail, then the system has the same exact impact on the scarcity of tickets.

There is nothing to back up these assumptions about how the media access ruins it for everyone else.

Originally Posted by BlueSkyDriveBy

If D23 controlled the number of tickets the webmasters get in advance and distributed them outside of the online reservation system, D23 can keep that number fairly low, and not worry about all of the acquaintances of the webmasters that are also gaining early access ahead of the members.

And if this magic 'anyone can get tickets' line exists - how is it that it's stayed this big secret while still being shared amoung all their friends?

Originally Posted by BlueSkyDriveBy

This is probably one of the main reasons that the tickets sell out so quickly. The webmasters and their large social circles are grabbing a huge chunk of tickets for themselves before members are even allowed access.

If that were so, to a degree that would cause harm no less... the events would all be the same people every time. But they aren't. So again - where's the qualification of these assumptions??

Originally Posted by BlueSkyDriveBy

Is D23 doing this to create an artificial shortage, as Chuck suggested in his article? Possibly. I could see some marketing wonk theorizing that D23 membership would be perceived as a great value if the special events always sell out quickly. Of course, the other side of the coin would be the growing frustration of current members who keep getting locked out of these events. Those members are less likely to renew at the end of the year, which potentially results in net loss of membership overall.

If this frustration is what you are trying to avoid.. for the 100th time just fix the reservation system - something that really has nothing to do with media access.

Originally Posted by BlueSkyDriveBy

D23 still comes off to me as a slick marketing machine, which isn't particularly heartfelt and genuine. I believe Disney is trying to siphon off members from those other "by fans for fans" clubs and organizations as a means to grow their bottom line

If you want this to be a profit center - they're going to have to start charging a hell of a lot more for these events. It's a type of marketing that you must pay to play in. The exclusivity of it plays to their advantage. Personally I bet they start restricting more of the access to the D23 material. Right now they are fighting for exposure and justifying their existance.... so like the pusher they need to give some away for free. As their footing gets settled, they can afford to be more restrictive.

[SoccerMickey]

Originally Posted by Dustysage

Chuck, there was one big thing you failed to mention - and that is the filter through which you write this story. You are in charge of publicity for NFFC, which you perceive as being under attack by D23 and their Expo. So, I can understand your fear and anger. But very little of the Expo feedback that we saw on MiceChat reflects much concern. Additionally, the D23 events have and continue to sell well. If there is a problem, it is that D23 is perhaps a bit too successful for its own good. If people can't get into events, they may be less likely to renew.

I was personally VERY happy with the 3 Christmas events and have signed up for the Magic and Merriment event at WDW - which sold out almost immediately.

I hope that D23 continues to offer these unique events and serves up a mix of free, inexpensive, and premium events in the future.

I really don't sympathize with the tone of your article. Sure, there are issues with D23, but they are filling a much needed niche that Disney has failed to address for a very long time - their fans!

That's a good point...the truth is the NFFC has lost its luster. Their Holiday Extravaganza is the same weekend as the D23 Magic and Merriment and for the price ($85-95 for members or $130 for non-members) is not worth it based on the events that NFFC has planned. D23 might have known about the holiday extravaganza but they did not plan this event to be in competition to it the weekend before was the taping of the Xmas parade and the weekend following would be to close to Xmas.
Based on the amount of people who are complaining about not getting tickets for the event I feel that the event was sold out do to popularity, NOT giving media preferred treatment. It's a cool event! I was able to get in and I can't wait!

[bfdf55]

Originally Posted by flynnibus

A practice universally done in just about all forms of entertainment, education, sports, etc. To chastise D23 for allowing 'media' to have preferred access is just looking to pick a fight - not that D23 is being devious and underhanded.

The fan sites ARE the media for the target audience of D23.

Sounds like sour grapes to me.

I think that often the the issue is that what Disney provides in these events is limited edition/capacity. It's like having an artist produce a limited edition art piece of 100, and allowing art critics first shot at them before allowing the artist's subscribers a shot at them. So, those wishing to purchase the piece eventually have only 6 pieces available.

The same with having a band performing at a small venue and having all the seats taken by critics and special "friends" (and often having resellers scarfing up all available seats, but that's another discussion), resulting in all seats being gone when they actually make tickets available to the public.

I guess it really comes down to who Disney feels is more important to them. Since they already have their $79 from the D23 members, they feel it's more important to provide for those who will hype their event.

Unfortunately, I think Disney is acting on uncertainty and self doubt. Just as with everything Disney does, if they create a great product, they get an outstanding response. But, due to their recent penchant on producing "budget" conscious products, they feel the necessity to expand their promotion in order to "sell" it to those who are finding the Disney product less than they expect.

Your solution: having a lottery for tickets, makes the most sense. But make it for ALL tickets. If press wants to experience it, they can take a chance on the lottery. If the event is truly Disney (OLD Disney) quality, then press (especially online) will get the word out, which will eventually result in more support and better response by those that the events were designed for.

[flynnibus]

Originally Posted by bfdf55

I think that often the the issue is that what Disney provides in these events is limited edition/capacity. It's like having an artist produce a limited edition art piece of 100, and allowing art critics first shot at them before allowing the artist's subscribers a shot at them. So, those wishing to purchase the piece eventually have only 6 pieces available.

The same with having a band performing at a small venue and having all the seats taken by critics and special "friends" (and often having resellers scarfing up all available seats, but that's another discussion), resulting in all seats being gone when they actually make tickets available to the public.

Except both these analogies push a reality that isn't true, that there almost isn't any tickets for the members (6 pieces left, or all seats gone). This is a straw man that simply isn't true in these cases.

Until someone can illustrate how virtually all the visitors at these events are media - it's all exaggeration.

Originally Posted by bfdf55

I guess it really comes down to who Disney feels is more important to them. Since they already have their $79 from the D23 members, they feel it's more important to provide for those who will hype their event.

And here you pick a fight with the notion of allowing media special access. A problem WAY bigger then D23, and simply something that isn't a problem by most accounts. Critics getting special previews, Media getting free access, Media getting preferred access, etc.

Originally Posted by bfdf55

Your solution: having a lottery for tickets, makes the most sense. But make it for ALL tickets. If press wants to experience it, they can take a chance on the lottery. If the event is truly Disney (OLD Disney) quality, then press (especially online) will get the word out, which will eventually result in more support and better response by those that the events were designed for.

Everyone clamors for publicity, even Disney. I don't see Disney turning their backs on the very core audience they are trying to attract.

[bfdf55]

Originally Posted by flynnibus

Until someone can illustrate how virtually all the visitors at these events are media - it's all exaggeration.

Disneyland once had an artist signing for a limited edition piece of art at the NOS Gallery. The edition was 8 PIECES.By the time the Gallery opened for the signing, only two were left. That's an extreme example, but it DOES happen.

[bfdf55]

Originally Posted by flynnibus

And here you pick a fight with the notion of allowing media special access. A problem WAY bigger then D23, and simply something that isn't a problem by most accounts. Critics getting special previews, Media getting free access, Media getting preferred access, etc.

Generally, when media and critics get special previews, it's separate from the general public. If there isn't a totally separate access to the event, then their access should not be at the expense of the public.

So if there is seating for 500 in a theater, provide 25 (*or whatever number they deem proper) seats for press and the remainder for the public. If there are more than 25 (*) press requests, choose by lottery or make it first come first served. Any that don't get their press passes who want to can try their luck just as the general public when the tickets go on general sale. That way, at least the public has an equal chance at whatever overall number of tickets are available.

[flynnibus]

Originally Posted by bfdf55

Generally, when media and critics get special previews, it's separate from the general public. If there isn't a totally separate access to the event, then their access should not be at the expense of the public.

Seperate events do happen, but when something is a 'one time' thing, its just not possible. And it's impossible to do without being at the expense of others when their very presence takes away capacity. It's just the price paid - just like the price we pay for safety, etc. It's just something to accept.

Originally Posted by bfdf55

So if there is seating for 500 in a theater, provide 25 (*or whatever number they deem proper) seats for press and the remainder for the public. If there are more than 25 (*) press requests, choose by lottery or make it first come first served. Any that don't get their press passes who want to can try their luck just as the general public when the tickets go on general sale. That way, at least the public has an equal chance at whatever overall number of tickets are available.

Sure - and that is exactly what I'm saying. Unless the amount of media seats are unlimited, the impact of having the media get preferred access via the same reservation system is essentially the same as having them preselected and getting passes via some other way. The complaint hinges on the notion that the media has unlimited access ahead of time. Something that no one can substantiate.

[WDW1974]

Interesting discussion, but I see things a bit differently than other spirits.

First, there's no doubt that D23 is seeding the field with online webmasters, bloggers, and construction site photographers. Chuck has mentioned it, and I've heard the same thing from multiple folks at Disney.

You'd have to be very naive to think it's just chance that folks from sites like Miceage, Mouseplanet, Mousesteps, LaughingPlace, Jim Hill Media and others just luck out and snag tix to seemingly every event ... which they naturally blog about later.

I am many things, but naive wouldn't be one.

Then, there's the whole notion of these folks being labeled as 'media'. ... As a media professional with family that has deep roots in major media, I have an issue with the labeling of folks with no media/journalism/marketing background labeled the same as real professionals in the real world. They aren't. Having the financial (or family or government aid) resources to live in theme parks and write or photograph them does not a media pro make.

But even that is largely a sidebar.

Bottom line is why does D23 need any media coverage whatsoever, even online bloggers?

If it's truly a organization for the fans, why does it need any 'coverage'? It isn't like the fans aren't aware of it ... so why exactly would Disney need to seed the field?

We all know why. It's to engender more positive free publicity and to co-opt the sites. I mean, Zenia Mucha is the Publisher of D23 ... do you know what kind of person she is? Magical isn't a word used to describe her. I have a word, but it's a very nasty one ... it's also the one most people in the business use. If you think she has use for fans, drop her an email or letter and see if you get response. Give her a call to discuss the DCA expansion or the new Fantasyland at MK or the evils of the DDP. Hell, just go up to her at the next D23 event and give her a big hug ... oh yeah, she won't ever show up.

It's real simple. D23 is supposed to be a club for Disney's most loyal fans. It doesn't need any 'coverage' at all ... unless it has some ulterior motives.

Hey, I got a great idea for a press opp ... let's have Zenia hold a root-beer summit at TDA with Al Lutz and George Kalogridis (maybe Mary Niven could bring some snacks) . I'd pay to be there!!!

[bfdf55]

Originally Posted by WDW1974

We all know why. It's to engender more positive free publicity and to co-opt the sites. I mean, Zenia Mucha is the Publisher of D23 ... do you know what kind of person she is? Magical isn't a word used to describe her. I have a word, but it's a very nasty one ... it's also the one most people in the business use. If you think she has use for fans, drop her an email or letter and see if you get response. Give her a call to discuss the DCA expansion or the new Fantasyland at MK or the evils of the DDP. Hell, just go up to her at the next D23 event and give her a big hug ... oh yeah, she won't ever show up.

It's real simple. D23 is supposed to be a club for Disney's most loyal fans. It doesn't need any 'coverage' at all ... unless it has some ulterior motives.

Hey, I got a great idea for a press opp ... let's have Zenia hold a root-beer summit at TDA with Al Lutz and George Kalogridis (maybe Mary Niven could bring some snacks) . I'd pay to be there!!!

Whoa! if Zenia Mucha is involved with D23, then I'm totally put off. She was to Eisner (and now Iger) what Information Minister Mohammed Saeed Sahhaf ("there are no US troops in Baghdad!") was to Sadam Hussein.

I'm really disappointed to find that out. That really puts an intense corporate flavor on the "club", even if they are able to put out a flashy magazine.

I was really surprised that iger kept her on when Eisner left. She must have some incriminating information for her to keep her position at Disney given how "un-Disney" her personality is.