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  1. #31

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    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    Chapman said she called up Iger and gave him a piece of her mind. She sounds like a generally angry/controlling person who easily finds a lot she doesn't like about Disney, or society in general.
    I really hope that you would make the same broad generalizations if she were a man.

  2. #32

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    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    Personally, I see no difference. They are making a mountain out of a molehill
    The new Star Wars plot summery:

    Episode 7: Luke discovers that Darth Vader is not his father, and goes on a search for his real father

    Episode 8: Darth Vader is resurrected and goes on Jerry Springer, claiming he is Luke and Leia's father

    Episode 9: Princes Leia is not Luke's sister, making him furious (we all know why...).

  3. #33

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    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    Well the style was bound to change. 1, going from 3d to 2d and 2, she had to be in the same style as the rest of the princesses because I'm sure they are going to show up on similar merchandise. And lastly, whats wrong with having merida look a bit more formal? We see all the other princesses without weapons or their common clothes, why is this one so different?

    I feel like when the princesses show up on this sort merch, its like they are all posing for a photo. Of course they won't be bringing their weapons or their lounging clothes or going makeupless. There are plenty of disney merch available if you want that sort of look. Like mulan in war gear or belle as a villager. Just like there will still be merida in her old dress and bow.
    In the quest for quality, I have no problem with the characters footing the bill.

  4. #34

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    Re: Disney gives Brave's Merida a makeover, and mom's aren't happy about it

    I'm a mother of 2 girls and Merida is not one of my favorite characters for them to see or emulate. I really didn't like Brave much.
    As far as changing her appearance, I agree with Kristine Cook. It is possible to have different looks while still being you. I do think it is interesting that they changed some of her facial features - I guess that would bother me more than what she is wearing or her dimensions.

  5. #35

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    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    Quote Originally Posted by The First Star View Post
    I really hope that you would make the same broad generalizations if she were a man.
    This.

    Merida is HER character. Chapman created her. She has every right to be upset when Merida is changed, especially when it goes against the precepts with which the character was created.

    If Walt Disney were upset about someone changing Mickey Mouse into something different, would we call him an "angry person" too? How about Stan Lee getting angry if they changed Spider-Man to a ballerina? Or would we say "well, it's his character created with his vision; whatever they do to update the look should respect that completely?"

  6. #36

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    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    Quote Originally Posted by The First Star View Post
    I really hope that you would make the same broad generalizations if she were a man.
    Based on everything Chapman has said negatively about Pixar and Disney, yes, I would not be a fan if she was a man!

    She also denigrated the director who took over Brave for being a man . . . like that was a slap in the face or something. If I were fired from my job, and then I complained that they gave it to a woman, of all people, it would obviously be sexism and hatred of women.

    Mark Andrews put some of his daughter in Merida and her brothers as he has a daughter and three sons, and the men at Pixar talked about the relationship between parents and their kids as being universal. Still don't think they wrecked the film.
    Last edited by chesirecat; 05-14-2013 at 08:35 AM.

  7. #37

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    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    This.

    Merida is HER character. Chapman created her. She has every right to be upset when Merida is changed, especially when it goes against the precepts with which the character was created.

    If Walt Disney were upset about someone changing Mickey Mouse into something different, would we call him an "angry person" too? How about Stan Lee getting angry if they changed Spider-Man to a ballerina? Or would we say "well, it's his character created with his vision; whatever they do to update the look should respect that completely?"

    I understand a creator getting upset if their character was changed, but I don't remember the last time a creative called the changes 'atrocious'. I think that the reason why more creatives don't go ballistic with changes to their characters (which does happen) is because Chapman wanted Merida to be a special inspiration to daughters and mothers, more than just a character.

    When they did Up they didn't want to make the main character a special inspiration for older men, and if you look at DreamWorks, all of their characters are entertainment first and foremost. I personally found Merida to be a great character and entertaining because she was impulsive, thick headed, but good hearted and obviously at the emotional level of a teen.

    Is Merida a role model as Chapman wants? Our six year old watches all sorts of Disney and non-Disney films, she's not a super big Merida fan, (I like the film more), because I think the bear scared her. I don't think Merida is a perfect role model as she does get her mother to eat cake of dubious provenance, and could have poisoned her if the witch was 100% evil.

    Of course, everything has to be taken in context, Chapman publicly criticized Disney over being removed from Brave and has made comments about sexism in society and, again, goes on the attack with similar arguments. I don't remember the last time an animator was so public and so negative with Disney/Pixar.

    I'm not a big fan of the princess line, it is what it is and Disney commercialized it. I think Merida is fine on her own, and personally its kinda cool having a Merida character in the park, though I guess they use the "thin" face characters? Never really thought about the issue, don't think that the old Merida was overweight, so maybe Disney went to far by shrinking the waistline, but I thought that new Merida was a hint that we'll get a Brave 2 as she does look older.

    Honestly, now that Chapman works for DreamWorks (I don't like their films as they seem to be souless), maybe we shouldn't be surprised at how visciously she attacked Disney, though I am.
    Last edited by chesirecat; 05-14-2013 at 08:38 AM.

  8. #38

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    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    Of course, everything has to be taken in context, Chapman publicly criticized Disney over being removed from Brave and has made comments about sexism in society and, again, goes on the attack with similar arguments. I don't remember the last time an animator was so public and so negative with Disney/Pixar.
    I don't remember the last time a Disney/Pixar character was so drastically overhauled. Perhaps that has something to do with this. Perhaps, again, it is because the overhaul goes against everything the character was about. If they turned Luke Skywalker into a tap dancer or made Minnie Mouse look like Jessica Rabbit, I am 100% sure their creators and heirs would have just as strong comments.

    And sexism in society IS an issue - Chapman's comments are 100% dead on. If you're a woman in America (or elsewhere) you're constantly dealing with it, and there's no reason she shouldn't call attention to it.

  9. #39

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    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    "This one character may not do any damage to a girl's psychological development, per se," child development expert Dr. Robyn Silverman tells me. "But Merida joins a barrage of thin, sultry characters for girls, making her yet another facet of our sexed-up, thinned down messaging."Silverman points out that the original Merida "was beloved for her adventurous spirit, her unique look and her disinterest in romance as her 'goal' in life. Her allure was not physical--which sent a strong message to girls that they could be who they are-- and still be beautiful, brave and confident.
    "This redesign seems to stick a square peg into a round hole."


    I wouldn't describe new Merida as sultry, in one photo she still has her bow, and they didn't "sexualize" Pocahontas.

    http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/i/20...le-d631cm2.png

    Merida looks older, a little thinner, but its not like Merida was super chubby in the film, she seemed to be of normal weight, and be athletic.

  10. #40

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    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    My biggest problem with the whole Merida makeover is that Disney wants to change her looks after the movie. The movie was very popular because of who Merida was. The princess Merida reminds me a lot of the princess from Once Upon A Mattress. The red messy hair, the tom boy like attitude, and shooting the bow and arrow made Merida who she was and made the movie Brave (my least favorite princess movie of all time) a good movie. Now Disney wants to say "she wasn't good enough to be a princess" when they had already given her princess status by making her a princess in the movie. Not cool on Disney's part.

  11. #41

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    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    I don't remember the last time a Disney/Pixar character was so drastically overhauled. Perhaps that has something to do with this. Perhaps, again, it is because the overhaul goes against everything the character was about. If they turned Luke Skywalker into a tap dancer or made Minnie Mouse look like Jessica Rabbit, I am 100% sure their creators and heirs would have just as strong comments.

    And sexism in society IS an issue - Chapman's comments are 100% dead on. If you're a woman in America (or elsewhere) you're constantly dealing with it, and there's no reason she shouldn't call attention to it.

    Merida's style was different from classic Disney films. Look at Up, the protagonist has an unrealistic block of a head. In order to make Merida look like she matches the princesses, they made her head less of a squashed tennis ball shape. Honestly, when I saw the trailer for Brave I though that they messed up the heads of some of the characters, though it worked when I saw the film, there is a stylistic difference between characters in the film.

    My sister is an uber-successful professional. She remarks that a lot of her friends are guys, and she runs a law firm. Never heard her complain about always having to deal with sexism on a daily basis as she doesn't believe that she is a victim and wants everybody around her to take responsibility for their actions. She's the "its time to cowboy up and stop lying on the ground bleeding" type of person and is has served her well. So, no, most women don't complain about dealing with sexism on a daily basis.

    I would add that Chapman contributes to male stereotypes of men not understanding relationship issues when she slammed Mark Andrews for being the "man" and thus slap in the face, who took over Brave. Well, according to sources he helped the story when folks working on it were "stuck." I don't think that attacking a guy just for being a guy is justified by talking about sexism.

    With all the criticism, Disney did make Brave, and they'll make Inside Out, about the thoughts in a girl's head.
    Last edited by chesirecat; 05-14-2013 at 08:59 AM.

  12. #42

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    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    I don't remember the last time a Disney/Pixar character was so drastically overhauled. Perhaps that has something to do with this. Perhaps, again, it is because the overhaul goes against everything the character was about. If they turned Luke Skywalker into a tap dancer or made Minnie Mouse look like Jessica Rabbit, I am 100% sure their creators and heirs would have just as strong comments.

    And sexism in society IS an issue - Chapman's comments are 100% dead on. If you're a woman in America (or elsewhere) you're constantly dealing with it, and there's no reason she shouldn't call attention to it.
    This is important. Chesirecat... I'm not sure if you're a woman or not, but if you aren't, you may have somewhat of a harder time understanding what several of us are getting at. Sexism is alive and well... moreso than I think many are willing to concede. It is something that you deal with constantly, and thru that experience, you understand this viewpoint on an entirely different level. Disney has again furthered this aspect into Merida by doing what they did. And people are calling them on it. Sure, they've "enhanced" the other princesses in the past. Does that make it alright? Absolutely not. And though this is not by far a world-changing issue, it is something that Disney will keep doing unless someone steps in and fuels the fire beneath their feet.

  13. #43

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    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    Merida's style was different from classic Disney films. Look at Up, the protagonist has an unrealistic block of a head. In order to make Merida look like she matches the princesses, they made her head less of a squashed tennis ball shape. Honestly, when I saw the trailer for Brave I though that they messed up the heads of some of the characters, though it worked when I saw the film, there is a stylistic difference between characters in the film.

    My sister is an uber-successful professional. She remarks that a lot of her friends are guys, and she runs a law firm. Never heard her complain about always having to deal with sexism on a daily basis as she doesn't believe that she is a victim and wants everybody around her to take responsibility for their actions. She's the "its time to cowboy up and stop lying on the ground bleeding" type of person and is has served her well. So, no, most women don't complain about dealing with sexism on a daily basis.

    I would add that Chapman contributes to male stereotypes of men not understanding relationship issues when she slammed Mark Andrews for being the "man" and thus slap in the face, who took over Brave. Well, according to sources he helped the story when folks working on it were "stuck."

    With all the criticism, Disney did make Brave, and they'll make Inside Out, about the thoughts in a girl's head.
    Merida has a round, Celtic face. So do a lot of actual Scottish and Irish people. Not everyone has high cheekbones and an oval face.

    As for sexism, nobody says women aren't successful. However, the fact that you know one successful woman or have a small statistical sample that says such does not invalidate the fact that sexism and male privilege are alive and well. Get back to me when women make the same wages as men, are not constantly criticized for their appearance in the media even if they are heads of state, are immune from street harassment (since something like 90% of women have been harassed on the street), receive the same level of respect and pain management from the medical profession as men (since they are statistically less likely to receive adequate pain control and be taken seriously by doctors) and are taken seriously in domestic violence disputes everywhere. We could go on about this but it's not the place for it.

    The point IS, this is is why Merida is so important. This is why it's so important that the character be left alone. For once Disney had a princess that wasn't interested in a prince, that wasn't interested in glamor, and who liked herself - and was pretty and cute regardless - the way she was. For once Disney had a princess who didn't have an unrealistic body type. And they just blew all that away. They're saying the character just isn't good enough as she was, and that she needs to be Barbie dolled-up to be a princess.

    Considering that Merida at the park usually has a long line for her M&G, and considering how much girls love the merch, I daresay that they were perfectly happy with the way Merida looked before this change. There was no reason for it.
    Last edited by Malina; 05-14-2013 at 09:12 AM.

  14. #44

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    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    Quote Originally Posted by Princess Victoria View Post
    Sexism is alive and well...

    True, in Saudi Arabia they don't let women drive, or at least they didn't. The U.S. has made gains in this area, and believe it or not, there are women who take advantage of the sexism angle for inherent psychological benefits. Thinking that they failed not because they didn't do a good job, but because of sexism.

    Anybody can play the blame game for psychological benefits: minorities can say they didn't get the job because of racism, women can say it was sexism, white men can say that the government discriminates against them because of affirmative action. Men can say that they're falling behind when it comes to college graduation rates and decades of feminists railing against men.

    Ask anybody who is very successful and they'll tell you that they kept their nose to the grindstone and didn't perseverate over sexism, or other perceived unjustices. I wouldn't my daughter to view the world through the lens of sexism is everywhere as its not psychological healthy and is an easy out when you fail at something.
    Last edited by chesirecat; 05-14-2013 at 09:36 AM.

  15. #45

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    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    Merida has a round, Celtic face. So do a lot of actual Scottish and Irish people. Not everyone has high cheekbones and an oval face.
    I'm part Scott-Irish and part Norwegian, really scottish as Scott-Irish are just Scottish people who settled in northern Ireland. I get what they are going for with Merida, but she is also very much like a Mary Blair Small World creation as her head is exaggerated cherubicism.
    Last edited by chesirecat; 05-14-2013 at 09:41 AM.

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