Page 5 of 8 FirstFirst ... 2345678 LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 117
  1. #61

    • Banned User
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1,268

    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    CNN has an opinion article, titled "Babes" can be worthwhile role models, too

    Opinion: 'Babes' can be worthwhile role models, too - CNN.com

    Disney was quickly taken to task by many, including the film's writer and co-director Brenda Chapman, who called the makeover a "blatantly sexist marketing move based on money" that strips the character of her place as a "better, stronger role model ... something of substance, not just a pretty face that waits around for romance." The implication, of course, being that pretty girls can't be role models. Or have substance.

    and . . .

    Disney's Princess Merida doesn't take away from the positive message that "Brave" put forth: Lipstick or no, she's still the same girl inside. But Chapman's argument does -- by bringing the focus back to Merida's looks in a way that's exclusionary of all else.

    New Merida hasn't opened her mouth yet, but everybody is making all of these assumptions.

    The fact is that "babes" can be worthwhile role models, too, and no less so than those women whose looks are more rough and tumble. What's sexist, polarizing -- and most damaging -- is the suggestion that women can be only one or the other: pretty or powerful. Vulnerable or strong. Pink wearing or substantive. These are incorrect messages that serve to confuse and contain. Instead, the message should be about how these days, women can be many things. Girls -- and boys -- are listening.
    Last edited by chesirecat; 05-14-2013 at 12:47 PM.

  2. #62

    • Banned User
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1,268

    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    Walt Disney Consumer Products initiated the discussion when they changed Merida's look so that she would fit in with the other recently redesigned Princesses. She had to look different in order to be a true Disney Princess.
    Obviously, the design style of Merida from Brave, a Pixar movie, is different from ALL the other princesses (outside of weight/attitude, there is an Up! look to Merida). So, yes, regular Merida wouldn't match as she is stylistically different. They had to obviously make some changes. It would be like trying to put a Peanuts character in the world of Tangled, different styles.
    Last edited by chesirecat; 05-14-2013 at 12:50 PM.

  3. #63

    • Senior Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    8,890

    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    Its kinda stereotyping and generalizing to look at a character and make assumptions about her self-view and personality based on appearance.
    That is not what is happening here.


    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    By drawing conclusions about characters based on superficial appearance...
    No conclusions are being drawn, and the redesigned elements are anything but superficial; they are blatant, obvious, and fundamental to the entire character. Disney Consumer Products has carefully and consciously selected specific design elements for the character so as to unambiguously communicate a predetermined self-view and personality. It is a matter of redesigning a product for a repurpose, using design elements that communicate clearly and instantly in a specific consumer-culture context.
    Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 05-14-2013 at 12:58 PM.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  4. #64

    • Banned User
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1,268

    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    That is not what is happening here. Disney Consumer Products has carefully and consciously selected specific design elements for the character so as to unambiguously communicate a predetermined self-view and personality. It is a matter of redesigning a product for a repurpose, using design elements that communicate in a specific consumer-culture context.
    I am saying that you are stereotyping the new Merida. As CNN pointed out, "Babes" can be role models too, it's not a choice between being a leader and being pretty. You can't say anything about the New Merida's personality or world view as she hasn't opened her mouth yet.

    It's kinda like those mean kids, girls and boys, who see a girl wearing make-up and call her a slut behind her back. There are women who hate other women who are perceived as being glamorous.

  5. #65

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    715

    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    CNN has an opinion article, titled "Babes" can be worthwhile role models, too

    Opinion: 'Babes' can be worthwhile role models, too - CNN.com

    Disney was quickly taken to task by many, including the film's writer and co-director Brenda Chapman, who called the makeover a "blatantly sexist marketing move based on money" that strips the character of her place as a "better, stronger role model ... something of substance, not just a pretty face that waits around for romance." The implication, of course, being that pretty girls can't be role models. Or have substance.

    and . . .

    Disney's Princess Merida doesn't take away from the positive message that "Brave" put forth: Lipstick or no, she's still the same girl inside. But Chapman's argument does -- by bringing the focus back to Merida's looks in a way that's exclusionary of all else.

    New Merida hasn't opened her mouth yet, but everybody is making all of these assumptions.

    The fact is that "babes" can be worthwhile role models, too, and no less so than those women whose looks are more rough and tumble. What's sexist, polarizing -- and most damaging -- is the suggestion that women can be only one or the other: pretty or powerful. Vulnerable or strong. Pink wearing or substantive. These are incorrect messages that serve to confuse and contain. Instead, the message should be about how these days, women can be many things. Girls -- and boys -- are listening.
    Well, of course, attractive women can and should be respected in the work place and held up as role models for their power.

    It's when women in the media are valued for looks alone (are over-sexualized, overly made up or very thin) that leads to the development of poor body image in little girls.

    The point is that if Merida had always looked like she does now, I doubt there would be an issue.

    The problem here is they changed her, sending a direct message to little girls that Merida's lips weren't full enough, her waist wasn't thin enough, her breasts weren't full enough, her eye shape wasn't pretty enough, her dress wasn't revealing enough, she wasn't wearing enough makeup, etc.

  6. #66

    • Senior Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    8,890

    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    Quote Originally Posted by The First Star View Post
    ...The problem here is they changed her, sending a direct message to little girls that Merida's lips weren't full enough, her waist wasn't thin enough, her breasts weren't full enough, her eye shape wasn't pretty enough, her dress wasn't revealing enough, she wasn't wearing enough makeup, etc.
    Exactly.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  7. #67

    • Banned User
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1,268

    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    Quote Originally Posted by The First Star View Post
    Well, of course, attractive women can and should be respected in the work place and held up as role models for their power.

    It's when women in the media are valued for looks alone (are over-sexualized, overly made up or very thin) that leads to the development of poor body image in little girls.

    The point is that if Merida had always looked like she does now, I doubt there would be an issue.

    The problem here is they changed her, sending a direct message to little girls that Merida's lips weren't full enough, her waist wasn't thin enough, her breasts weren't full enough, her eye shape wasn't pretty enough, her dress wasn't revealing enough, she wasn't wearing enough makeup, etc.
    If you compare the two Meridas, the new one looks older and was made more cartoony, I guess is the word, as if she was an older 2-D Merida.

    http://media-social.s-msn.com/images...013_UL_300.jpg

    Her breasts don't look bigger.
    Her lips don't look fuller, though they do have lipstick on.
    Her big bushy eyebrows weren't touched.
    Maybe very slightly thinner.

    All in all, new Merida's biggest change is that she looks older and is wearing make-up.

    The other princesses look different, and I won't say the change is positive and that it's not targeted towards tweens, but it's not like the old Merida wasn't good looking too.

  8. #68

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    715

    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    ...Her breasts don't look bigger.
    Her lips don't look fuller, though they do have lipstick on.
    Her big bushy eyebrows weren't touched.
    Maybe very slightly thinner.

    All in all, new Merida's biggest change is that she looks older and is wearing make-up.
    I'd day the biggest change is her thinner waist, giving her a more exaggerated hourglass figure.

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    The other princesses look different, and I won't say the change is positive and that it's not targeted towards tweens, but it's not like the old Merida wasn't good looking too.
    Then why change her? The subtle message that girls are internalizing is that something was wrong and had to be fixed.

  9. #69

    • враг народа
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    14,040
    Blog Entries
    3

    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    Obviously, the design style of Merida from Brave, a Pixar movie, is different from ALL the other princesses (outside of weight/attitude, there is an Up! look to Merida). So, yes, regular Merida wouldn't match as she is stylistically different. They had to obviously make some changes. It would be like trying to put a Peanuts character in the world of Tangled, different styles.
    There are plenty of artists out there who redraw characters in different styles while retaining their personality. I think the Pocket Princess comics do a good job.

  10. #70

    • Banned User
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1,268

    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    Quote Originally Posted by The First Star View Post
    I'd day the biggest change is her thinner waist, giving her a more exaggerated hourglass figure.



    Then why change her? The subtle message that girls are internalizing is that something was wrong and had to be fixed.
    That's a good point, obviously old Merida has a lot of fans, and I sure wouldn't want to see a Brave 2 that was 2-D, though I'd be ok with an older Merida if there was a good story.

    I think the problem is that Rapunzel and Tianna, (and the two princesses in Frozen), were made to be incorporate into the princess line stylistically. If you look at every Disney princess from Sleeping Beauty to Rapunzel, they all have a certain style . . . Merida is Pixar's sole princess, and she has a Charlie Brown/Mary Blair style that looks like she is in a different universe from the other princesses. Merida is totally CGI, and Tiana and Rapunzel are made to look like they are old school animated princesses. Hard to mix these styles, i.e. translate Merida to 2-D. They had to make some slight changes, just so Merida doesn't stick out like a sore thumb on the Disney princess page, but they did go too far with the waist and eyes, I guess.

  11. #71

    • Disneyland History Lover
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Chula Vista, CA
    Posts
    1,958

    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    I am saying that you are stereotyping the new Merida. As CNN pointed out, "Babes" can be role models too, it's not a choice between being a leader and being pretty. You can't say anything about the New Merida's personality or world view as she hasn't opened her mouth yet.

    It's kinda like those mean kids, girls and boys, who see a girl wearing make-up and call her a slut behind her back. There are women who hate other women who are perceived as being glamorous.
    I don't believe anyone in this thread has said that babes cannot be role models or that beautiful women cannot be held up as being leaders. I don't get where this is coming from. Yet again, I believe any woman can hold their own if they really want to. Looks, makeup, or hair do not matter. You are trying to get a point across that nobody is disputing. The gripe with this Disney situation is that they seem to be implying that to be a Disney Princess, you must be slimmed down and have more perfect looking features. This contrasts with what Merida was to begin with. She wasn't perfect and she was a bit atypical. The point Disney seems to be driving is that such features are not enough to be what their ideal of a true Disney Princess must be.

  12. #72

    • Banned User
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1,268

    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    There are plenty of artists out there who redraw characters in different styles while retaining their personality. I think the Pocket Princess comics do a good job.
    Personality isn't the same as external appearance. Unless you believe that identical twins have identical personalities and you can gauge a person's personality by looking at their picture.

  13. #73

    • Senior Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    8,890

    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    Personality isn't the same as external appearance. Unless you believe that identical twins have identical personalities and you can gauge a person's personality by looking at their picture.
    The art of animation character design is the art of projecting personality through design. The original animation characters were voiceless; to this day "the personality in the still drawing" is key to making a character's personality read. The design of the revised "Merida" clearly communicates a sultry sexuality that was neither part of the original Merida nor of the world of her film. The revised "Merida" blatantly comes from the modern world of media marketing glamorous babes. Personality-via-design of an animated character is why the original Merida worked so well, and why the Consumer Products artifice that replaced her is so pathetic.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  14. #74

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    849

    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    I can see that many wanted Merida to be a sort of champion for women's rights. True that she'd didn't want to go with the arranged marriage, but what I got out of the film was the rebellious teenager and this massive power struggle with her mom, and lots of great action sequences with bears. The whole mess with the bears was Merida's doing as she sort of fell in with the bad crowd, i.e. a witch who created a monster bear to kill people just to teach him a lesson!

    As anybody who has raised girls knows, they eventually want to experiment with make-up and you have to set limits. There are tons of make-up tutorials for Disney princesses online and somehow our six year knows about them and begs to watch them and we have to say no, or only for a minute and explain she is too old to put on make-up.

    If she does want to dress up as Merida on Halloween with a small amount of make-up, a frilly dress, maybe a bow, then there are a lot worse princesses to dress up as, yes?

    I don't necessarily agree with the "plastic surgery", but if Merida wants to lose a couple pounds by riding off on her horse and doing archery, then that would make sense as she seems to have gotten her freedom!, though Merida's change in waist seems small, and she was never overweight in the film.
    What I got out of the movie was compromise: a girl who wanted to do whatever she wanted that was completely opposite to what her mother expected of her. In the end both came to realize that both things were important. Tradition, behavior, adulthood, marriage all became things that Merida would eventually do on her own terms with her own independent way. I think the new look sort of goes along with that.
    In the quest for quality, I have no problem with the characters footing the bill.

  15. #75

    • Banned User
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1,268

    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    The art of animation character design is the art of projecting personality through design. The original animation characters were voiceless; to this day "the personality in the still drawing" is key to making a character's personality read. The design of the revised "Merida" clearly communicates a sultry sexuality that was neither part of the original Merida nor of the world of her film. The revised "Merida" blatantly comes from the modern world of media marketing glamorous babes. Personality-via-design of an animated character is why the original Merida worked so well, and why the Consumer Products artifice that replaced her is so pathetic.
    Animation uses a variety of character expressions and movements and, more importantly, actions to elucidate personality. If you've never seen beauty and the beast you can't look at a picture of Gaston smiling normally and say whether he is, or isn't, the villain. Some animated characters are hiding their true personality, unknown to even the audience.

    Merida could easily be reprogrammed to be a villain, using the same CGI body and red frizzly hair.

    You really are reading way too much into Merida. If you sat down at the mall could look at random people and deduce their personality based on their appearance? Maybe you could pick out the girls with a lot of make-up as being "sultry", I wonder if that is the entymology of the word slut?

    Modern animation doesn't rely upon old unjust stereotypes, like the evil Jewish peddler seen in early Disney cartoons, but makes a hero out of a senior citizen, and a chef out of a rat. Don't judge a book by its cover, one of life's basic lessons.

    I don't think that the new princesses are sultry, I think they are kinda like teens playing make-up, in a goofy sort of way, makes them more approachable to little girls. One 7 year old girl said that the new Merida looks "evil" perhaps as she (or Disney in this case), has altered her appearance from what she was . . . as if she a fugitive or something. People see different things in the new princesses.
    Last edited by chesirecat; 05-14-2013 at 02:44 PM.

Page 5 of 8 FirstFirst ... 2345678 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 15
    Last Post: 12-11-2007, 10:52 PM
  2. Changing Disney For The Better
    By MsSarah in forum MiceChat Main Lounge
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-14-2007, 05:30 PM
  3. Disney's changing world- Miami Herald- 7/17/05
    By dramaqueen in forum MiceChat News Archive
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-18-2005, 02:05 PM
  4. Visited Downtown Disney for the first time
    By Athlonacon in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-12-2005, 07:34 AM
  5. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-24-2005, 07:43 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •