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  1. #76

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    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    I wish they hadn't made Merida an official Disney princess for this very reason. She's not the type of princess that fits for the intended purposes of Disney Princess marketing. I also hate that they semi-include Mulan in this line for the same reason. In regards to these two characters, Disney has completely miss the point as to why they should not be included in the line.

    I know that they are both strong characters that could help even out the balance in comparison to other characters but the marketing of the line has lacked bringing the characters' personalities into the mix. It's mostly about the looks and dresses. If it was about the personality, Merida and Mulan would fit.
    Toonaspie: I have Asperger's. I like cartoons. Toonaspie!

  2. #77

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    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    Quote Originally Posted by toonaspie View Post
    I wish they hadn't made Merida an official Disney princess for this very reason. She's not the type of princess that fits for the intended purposes of Disney Princess marketing. I also hate that they semi-include Mulan in this line for the same reason. In regards to these two characters, Disney has completely miss the point as to why they should not be included in the line.

    I know that they are both strong characters that could help even out the balance in comparison to other characters but the marketing of the line has lacked bringing the characters' personalities into the mix. It's mostly about the looks and dresses. If it was about the personality, Merida and Mulan would fit.

    I think Merida should be a Disney princess, but I also think it is OK if she has makeup (though I'd say change her waist back to normal please). I would wager that the vast majority of girls, from all walks of life, on occasion dress up fancy with make-up, no need to restrict Merida and make her always look "desheveled" as one person put it. The same girl who hunts with her dad, plays softball, maybe be fine with dressing up for the prom.

  3. #78

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    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    Blame Hollywood. Merida got some work done after cashing that big check from Pixar. It happens to the best of them.

  4. #79

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    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    Don't want your girls to buy into this crap? Then don't buy then these news toys...seems simple but more then half of America's parents have no clue how to parent

  5. #80

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    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    Quote Originally Posted by JerrodDRagon View Post
    Don't want your girls to buy into this crap? Then don't buy then these news toys...seems simple but more then half of America's parents have no clue how to parent
    I don't see how some people can think its easier to change the world than to try and positively influence a child's view on the world.
    In the quest for quality, I have no problem with the characters footing the bill.

  6. #81

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    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    Quote Originally Posted by The First Star View Post
    Then why change her? The subtle message that girls are internalizing is that something was wrong and had to be fixed.
    Exactly.

    Nobody is saying that pretty girls must necessarily be stupid. What this does send out, though, is that even if you're smart, capable, and strong, it's still not enough. Ya still got to be pretty. And flirt with boys.

    That's the part that little girls internalize. And that's the part that I think has so many of us riled.
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  7. #82

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    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charac

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    Its kinda stereotyping and generalizing to look at a character and make assumptions about her self-view and personality based on appearance. By drawing conclusions about characters based on superficial appearance...
    There is nothing more to the new Merida than her appearance. That's all we've got.

  8. #83

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    Re: Disney gives Brave's Merida a makeover, and mom's aren't happy about it

    Quote Originally Posted by jcruise86 View Post
    "The sole influence"? Troll much?

    Fox or MSNBC fan? That might sound insulting to a free thinker, but your post reminded me of the kind of hyperbole and mischaracterization promoted by those networks.

    Has anyone EVER said that one fictional character was the sole role model for their kids? Evidence please.

    I did like how Merida continued the recent Mulan-like bravery and determination that my daughter could emulate, but they are just two among many heroes I've exposed her to.

    It disturbs me how sleazy Disney's marketeers can be. Did they even see this film?
    This has been one of my issues with the "Princess" Brand. Putting over-sexualized images of the princesses on the (Typically pink) products renders the Classic Disney Films these characters appear in to the average consumer to be "Little Girls Movies tailored for the Barbie crowd" rather than the wide general audience Walt & Co made it for and it hurts these films and the "Disney" name in the eyes of the general public.
    Last edited by HMF; 05-14-2013 at 08:32 PM.

  9. #84

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    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    Quote Originally Posted by The First Star View Post
    . . . The problem here is they changed her, sending a direct message to little girls that Merida's lips weren't full enough, her waist wasn't thin enough, her breasts weren't full enough, her eye shape wasn't pretty enough, her dress wasn't revealing enough, she wasn't wearing enough makeup, etc.
    Good quote, First Star! There are a lot of eloquent posts on this thread.

  10. #85

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    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinrar View Post
    I don't see how some people can think its easier to change the world than to try and positively influence a child's view on the world.
    Not buying these toys is easy, and for some reason of another parents have a hard time talking to there kids about sex, drugs and well even princesses

    Just sit down and talk to them about why they like princesses and make sure they like them for the right reasons

  11. #86

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    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    "Westernized" isn't the word for it. Want the "Barbie bits" design recipe for Merida's makeover? Add a little fullness to the breasts. Narrow the waist, which accents the breasts and hips. Pull the dress off the shoulders and 'wayyy lower the neckline; add a brightly contrasting V-shaped accent to the dress between the breasts to suggest cleavage and draw the eye to the breasts. Widen the leather sash around the hips and tilt it at a rakish angle that accents the hips even more; decorate it with a brightly contrasting medallion that pulls the eye to the hips. Sway the dress in feminine curves to imply side-thrust of the hips and to help lead the eye to the hips. Almond-ize the eye shape and add makeup; tilt the eyes to create a V-shape that directs the viewer down the nose to the fuller, redder, more-strongly-contrasting-with-the-face lips. Shorten the neck slightly to lose the geekiness and to make a stronger thru-line from lips to cleavage. Give the hair a fashion magazine treatment that says "hot model." Finally, strike a studio publicity-style pose that says "hot movie actress."

    Studio publicity departments and movie marketers have been calling this approach "lips, tits & hips" since at least the 1940s, and a more-or-less G-rated version of it is exactly what Disney did to Merida.
    Exactly.

  12. #87

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    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    Quote Originally Posted by alphabassetgrrl View Post
    Exactly.

    Nobody is saying that pretty girls must necessarily be stupid. What this does send out, though, is that even if you're smart, capable, and strong, it's still not enough. Ya still got to be pretty. And flirt with boys.

    That's the part that little girls internalize. And that's the part that I think has so many of us riled.
    Exactly. There seem to be a few in this thread that are missing the point or misunderstanding the issue. To recap:

    1. Nothing's wrong with makeup.
    2. Nothing's wrong with sparkly dresses.
    3. Nothing's wrong with girls who like those things.
    4. Intelligence and personality are not gauged through physical appearance and beauty.
    5. There IS something wrong with insisting that every character has to fit a certain mold.
    6. There's something very wrong with pressing that mold onto a character who doesn't fit it.

    Here's one other thing, though: we've been saying they made Merida "pretty." Merida has ALWAYS been pretty. There are all sorts of different standards of beauty. Was Merida pretty in the stylized Hollywood way? No. Does that mean she wasn't pretty all on her own, in her own way? No. Did girls like the way Merida looked? Considering how many girls in Merida dresses, costumes and wigs I still see at the park, I would guess the answer to that question is a resounding yes.

    Disney had an opportunity to send the message "there are all sorts of beauty and all sorts of girls can be princesses!" Instead they're saying "there's only one type of acceptable princess beauty, so Barbie Up, Merida."

    Disney fails at this next to other companies, by the way. As much as we knock Barbie now, in the 1990s the company was very inclusive. They had dolls with glasses and dolls with wheelchairs and they were all put out there as being beautiful. They made a Rosie O'Donnell doll and made a larger body for her; they didn't just plunk her head on a standard Barbie body.

    American Girl is another great example. The dolls, both the characters and the American Girl Today, come in a wide variety of ethnic backgrounds, facial types, hair and eye colors and shapes, etc. You can get dolls with glasses, crutches, wheelchairs, etc. You can get little makeup, hair and nail kits for your dolls. And the message is "you are ALL fabulous."

    Disney, by contrast? Every princess apparently has to come off the same assembly line. They had a chance to change that here and oh, did they fail.

  13. #88

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    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    Quote Originally Posted by JerrodDRagon View Post
    Not buying these toys is easy, and for some reason of another parents have a hard time talking to there kids about sex, drugs and well even princesses

    Just sit down and talk to them about why they like princesses and make sure they like them for the right reasons

    Exactly. Disney isn't obligated to make their characters into role models or self esteem boosters. Just like celebrities aren't obligated to BE role models. Its crazy that parents will complain, protest, and sign petitions when all they have to do is talk to their kids and explain that Merida is just as strong regardless of how her looks may change and that you never have to feel obligated to change your appearance for anyone but yourself.

    Same thing with sex in the media. Why can europe handle it but the US always flips out? I suppose over there, children are taught to respect and love themselves regardless of whats on TV. Why is that so hard over here?

    We can't let TV and movies raise our children. No amount of good role models in the media is ever going to make that sort of parenting ok.
    In the quest for quality, I have no problem with the characters footing the bill.

  14. #89

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    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinrar View Post
    Same thing with sex in the media. Why can europe handle it but the US always flips out? I suppose over there, children are taught to respect and love themselves regardless of whats on TV. Why is that so hard over here?

    We can't let TV and movies raise our children. No amount of good role models in the media is ever going to make that sort of parenting ok.
    You're right, but here's the problem. There's media saturation and there's constant exposure. I do think that as a parent it's up to you to decide what your kid watches, and it's also up to you to teach them to think for themselves and develop their own sense of confidence. Here are three issues, though:

    1. The Princesses ARE held up as role models/ideals.
    2. Books, films and toys are often used as teaching tools.
    3. Regardless of what a kid learns at home, the constant media saturation can get to a child. Okay, you don't let them see Disney's films. They go to parties where the princesses are on party favors. They go to Disneyland. They go out on Halloween. And when they see the same messages over and over again it does stick.

    As an example, look up the famous Clark Doll Test. The testers showed two dolls to African-American children: one that was black and one that was white. The kids consistently picked the white doll as the "good, nice" one and the black doll as the one that was "bad."

    These were not children who were being told they were bad, or that they were not as good as white children. They were kids that were absorbing all the messages they saw around them.

    They repeated this experiment in 2006. The results were the same.

    So yes, the images kids see, and the way the characters are projected, do count. They count a lot.
    Last edited by Malina; 05-15-2013 at 07:13 AM.

  15. #90

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    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    You're right, but here's the problem. There's media saturation and there's constant exposure. I do think that as a parent it's up to you to decide what your kid watches, and it's also up to you to teach them to think for themselves and develop their own sense of confidence. Here are three issues, though:

    1. The Princesses ARE held up as role models/ideals.
    2. Books, films and toys are often used as teaching tools.
    3. Regardless of what a kid learns at home, the constant media saturation can get to a child. Okay, you don't let them see Disney's films. They go to parties where the princesses are on party favors. They go to Disneyland. They go out on Halloween. And when they see the same messages over and over again it does stick.

    As an example, look up the famous Clark Doll Test. The testers showed two dolls to African-American children: one that was black and one that was white. The kids consistently picked the white doll as the "good, nice" one and the black doll as the one that was "bad."

    These were not children who were being told they were bad, or that they were not as good as white children. They were kids that were absorbing all the messages they saw around them.

    They repeated this experiment in 2006. The results were the same.

    So yes, the images kids see, and the way the characters are projected, do count. They count a lot.
    That study is flawed as is does not account for a pretty important variable... one that many people here are forgetting: Parents and other centers of influence have (or should anyways) a MUCH greater impact on the acceptable role models for kids. It's sort of the same argument as trying to teach your kid to eat healthy and who is to blame for fat kids. Is it the evil corporation that sells the Big Mac, or is it the dumb consumer who eats it??

    It is not the responsibility of a corporation to dictate who the role models of our youth should be. And if they are to be accountable, we need to vote with our $$, but judging on how well this stuff sells it will be an uphill battle.
    Last edited by Meville; 05-15-2013 at 08:20 AM.

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