Page 7 of 8 FirstFirst ... 45678 LastLast
Results 91 to 105 of 117
  1. #91

    •   
    • Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    2,593

    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    Quote Originally Posted by Meville View Post
    That study is flawed as is does not account for a pretty important variable... one that many people here are forgetting: Parents and other centers of influence have (or should anyways) a MUCH greater impact on the acceptable role models for kids. It's sort of the same argument as trying to teach your kid to eat healthy and who is to blame for fat kids. Is it the evil corporation that sells the Big Mac, or is it the dumb consumer who eats it??

    It is not the responsibility of a corporation to dictate who the role models of our youth should be. And if they are to be accountable, we need to vote with our $$, but judging on how well this stuff sells it will be an uphill battle.
    Apples and oranges, with the comparison to McDonald's. Do you really think the kids in that study were constantly being told by their parents that they were bad, not as nice etc. because of their race? Or do you think it's something they might have picked up from the messages they saw around them, including the way African Americans were portrayed in the media at the time (the original studies were done in 1939 and the 1950s)?

    When Tiana came out there were media reports that said that African American girls were realizing for the first time that they too could be princesses and identify with the Disney princess line. Do you think those girls were being told by their parents, "nope, you can't be a princess because of your ethnicity?" Likelier those girls were told over and over again "you can be ANYTHING you want to be," and they didn't believe it because they didn't see proof: there weren't any African-American princesses up there in the Disney pantheon.

    Parents have the greatest responsibility but unless you want to keep your kid in a vacuum, homeschool them and never let them leave the house, interact with other people and get exposed to any sort of media they are going to be influenced, be it subliminally or overtly, by what they see. How well they can stand it depends on how well you've taught them - but on the other hand when they are constantly bombarded with negative images those will stick with them.

    How do you think brainwashing works? They repeat the same things over and over again. Why does propaganda work? For the same reason, and it reels in intelligent, critical thinkers.

    We learn to normalize what we see every day. We learn to identify what we don't see often as being outside of the norm and, perhaps, inferior. One of the reasons there's been a push to include people with disabilities in media, toys, books, etc. is so non-disabled will see them as normal and not think of them as people to fear, hate, or see as being abnormal. Ditto with non-traditional families, the LGBT community, different ethnicity and religions, etc.

    And the princesses are targeted to a very specific and very impressionable age group; they're used as teaching tools and they are held up with role models. There's a reason that responsible children's media groups, like Sesame Street, have psychologists on staff: children have a way of processing and rationalizing things that is very different from adults. The responsibility when you are dealing with children's media vs. adults is greater.

    One bit of that McDonald's comparison that does work: if your kid eats Big Macs every day and learns that they are the proper food, they will have issues. If your kid learns to eat healthy and has a Big Mac every once in a while as a special treat, it's not going to kill them. Moderation is important.

    Likewise, with the Princess line: If your kid thinks that every single princess or attractive woman has to look a specific way or fit a specific mold, she will have problems. If your kid learns to appreciate different types of beauty and diversity, and can appreciate the sparkly pageant queens and the Meridas of the world as both being special, she will do a lot better. Especially if she grows up to look more like Merida than Barbie.

    And this is where Disney has failed - they are supporting the former and not the latter.
    Last edited by Malina; 05-15-2013 at 10:29 AM.

  2. #92

    •   
    • Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    2,593

    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    The sad thing, also, is that there have been some viable 2D images of Merida floating around for ages. Any one of these could have been used instead of what Disney did.

    Name:  8151122612_10cd874c4d_z.jpg
Views: 124
Size:  89.3 KB

    Name:  14130925.jpg
Views: 118
Size:  33.9 KB

    Name:  Brave-Comic-brave-32030282-648-392.jpg
Views: 126
Size:  205.6 KB

  3. #93

    • New Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Pleasanton, CA
    Posts
    27

    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    I'm sorry but I think the princesses (and all characters) should look like they did in their movies. Why does marketing think they are better than animation artists who earned all those awards Disney is famous for? I loved the movie so I want the character to look like the one I love in the movie....changing and updates don't make sense...if you want them to age up then make a movie where they do it and then you can change how they look...otherwise it doesn't make sense.
    Oh... I just love happy endings.

  4. #94

    • враг народа
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    13,910
    Blog Entries
    3

    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    To expand on Malina's last post, Pixar has drawings of Merida that could have been used as a basis. It's why I dot understand why Consumer Producs Rapunzel looks so off model. Walt Disney Animation Studios has released on model hand drawings of Rapunzel.

  5. #95

    • I am number 4 of 999
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,090

    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    I'm not reading through the current 7 pages to see if this was touched upon: "a prissy, pink-wearing princess who’s waiting for her knight in shining armor to charge through the castle door."

    Which Disney Princess was that, exactly? And the author mentioned Merida "kicking Cinderella's butt". Didn't Cinderella already get abused enough before her happy ending?
    It's actually "Cars Land", not "Carsland".

  6. #96

    •   
    • Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    2,593

    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    Quote Originally Posted by ghosty4 View Post
    I'm not reading through the current 7 pages to see if this was touched upon: "a prissy, pink-wearing princess who’s waiting for her knight in shining armor to charge through the castle door."

    Which Disney Princess was that, exactly? And the author mentioned Merida "kicking Cinderella's butt". Didn't Cinderella already get abused enough before her happy ending?
    I don't know if that's said properly, really, and I don't think it was discussed here, but the general consensus is that Merida has more agency and control over her destiny than the old-school princesses such as Snow White (whose signature song IS "Someday My Prince Will Come"), Sleeping Beauty (who spends the entire film just doing what people tell her to do, including going along with it when the fairies tell her "hey, you're betrothed to a total stranger!") and Cinderella (who is rescued by a Fairy Godmother and then the prince). And unlike some of the newer ones, like Ariel, her story doesn't revolve around getting the guy.
    Merida looks like this. Not a Barbie doll!

  7. #97

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    812

    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    I don't remember the last time a Disney/Pixar character was so drastically overhauled.
    All of the princesses have been victimized in this way to some degree. I recall that Snow White was changed at least as drastically during a 1990s marketing push (sometime following her movie's last theatrical reissue), in which the shape of her face, her hair style, and even her eye color were changed to make her look more stereotypically glamorous--she was barely recognizable. Disney's marketing thankfully backed away from that redesign entirely, although her image has again been altered in recent years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    And sexism in society IS an issue - Chapman's comments are 100% dead on. If you're a woman in America (or elsewhere) you're constantly dealing with it, and there's no reason she shouldn't call attention to it.
    Sexism is always a general issue in every society, and in addition it works both ways. For example, Chapman clearly implied that she had a problem with being replaced as director by a man--not necessarily because he was a hack (and his reputation would suggest otherwise), but specifically because of his gender. Did she feel that only a woman could have successfully directed this movie?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    In point of fact the design changes are much more numerous and all-encompassing, as I noted in my previous post. The Consumer Products "Barbified" Merida is a different character whose design details and attitude clearly communicate a different personality, age and self view. It is precisely that "I'm glamorous and sultry" self view, absent from the original Merida, which Disney has added; it is at the core of the Consumer Products design aesthetic for the Disney Princess line.
    This has hurt all of the princesses, in my opinion, albeit some more than others. Their marketing versions all give a very different impression from the original characters in the movies, and I've long expressed a desire for Disney to stop ruining these characters. Now that the issue has the public's attention and ire, I don't think that it should stop with Merida--the whole princess marketing thing has gone way overboard.

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    Walt Disney Consumer Products initiated the discussion when they changed Merida's look so that she would fit in with the other recently redesigned Princesses. She had to look different in order to be a true Disney Princess.
    What's wrong with being different from the others? This goes for each of the princesses.

    Quote Originally Posted by The First Star View Post
    The point is that if Merida had always looked like she does now, I doubt there would be an issue.

    The problem here is they changed her, sending a direct message to little girls that Merida's lips weren't full enough, her waist wasn't thin enough, her breasts weren't full enough, her eye shape wasn't pretty enough, her dress wasn't revealing enough, she wasn't wearing enough makeup, etc.
    Nail on the head there--the fact that she was changed at all is the issue, and how she was changed tells us what their goals are (aside from making money, which they'd make just as much of anyway without the changes).

    Quote Originally Posted by toonaspie View Post
    I wish they hadn't made Merida an official Disney princess for this very reason. She's not the type of princess that fits for the intended purposes of Disney Princess marketing. I also hate that they semi-include Mulan in this line for the same reason. In regards to these two characters, Disney has completely miss the point as to why they should not be included in the line.
    It's not just Merida and Mulan, either. Most if not all of the Disney princesses are not about glamor, and are more relatable when they are simply being themselves. Merida is being singled out now perhaps because she is a tomboy in some respects, and didn't gussy up quite as much as most of the others did at some point during their movies, which makes it all the more noticeable, but she is hardly alone in having been changed for the worse by marketing. They've all been bent to fit the mold of what marketing--not the creators--think a princess should be like, which in turn is based on what they think little girls want.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    Here's one other thing, though: we've been saying they made Merida "pretty." Merida has ALWAYS been pretty. There are all sorts of different standards of beauty. Was Merida pretty in the stylized Hollywood way? No. Does that mean she wasn't pretty all on her own, in her own way? No. Did girls like the way Merida looked? Considering how many girls in Merida dresses, costumes and wigs I still see at the park, I would guess the answer to that question is a resounding yes.
    Does Merida have to be pretty at all, though? I'm not trying to imply that is what you meant, I'm just taking what you said one step farther. Girls don't have to consider Merida pretty in order to like her, and to want to dress up and look like her in order to pretend to be her.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    Disney had an opportunity to send the message "there are all sorts of beauty and all sorts of girls can be princesses!" Instead they're saying "there's only one type of acceptable princess beauty, so Barbie Up, Merida."
    That's what they're saying, alright, although from their point of view it may just be that this is what they believe would sell the best. I think this is silly because the characters in the movies are well-liked as it is, and should be maintained for artistic integrity as well as their inherent marketability. The problem may well boil down to marketers having the same problem that physicians and elected politicians often have: they always feel that they need to do something in order to prove themselves, when in fact doing nothing would have been the best course of action.
    Last edited by Robert Cook; 05-16-2013 at 01:23 PM.

  8. #98

    • Senior Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    8,890

    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Cook View Post
    ...This has hurt all of the princesses, in my opinion, albeit some more than others. Their marketing versions all give a very different impression from the original characters in the movies, and I've long expressed a desire for Disney to stop ruining these characters. Now that the issue has the public's attention and ire, I don't think that it should stop with Merida--the whole princess marketing thing has gone way overboard.
    Well said.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  9. #99

    • MiceChat Round-Up Crew
    • Nikon +Disneyland = :)
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    12.5 minutes from Disneyland
    Posts
    14,005
    Blog Entries
    9

    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    Somebody probably already touched on this, but it really looks like some marketing genius approved this redesign without running it past anyone at Pixar. I get the feeling that the people at Pixar, especially Lasseter, are very protective of their characters. If Chapman was this ticked off, it really sounds as if they didn't run this design past Pixar at all. I can't recall ANY other Pixar characters who have been altered to this degree, i.e. facial features. Mrs Incredible may not have been a princess, but she went straight through marketing without getting new cheekbones. I was assuming that all product development for Pixar was coming from the Pixar side but there is NOTHING in this new design that even vaguely resembles a Pixar character. So....who is at the bottom of this? And why is Pixar ceding control over their characters to Disney marketing?

  10. #100

    • Senior Member
    • Online

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    4,648

    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    Merida was pretty. As is. She doesn't have to be "stereotypically" girly to be pretty. And she doesn't need to be changed to be pretty.

    Nor is "pretty" the highest achievement a woman can achieve. Sure, it's a great asset, but dude. There is so much more to being a woman.

    Real women come in lots of varieties, there's not just one way to be pretty, in spite of what the media seem to think.

    Let her be the tomboy. With a teen figure. Really. It's cool.
    I pledge allegiance to the Earth, one planet, many gods, and to the universe in which she spins.

  11. #101

    • MiceChat Round-Up Crew
    • Nikon +Disneyland = :)
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    12.5 minutes from Disneyland
    Posts
    14,005
    Blog Entries
    9

    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    Tonight, Jon Stewart, (although typically crass), just asked my question on his show. Summary "This character is from PIXAR, not DISNEY. That's why Mrs Incredible looks like this, and not THIS." (Photo of Mrs Incredible in a dress.) Speaking to Disney: "We as parents, have an arrangement. We stick them in front of the TV and YOU educate them. Expecting US to do that is just not going to work." (Paraphrased)

  12. #102

    • Senior Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    8,890

    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    The management of Disney Corp once again demonstrates that when Consumer Products talks, everyone else walks.

    L.A. Times: Disney's sexier, skinnier Merida to stay, despite protests


    "Despite an online petition that garnered over 200,000 signatures protesting the re-imagining of Pixar's "Brave" heroine Merida, Disney has no intention of abandoning its sexier version of the Scottish archer.

    "The modified Merida was created specifically to welcome the character into the company's princess collection. And according to a Disney representative on Wednesday, the image of Merida that sparked this maelstrom is part of a limited run of products including backpacks and pajamas. But images of the original Merida will also be available on consumer products, the Disney representative said.

    "The version causing the outrage envisions the cartoon character with a much more tamed mane of red curls, a plunging neckline, a narrowed waistline and an angled face. She's also sporting eyeliner and not showing off her trademark bow and arrow...."


    The L.A. Times story included a poll:


    Was Disney wrong to change the look
    of this Pixar princess?


    Yes: 87%
    No: 13%



    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  13. #103

    • New Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    30

    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    Yeah, I find the changes a little silly- I didn't mind the minor redesigns of the Disney Princesses (most of them look the same but with sparklier dresses and shinier hair, and I like Cinderella's new hair- which I'm aware is sacrilegious but I think it's prettier , but Merida seems oddly feminized considering what she was in the movie. And I'm not one to criticize girly-girls- it's an insult to women who PREFER to be more feminine- but it's just that Merida is like the only one of the TEN that is a tomboy, so it's weird to see her all girlified.

    What's sad is that I get WHY it was done- Disney has no intentions of making her a worse role model or ruining Pixar's intentions... they just wanted a prettier doll/toy/dress to sell to children so that it would sell better. And since Merida is cute in a kiddie way with giant hair and big round eyes, she "needed" to be made to look like all the other Princesses (most of whom have similar general features, save Pocahontas, who I should point out is the least popular). It's more blind profit-seeking and short-sighted thinking as much as anything.

    What I don't get is how they didn't see the protests COMING- I mean, this is a company that gets regularly made fun of for milking people dry of their money, promoting everything ad nauseum, and reflecting corporate interests, and they didn't see that altering an existing character (a POPULAR one, no less) would be criticized?

    While I think the new design is pretty, and possibly fitting an older Merida (her mom IS a hottie, remember- Merida will probably be a looker when she gets older on the same level), it just isn't the character right now. It looks like they just aged her by a bit and made her prettier and shinier. Ironically, they gave her a look that she'd have REJECTED in "Brave".

    I don't think the new design is that much skinnier (Merida wasn't exactly beefy), but she's got curves and the hourglass shape- isn't Merida supposed to be 12 or 13? This Merida is EASILY fifteen-to-sixteen, which is a big leap for a child.
    Last edited by Jabroniville; 05-17-2013 at 02:36 AM.

  14. #104

    • Senior Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    8,890

    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    Quote Originally Posted by Jabroniville View Post
    What I don't get is how they didn't see the protests COMING- I mean, this is a company that gets regularly made fun of for milking people dry of their money, promoting everything ad nauseum, and reflecting corporate interests, and they didn't see that altering an existing character (a POPULAR one, no less) would be criticized?
    It's impossible to overestimate the My-Way-Or-The-Highway groupthink that dominates Disney's decision making machinery. They'll spend millions on focus groups and consumer surveys and still remain clueless to anything outside management's mosh pit. Opinions vary about which division is the most arrogant, but you won't lose money if you put your bet on Consumer Products.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  15. #105

    • враг народа
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    13,910
    Blog Entries
    3

    Re: Brave creator criticizes Disney for changing Merida into a weaker, sexier charact

    Consumer Products had to change Merida's appearance sooner than later lest she undermine the success of the other homogenized characters within the Disney Princess line.

Page 7 of 8 FirstFirst ... 45678 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 15
    Last Post: 12-11-2007, 10:52 PM
  2. Changing Disney For The Better
    By MsSarah in forum MiceChat Main Lounge
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-14-2007, 05:30 PM
  3. Disney's changing world- Miami Herald- 7/17/05
    By dramaqueen in forum MiceChat News Archive
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-18-2005, 02:05 PM
  4. Visited Downtown Disney for the first time
    By Athlonacon in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-12-2005, 07:34 AM
  5. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-24-2005, 07:43 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •