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  1. #16

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    Re: See "Blackfish" before going to SeaWorld

    Bravo Creepy Monkey. I echo that 100%
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  2. #17

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    Re: See "Blackfish" before going to SeaWorld

    Quote Originally Posted by CreepyMonkey View Post
    This is the one and only statement I will make on this subject. I will not respond further to this because I feel everything I've needed to say can be found in our podcast on this subject.

    While I agree that animals in captivity as a general rule is not desirable or probably the best thing for them, I recognize that human beings are quickly poisoning our world, killing off entire species and destroying their habitat.

    Our oceans are dying.

    Many aquatic species, such as river dolphins, are either extinct or quickly will be.

    SeaWorld is one of the best organizations out there to bring awareness to people what magnificent and wonderful creatures are present in our oceans, and makes people feel compassionate towards them. SeaWorld has also rescued thousands of marine creatures, returning them to the wild, and continues to do so. For these reasons alone, I support SeaWorld and will continue to do so.

    Until someone comes up with a plan to help people connect with marine life on a massive and incredibly emotional scale such as SeaWorld does, (other than the ridiculous responses I've seen so far such as, "watch youtube videos" or "take everyone on whale tours"...can you imagine taking all six billion + of this planets citizens on whale watching tours? Yeah, neither can I) I cannot condone or even understand the vicious attacks that are done on this organization. I have seen again and again people villainizing SeaWorld because it is a 'for profit' entity. This is silly, saying that just because an organization makes a profit its intentions must be nefarious, just as silly as assuming because something is non-profit makes that organization benevolent.

    I judge anyone and anything by the sum total of its actions. Not by individual acts or isolated incidents.

    SeaWorld has proven over and over it has the best of intentions in what it does and wants to do for animals, our oceans and our planet. This is what I judge SeaWorld by.

    Thank you for your attention.
    Great post, Creepy Monkey! On a Disney Cruise in Alaska this summer, Orcas were the creatures I most wanted to see, partly because of a connection I have with them that was born at Sea World. So ironically, Sea World caused me to have an emotional reaction to the documentary that argues against Sea World's treatment of killer whales. And I wonder, if Sea World does get rid of orca shows, will other dolphin and seal shows be next? Will Universal be attacked for having their excellent dog & cat shows, and will zoos be boycotted for bird shows? I do want Sea World to change, but even I'm conflicted about what the changes should be.

  3. #18

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    Re: See "Blackfish" before going to SeaWorld

    Quote Originally Posted by jcruise86 View Post
    Great post, Creepy Monkey! On a Disney Cruise in Alaska this summer, Orcas were the creatures I most wanted to see, partly because of a connection I have with them that was born at Sea World. So ironically, Sea World caused me to have an emotional reaction to the documentary that argues against Sea World's treatment of killer whales. And I wonder, if Sea World does get rid of orca shows, will other dolphin and seal shows be next? Will Universal be attacked for having their excellent dog & cat shows, and will zoos be boycotted for bird shows? I do want Sea World to change, but even I'm conflicted about what the changes should be.
    This is an excellent point. Part of what bothers me so much when Sea World is attacked by people that care so much about the killer whales (which is a good thing) is that I don't know where you draw the line. People think of orcas as these magical, supremely intellectual creatures. Are they super smart? Yes. But so are dolphins. So are sea lions. So are pigs. So are elephants. So are cuttlefish. The list of amazingly smart animals goes on and on, yet dolphins and killer whales have this exceptional quality that often gets attached to them. I personally don't see how Sea World is any different than any zoo with captive animals (although I am confident that Sea World's level of care are far superior to most). Sea World is for profit but so are many zoos. I think what is hard to swallow is the initial capture of these animals. I also think that the larger the animal, the harder it is to observe a capture (as seen in Blackfish). I guess my point is that if someone thinks killer whales don't belong in captivity, do any animals? Do pets? Why is it that Sea World, who is known for exceptional animal care take more heat than other zoos, circuses, labs that test on animals, or even below average pet owners where the standards are far inferior or even non-existent?

  4. #19

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    Re: See "Blackfish" before going to SeaWorld

    Quote Originally Posted by Amber View Post
    I guess my point is that if someone thinks killer whales don't belong in captivity, do any animals? Do pets?
    This reminds me of a part of Denis Leary's comedy routine. In it he lines up all the animals and has then justify themselves. It essentially goes like this (bad summary below)

    "I'm a otter. I do cute human things with my hands" "Aw, you go free."
    "I'm a dolphin, I am so smart and cute." "Aw, you go free"
    I'm a cow." "You're delicious. Get in the truck."

    So, which is it? We can't have it both ways. 1) Animal captivity is wrong and should be abolished for all creatures, from large zoo animals to fuzzy puppies and cute little kitties in our homes to farm animals raised for food. or 2) There are totally justifiable reasons for these captivity programs; some for the betterment of our lives, some for our education and others for our nutritional needs.

    And those of you who are so passionate about the health and welfare of the captive whales... are you vegans? Corporate farm animals raised for protein production and byproducts (cheese, eggs, etc) often live their lives in much worse conditions than those whales.

    Before you ask, I am an omnivore who does their best to eat free range, quickly and thoughtfully slaughtered animals and byproducts from local farms where I can see how the animals are treated.

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  5. #20

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    Re: See "Blackfish" before going to SeaWorld

    Quote Originally Posted by KingEric View Post
    I will simply say I disagree, and that factually BlackFish is on very shaky ground. We are putting out Episode 9 of the Unofficial SeaWorld Podcast tonight that will be handling our coverage of BlackFish along with factual errors, omissions, and untruths.

    While I understand the concern, and how people want to help the Orcas, they miss the bigger issue of protecting our Oceans long term.

    I will let our podcast episode do most of the talking once I am done editing it.
    There are A LOT of twisted truths in this film, especially about the "attack". The movie to me was nothing more than a reason for Ex-Sea World employees to get back at their former employer. Where were the REAL Sea/Marine Life experts in the film? Nowhere. Did the film mention the conservation and preservation efforts that SeaWorld put fourth each and every day? Nope, why would it? It's made to spew and conjure controversy for no real reason because people eat that crap up like there is no tomorrow. Look at all these "anti-SeaWorld" activist groups consisting of people who have clearly never stepped a single foot in any of the parks. People need to open their eyes. Watching a movie doesn't make you an activist, in fact a movie should be THE LAST thing on earth that inspires activism.


  6. #21

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    Re: See "Blackfish" before going to SeaWorld

    The oceans are dying? Oceanocare!

  7. #22

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    Re: See "Blackfish" before going to SeaWorld

    Just saw a portion of this on CNN, and it is really presented one sided. I would expect that CNN would have a more balanced "news" features on its network, Sad that isn't the case here.

    I'm glad that Sea World is around, to give the opportunity for millions (who would not otherwise have a chance) to see these killer whales and several other marine animals, close and in person.

    Yes, the deaths attributed to these captive animals should be taken with seriousness, and current and future employees who work closely with these animals SHOULD be thoroughly trained on safety issues. But DO NOT cut ALL these animals from Sea World. they really are Sea Worlds star attraction.

  8. #23

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    Re: See "Blackfish" before going to SeaWorld

    Quote Originally Posted by k_peek_2000 View Post
    ...Watching a movie doesn't make you an activist, in fact a movie should be THE LAST thing on earth that inspires activism.
    On the contrary, documentary films are an excellent way to inspire activism, and have done so since the early years of filmmaking. They certainly are a good means of countering the self-serving PR propaganda and disinformation disgorged by corporations like Sea World.
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  9. #24

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    Re: See "Blackfish" before going to SeaWorld

    The problem with this film is that it's all one sided. What the film should have done was offered viewpoints from both sides of the arguments so you can come up with your own opinions. This type of film does nothing but steer the audience to believe what they want you to believe.
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  10. #25

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    See "Blackfish" before going to SeaWorld

    Quote Originally Posted by Coasterjunkie View Post
    The problem with this film is that it's all one sided. What the film should have done was offered viewpoints from both sides of the arguments so you can come up with your own opinions. This type of film does nothing but steer the audience to believe what they want you to believe.
    Sea World refused to take part in the film and, as far as I know, hasn't granted the makers of Blackfish any space for rebuttal in their carefully worded press releases.

    Blackfish Metacritic score: 83. (Last time I checked.)

    Some of Pixar's leaders were moved by this documentary enough to change the ending of "Finding Dory."

    Too bad some of you only saw this on TV screens. While home theaters might be fine for capturing Sea World's bathtub cages, they fall far short when presenting orcas in the majestic natural habitats that were presented so beautifully in this film.

    Disney World should show this 24/7 on one of their hotel TV channels.

  11. #26

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    Re: See "Blackfish" before going to SeaWorld

    Quote Originally Posted by Coasterjunkie View Post
    ...This type of film does nothing but steer the audience to believe what they want you to believe.
    ...As has the self-serving marketing propaganda of SeaWorld Entertainment for decades. They certainly aren't going to tell the public the unpleasant downsides of their very lucrative business.


    Quote Originally Posted by Coasterjunkie View Post
    What the film should have done was offered viewpoints from both sides of the arguments so you can come up with your own opinions.
    Why should the filmmakers be held to any different standards of "neutrality" than SeaWorld? They're not a TV network news organization.
    Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 10-27-2013 at 04:34 AM.
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  12. #27

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    Re: See "Blackfish" before going to SeaWorld

    Ok, well, consider this. Say your wish is granted and SeaWorld does close it's doors. What then happens to all the animals and fish they have? There are realistically only two options. Option 1 is to release the animals into the wild. This will require someone or company that's willing to invest the billions of dollars it'll take to acclimate the largely captive born animals at SeaWorld to the wild. Remember Keiko aka Free Willy and all the money it took to reacclimate that one wild caught Orca back into the wild? Do you also remember that Keiko died only months after the long process of reacclimation to its natural environment?

    Here's the second and most likealy option in my opinion. The animals will be sold off to other zoos and aquariums which will most likealy have smaller tanks. Some of those will have very questionable practices like Marineland in Niagara Falls, Ontario, Canada. They're still embroiled in a storm up there over some questionable Veteranairian care of their animals. That most likealy caused SeaWorld to pull its Orca they loaned out to them several years before the loan agreement expired.

    In the end, all that's gained is that SeaWorld closes it's doors and the animals get distributed to other zoos and aquariums across the globe. What's lost is the incredible network SeaWorld has for rescuing, rehabilitation, and rerelease of injured wildlife. Do you remember the mass sealion beaching a that took place in Southern California? There would be a lot of dead seals there if it weren't for SW coming to the rescue as the local opperations would have been quickly overwhelmed.

    In my opinion, I think keeping the already captive born whales and other animals in captivity is a small price to pay considering what we have learned from them while in captivity, and what SeaWorld does behind the scenes with the rescue, rehab, and release program they have.
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  13. #28

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    Re: See "Blackfish" before going to SeaWorld

    Quote Originally Posted by Attic Haunt View Post
    This reminds me of a part of Denis Leary's comedy routine. In it he lines up all the animals and has then justify themselves. It essentially goes like this (bad summary below)

    "I'm a otter. I do cute human things with my hands" "Aw, you go free."
    "I'm a dolphin, I am so smart and cute." "Aw, you go free"
    I'm a cow." "You're delicious. Get in the truck."

    So, which is it? We can't have it both ways. 1) Animal captivity is wrong and should be abolished for all creatures, from large zoo animals to fuzzy puppies and cute little kitties in our homes to farm animals raised for food. or 2) There are totally justifiable reasons for these captivity programs; some for the betterment of our lives, some for our education and others for our nutritional needs.

    And those of you who are so passionate about the health and welfare of the captive whales... are you vegans? Corporate farm animals raised for protein production and byproducts (cheese, eggs, etc) often live their lives in much worse conditions than those whales.

    Before you ask, I am an omnivore who does their best to eat free range, quickly and thoughtfully slaughtered animals and byproducts from local farms where I can see how the animals are treated.
    You don't see the difference between breeding domesticated livestock on a pasture and keeping a whale in a fish tank? No one's getting on a truck or justifying anything as in Mr. Leary's parallel universe.

  14. #29

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    Re: See "Blackfish" before going to SeaWorld

    Quote Originally Posted by jcruise86 View Post

    Disney World should show this 24/7 on one of their hotel TV channels.
    I can just imagine the sad cry they would let out!

  15. #30

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    Re: See "Blackfish" before going to SeaWorld

    Quote Originally Posted by jcruise86 View Post
    Sea World refused to take part in the film and, as far as I know, hasn't granted the makers of Blackfish any space for rebuttal in their carefully worded press releases.

    Blackfish Metacritic score: 83. (Last time I checked.)

    Some of Pixar's leaders were moved by this documentary enough to change the ending of "Finding Dory."

    Too bad some of you only saw this on TV screens. While home theaters might be fine for capturing Sea World's bathtub cages, they fall far short when presenting orcas in the majestic natural habitats that were presented so beautifully in this film.

    Disney World should show this 24/7 on one of their hotel TV channels.
    You don't need to think that people who "only saw this on TV" cannot take away the same message as those who saw it in the movie theater. The fact remains that Sea World makes it possible for millions, even tens of millions of people to see these great creatures in person, and gain a personal appreciation for them that they would not be able to experience otherwise.

    Some of the same arguments being made to take killer whales out of Sea World and other similar parks could be used to close ALL zoos throughout the world. Imagine zoos without elephants, tigers, panda, kangaroos, lions, polar bears, giraffes, buffalo, hippos, gorillas, etc. And what of all domesticated animal like horses, cows, sheep, etc. Would you have them all be set free? I am not buying into your argument, it's just WAY too important to have facilities like Sea World and Zoos like the San Diego Zoo, for people of all ages to gain a greater appreciation for animals throughout the world.

    AND YES, Absolutely, certain standards should be set for facilities like Sea World, Disney's Animal Kingdom, and all other Zoos, who are entrusted with the care of these creatures. And yes, employees of these facilities should be highly trained in working with these animals. But CNN SHOULD be held to high standards as well, in reporting FACTS, and not just simply spout off, word for word, edit bite for edit bite, as what others are reporting. It's the duty of CNN to get BOTH sides of the story, and present it as such.

    I doubt very much that Sea World is the largest offended of "animal rights". They are just one of the most well known facilities to care for ocean life in domesticated way. And because of their success and because they are well known, it makes them a bigger target. But what of smaller facilities, that don't hold a candle to the standards of Sea World?

    What of animals being transported from city to city by carnivals and circuses? Certainly Sea World does a better job at providing homes for their creatures, than those creatures who are transported from city to city.

    This movie is just attacking a bigger target, to get a bigger bang for their buck, and doing it one sided. It might be better to present their movie in a more balanced and fair approach, to make their movie more reputable. Unfortunately, in the end, the movie looks like it has a blatant predetermined agenda.

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