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  1. #31

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    Re: See "Blackfish" before going to SeaWorld

    Quote Originally Posted by Aladdin View Post
    Unfortunately, in the end, the movie looks like it has a blatant predetermined agenda.
    Certainly the movie has a predetermined agenda. It was made by filmmakers who, along with the Whale and Dolphin Conservation Society, the World Society for the Protection of Animals and other organizations, are advocates for the freedom of marine wildlife. The film is a protest against the exploitation of marine wildlife by SeaWorld and other entertainment corporations like it.

    The filmmakers' agenda is clear. Unlike that of SeaWorld, which for nearly a half century has piously claimed to be pro-wildlife while making billions off its exploitation.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

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  2. #32

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    Re: See "Blackfish" before going to SeaWorld

    Quote Originally Posted by Coasterjunkie View Post
    Say your wish is granted and SeaWorld does close it's doors. What then happens to all the animals and fish they have?
    Nowhere in my posts did I say it was my wish that SeaWorld close.

    To the question of what should be done with the currently captive animals, Naomi Rose, Ph.D., marine mammal scientist for the Animal Welfare Institute, has proposed a win-win solution for captive orcas and marine theme parks.

    A quote from her article:

    ...There is a win/win solution to both the trainer safety and orca welfare dilemmas facing marine theme parks around the world, including SeaWorld in the United States.

    These facilities can work with experts around the world to create sanctuaries where captive orcas can be rehabilitated and retired. These sanctuaries would be sea pens or netted-off bays or coves, in temperate to cold water natural habitat. They would offer the animals respite from performing and the constant exposure to a parade of strangers (an entirely unnatural situation for a species whose social groupings are based on family ties and stability -- "strangers" essentially do not exist in orca society). Incompatible animals would not be forced to cohabit the same enclosures and family groups would be preserved.

    Show business trainers would no longer be necessary. Expert caretakers would continue to train retired whales for veterinary procedures, but would not get in the water and would remain at a safe distance (this is known in zoo parlance as "protected contact"). And the degree to which they interact directly with the whales would be each whale's choice.

    A fundamental premise of these sanctuaries, however, is that eventually they would empty. Breeding would not be allowed and captive orcas would no longer exist within the next few decades.

    Many wildlife sanctuaries, for circus, roadside zoo and backyard refugees, exist around the globe for animals such as big cats, elephants and chimpanzees. The business (usually nonprofit) model for these types of facilities is therefore well-established for terrestrial species and can be adapted for orcas.

    Wildlife sanctuaries are sometimes open to the public, although public interaction with the animals is usually minimized. A visitor's center can offer education, real-time remote viewing of the animals, a gift shop, and in the case of whales and dolphins can even be a base for responsible whale watching if the sanctuary is in a suitable location for that activity.

    Marine theme parks do not need to lose out financially by phasing out orca shows; this is a transformative proposal, not a punitive one.

    Creating a whale or dolphin sanctuary is not entirely theoretical. Merlin Entertainments is pursuing the establishment of the world's first bottlenose dolphin sanctuary with Whale and Dolphin Conservation, a nonprofit environmental group. Whale and Dolphin Conservation put together a team to determine the feasibility of such a concept and the company has now identified potential sites and is studying the infrastructure that will be needed to support a group of retired dolphins.

    Before the tragic death of SeaWorld trainer Dawn Brancheau in 2010, the ethical arguments against keeping orcas in captivity came largely from the animal welfare/animal rights community, with the marine theme parks basically ignoring or dismissing their opponents as a vocal and out-of-touch minority.

    Now even staunch SeaWorld supporters are wondering if the time has come to think outside the (concrete) box.

    Furthermore, the marine mammal science community, which has long maintained a neutral stance on the question of whether orcas are a suitable species for captive display, has finally recognized the need to engage. An informal panel discussion on captive orcas is scheduled at the 20th Biennial Conference on the Biology of Marine Mammals in December, the first time this topic will be openly addressed by the world's largest marine mammal science society.

    The first orca was put on public display in 1964. The debate on whether that was a good idea -- for people or the whales -- began the next day but didn't really heat up until the 1970s. It raged mostly on the fringe for the next 25 years. It picked up steam in the mid-1990s, with the release of the film "Free Willy" and the rehabilitation of its orca star Keiko. And now, thanks in part to "Blackfish," it is mainstream and consensus is building that orcas don't belong in captivity.

    The marine theme parks can shift with the paradigm or be left behind -- it is up to them.


    The full text is on CNN.com
    Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 10-27-2013 at 04:25 PM.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  3. #33

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    Re: See "Blackfish" before going to SeaWorld

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    On the contrary, documentary films are an excellent way to inspire activism, and have done so since the early years of filmmaking. They certainly are a good means of countering the self-serving PR propaganda and disinformation disgorged by corporations like Sea World.
    Not when it only offers a single biased viewpoint. Allowing the viewer to make their own decision is good documentary filming making. Forcing them to hate something they know nothing about by twisting truths, clever editing and demonizing something is propaganda.


  4. #34

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    Re: See "Blackfish" before going to SeaWorld

    Quote Originally Posted by k_peek_2000 View Post
    Not when it only offers a single biased viewpoint. Allowing the viewer to make their own decision is good documentary filming making. Forcing them to hate something they know nothing about by twisting truths, clever editing and demonizing something is propaganda.
    Propaganda is in the eyes and ears of the beholder. SeaWorld advocates see Blackfish as propaganda, while those against the exploitation of marine animals for entertainment see it as truth.

    Certainly, the point of view that SeaWorld has promoted to the public since 1964 has been totally biased in favor of its own financial success.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  5. #35

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    Re: See "Blackfish" before going to SeaWorld

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Propaganda is in the eyes and ears of the beholder. SeaWorld advocates see Blackfish as propaganda, while those against the exploitation of marine animals for entertainment see it as truth.
    The film was FUNDED and produced by those same animal activists who clearly have an agenda against SeaWorld... and technically SeaWorld advocates analysis of the film being propaganda is correct.

    DEFINITION: Propaganda - prop·a·gan·da

    Information, esp. of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view.


  6. #36

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    Re: See "Blackfish" before going to SeaWorld

    Quote Originally Posted by k_peek_2000 View Post
    The film was FUNDED and produced by those same animal activists who clearly have an agenda against SeaWorld...
    Correct. And they make no attempt to hide it.


    Quote Originally Posted by k_peek_2000 View Post
    ...technically SeaWorld advocates analysis of the film being propaganda is correct.
    Incorrect. For nearly fifty years SeaWorld has been famous (or infamous, depending on your point of view) for dismissing concerns about the marine animals they capture, denigrating the marine biologists who criticize them, distorting the data of orca and dolphin death rates, and propagandizing the public with PR spin. That is their agenda.

    The relevant truth is that SeaWorld is a corporation which profits from the exploitation of marine animals who, whether captured or born into captivity, are given no choice in the matter.

    If, after studying the actions of SeaWorld since 1964, one still believes it has been telling the truth, then of course one will likely believe that Blackfish is an unfair, biased and propagandist slam against SeaWorld.

    Those who see SeaWorld as profiteers who've made billions by exploiting the lives -- and deaths -- of marine animals are likely to view Blackfish in a very different light.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  7. #37

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    Re: See "Blackfish" before going to SeaWorld

    Quote Originally Posted by jcruise86 View Post
    Sea World refused to take part in the film and, as far as I know, hasn't granted the makers of Blackfish any space for rebuttal in their carefully worded press releases.
    The Film clearly has an agenda. Why would SeaWorld bother to tell its story when the footage and content will be edited in a way that will further promote the message Blackfish is trying to get across to people while making SeaWorld look bad. SeaWorld is doing the right thing here. The Film is making a few headlines at the moment but give it a couple of years and people will forget and move on. Besides looking at its boxoffice takings and the viewing figures for CNN the number who have seen the movie is small. Coming from the UK which makes up a good number of SeaWorld Orlando's attendance I had not even heard about this Film. And might not had if it wasn't for the fact I follow some of the unofficial SeaWorld social media sites. Like the Podcast.

  8. #38

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    Re: See "Blackfish" before going to SeaWorld

    For anyone who wants to hear filmmaker Gabriela Cowperthwaite tell why she made Blackfish, she has written a piece for CNN.com.

    A quote:

    ...We sometimes hear of dogs mauling other people, but in these cases we don't seem to hear about them attacking their masters. So why would America's lovable Shamu turn against us? How could our entire collective childhood memories of this delightful water park be so morbidly wrong?

    I came in with these questions. I set out to understand this incident, not as an animal activist -- because I'm not one -- but as a mother who had just taken her kids to SeaWorld, and of course as a documentary filmmaker who unfortunately can't let sleeping dogs lie.

    I brought Manny Oteyza aboard as the film's producer, and he soon became my right arm. I spoke to Tim Zimmermann who wrote a phenomenal article for Outside magazine about killer whales and asked him to come aboard as an associate producer. I wrote a treatment. We were then funded by investors who had never made a film before. Together we set out to tell this story of an incident at SeaWorld.

    I knew immediately that I wanted SeaWorld to have a voice in the film. We e-mailed back and forth for about six months. I gave them every chance to talk, but they eventually declined. At that point, however, I had already began peeling back the onion. And my journey of shock and discovery was well underway.

    I have made television documentaries for 15 years, but "Blackfish" is my second feature documentary and my first one to have found theatrical distribution. I can't say this was an easy film to make. There were nightmares, too many autopsy reports, sobbing interviewees and unhappy animals.

    And I was scared. SeaWorld is a $2 billion a year entity, and they'll do anything to protect their greatest asset: Shamu. But as I moved forward I knew that in telling this story in an honest and fact-driven way, I was telling the truth. It sounds cliche but it's really that simple. At some point you're simply compelled, in spite of yourself, to tell a story that needs to be told no matter how scared you are of an entity that could squash you.

    Two years after I wrote the treatment in 2010 we finished "Blackfish." I can say that my crew and I are all profoundly changed by the experience. I know that killer whales are not suitable for captivity. I am dedicated to spreading the word. The early deaths, the grieving, the boredom, the daily fighting and the attacks -- what we learned over two years is impossible to shake. Once you see it, you can't unsee it.

    My hope is that we take the "Blackfish" momentum and use it to help evolve us out of animals for entertainment. These silly marine park tricks are of no social, educational or conservational value. We advocate, instead, for captive killer whales to be retired into sea sanctuaries where they can live out the rest of their lives in a dignified, sustainable manner.

    We can't throw them back into the ocean because they don't know how to hunt, their teeth are broken from years of stress and biting on metal gates, and they're hopped up on antibiotics and might die in the open ocean. However, in a sea sanctuary, where a large ocean cove is cordoned off with a net, we could monitor their health, even feed them if need be. It is the best alternative.

    People always wonder whether I believe SeaWorld should be closed down. I always say no. They have tremendous financial resources and could play a key role in creating sea sanctuaries which could be a profit-making endeavor. I believe people would flock to a site where a killer whale is being a killer whale for the first time -- something infinitely more satisfying than seeing a killer whale dance the Macarena.

    I hope you like the film. I don't know if it will change the way you feel about animals in entertainment parks. I didn't intend for it to do so. I just wanted to tell the real story. And I trust that once audiences are armed with the truth, they will make the best decisions by themselves and their families.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  9. #39

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    Re: See "Blackfish" before going to SeaWorld

    If she thinks Killer Whales "attack" because they can't handle the stress of being in captivity, just... no. It doesn't work like that.


  10. #40

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    Re: See "Blackfish" before going to SeaWorld

    Quote Originally Posted by k_peek_2000 View Post
    ...no. It doesn't work like that.
    In point of fact, yes, it does, as has been made clear by longstanding research and experience:

    It's unfortunate that SeaWorld continues to reject the win-win scenarios proposed by the Blackfish director and others, including Dr. Naomi Rose. SeaWorld's insistence on continuing their half century-old tradition of exploiting animals for profit ignores the rising tide of public opinion: last year's survey showed only one in four Americans support orca captivity. As public concern for the welfare of orcas grows, folks who like watching captive marine mammals perform staged tricks for their entertainment are increasingly in the minority. The marine mammal circuses run by SeaWorld and others are heading the way of circus elephant acts -- into oblivion.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  11. #41

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    Re: See "Blackfish" before going to SeaWorld

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    In point of fact, yes, it does, as has been made clear by longstanding research and experience:

    It's unfortunate that SeaWorld continues to reject the win-win scenarios proposed by the Blackfish director and others, including Dr. Naomi Rose. SeaWorld's insistence on continuing their half century-old tradition of exploiting animals for profit ignores the rising tide of public opinion: last year's survey showed only one in four Americans support orca captivity. As public concern for the welfare of orcas grows, folks who like watching captive marine mammals perform staged tricks for their entertainment are increasingly in the minority. The marine mammal circuses run by SeaWorld and others are heading the way of circus elephant acts -- into oblivion.
    Not particularly. One of my siblings spent the past 8 years of her life studying oceanography with a MA in Marine Biology and Minor in Microbiology (who saw the film in theaters) informed me that the portrayal of the psychology of whales in the film is completely twisted. But in the case of Tilikum, if you knew what happened the day of the ''attack''. You would know that the specific trainer had her hair done in a pony-tail. The ONLY day she had ever worn her hair in that style according to her fellow trainers. The whale was curious about it and perceived it as a toy and thus - in trying to play with her pony tail, killed the trainer. This could have easily been prevented and had nothing to do with a decaying emotional state.

    Do I think SeaWorld could handle Orca's better? Sure, my last visit was a real eye-opener in that I was finally able to comprehend the power of these mammals. It would be very easy to still have Shamu as the park's icon without the show and I would love to see SeaWorld do something to please all parties involved.

    What I am against here is the film itself. It's twisted storytelling at best.


  12. #42

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    Re: See "Blackfish" before going to SeaWorld

    Blackfish is coming to DVD on Tuesday, November 12. Metacritic.com score: 83.
    Man of Steel (Metacritic score: 55) will be released on DVD the same day.
    And while I'm getting off track, let me recommend three movies currently out in theaters.
    My favorite is "12 Years a Slave," followed by (tie) "Captain Phillips" and "Gravity."
    Last edited by jcruise86; 11-06-2013 at 04:29 PM.

  13. #43

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    Re: See "Blackfish" before going to SeaWorld

    From everything I have seen, this film is nothing more than a highly biased hatchet job that presents the distorted points of view of the film worker and former employees that may or may not be disgruntled.
    The fountain of youth really is in Florida... thats why they built Walt Disney World where they did.

  14. #44

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    Re: See "Blackfish" before going to SeaWorld

    .
    .

    Seafaring ghost, doesn't writing
    . . .
    Quote Originally Posted by seafaring_ghost View Post
    From everything I have seen. . .
    . . . without seeing it sound a bit like this guy:

    http://www.theonion.com/articles/man...ow-abou,17990/

    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

  15. #45

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    Re: See "Blackfish" before going to SeaWorld

    Quote Originally Posted by k_peek_2000 View Post
    Not particularly. One of my siblings spent the past 8 years of her life studying oceanography with a MA in Marine Biology and Minor in Microbiology (who saw the film in theaters) informed me that the portrayal of the psychology of whales in the film is completely twisted. But in the case of Tilikum, if you knew what happened the day of the ''attack''. You would know that the specific trainer had her hair done in a pony-tail. The ONLY day she had ever worn her hair in that style according to her fellow trainers. The whale was curious about it and perceived it as a toy and thus - in trying to play with her pony tail, killed the trainer. This could have easily been prevented and had nothing to do with a decaying emotional state.

    Do I think SeaWorld could handle Orca's better? Sure, my last visit was a real eye-opener in that I was finally able to comprehend the power of these mammals. It would be very easy to still have Shamu as the park's icon without the show and I would love to see SeaWorld do something to please all parties involved.

    What I am against here is the film itself. It's twisted storytelling at best.
    Yes, but witnesses state that Tilikum grabbed her arm, not her hair. Further, she always wore her hair in a ponytail.

    There is a picture of her with a ponytail in March 2009 with a different whale, Nalani: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...eau-sea-world/

    And another: http://m.nydailynews.com/1.168274#bmb=1 This photo is undated and the whale is unidentified, but you can clearly see it was not taken the day she died, as she is wearing a red and black wetsuit (she was wearing the white and black one the day of her death and also in the other picture).

    I just did did a quick google search.
    Last edited by The First Star; 11-13-2013 at 02:47 AM.

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