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About LinkBacksFor one thing, labor costs in mainland China are far lower. Plus, where are you getting those numbers you quoted for the other parks - they seem much higher than what I've read before, especially for HKDL.Originally Posted by RandySavage
For one thing, labor costs in mainland China are far lower. Plus, where are you getting those numbers you quoted for the other parks - they seem much higher than what I've read before, especially for HKDL.
Down with the Hat
But apparently, the Chinese outside of Hong Kong would rather go to Shanghai. I asked a friend of mine who lives in Nanjing, China.
I may be slightly confused, but I think that Cantonese Chinese is spoken in Hong Kong, but in Shanghai, Wu Chinese and Mandarin Chinese are more common. Mandarin Chinese is the most spoken language in the world, but there are not many differences between the dialects anyway. Mandarin is my foreign language for high school.
So, it might be easier for the majority of Chinese to communicate in Shanghai, rather than Hong Kong, but the dialects are not too different.
But anyways, I'm hoping that this will be a new take on the Magic Kingdom style park, and I'm super excited!
I've adjusted all historic dollar amounts for inflation so they can be meaningfully measured against dollar amounts given today for SDL. (i.e., it cost $1.8b in 2005 dollars to build HKDL, equivalent to $1.97 in 2008 dollars. Hong Kong Disneyland Tops Out Centerpiece Structure - Site Selection Online)
To your point, however, this second source says the $1.8b for HKDL also includes "hotel and facilities") in addition to the park (Hong Kong Lands $3.55 Billion Disney Park - Site Selection Online Insider), which would bode better for SDL.
That said, even with the money lavished on DisneySea and Disneyland Paris, both of those incredibly beautiful parks opened and were criticized for not having enough to do (i.e., rides) - not on the level of HKDL, but both required major capital injections soon after opening. With "small park, little to do" on the forefront of the Chinese mind when it comes to Disney, you'd hope WDP&R would be wise enough to build a new park in China with a glut, rather than dearth, of attractions.
$2.0-2.3b for a new park doesn't tell me that they've learned this lesson.
I believe you are right about the languages. Though many CM's at HKDL speak both Cantonese and Mandarin, if I'm not mistaken. My wife's family lives near Shanghai, and for Mainland residents, a park in Shanghai is much easier to get to then going to Hong Kong. The park is certainly targeting those who don't want to travel across China. For my own travels, Shanghai would probably be an easier park to visit because I wouldn't have to make time to stay in Hong Kong. I could go to SDL and still be near family.
I'll try to find exact numbers for you but from what I had read in the past cost of HKDL park itself - not including the landfill, hotels, etc - was much less than 1 billion USD, Those figures make more sense to me in terms of what got built.
As far as I know, TDS was built for just over 3 billion USD including 900 million USD for Hotel Mira Costa. Of course it was a second gate at a well established resort and so did not have many of the peripheral costs that went along with construction of DLP and HKDL parks.
The cost of the Paris park as far as I know was also in the 3 billion USD range, though that likely excludes the hotels and other resort elements - the hotels being the main reason why the resort as a whole lost money in the early years.
As for the notion that either TDS or DLP did not have enough attractions at opening...I think that idea is / was devoid of any merit.
Down with the Hat
I'm not too sure about Disneyland Paris, but all sources I've read indicate that Tokyo DisneySea cost $3.3-$3.4 billion on its own (confirmed in one of the documentaries about the park released shortly after opening). All the information I've read states that the MiraCosta's own cost was seperate from the park and may have been as high as $1.1 billion. Adjusted for inflation, I can certainly see the $4.9 billion figure RandySavage posted. Apparentely, their official press release was a bit hesitant in publishing the true cost of the park. Those close to the people who worked on the project have leaked that they admitted to going over the original budget, which makes it hard to actually determine the true and total cost of the park.
~ Tokyo DisneySea’s Arabian Coast at nighttime ~
The financial summaries of the HK Legislative Counsel succinctly and accurately state the costs of DLP and the original TDLhttp://www.legco.gov.hk/yr08-09/english/sec/library/0809fs30-e.pdf)
"At first, the project [DLP] cost was estimated to be about US$1 billion. When the theme park was completed, cost escalated to $5 billion due to a number of design and construction changes. Between 1992 and 1994, a combination of reasons led to financial difficulty at Euro Disney: the $4 billion debt posed a huge financial burden on the park, interest rates were double the original estimates, tourist spending was lower because of recession in Europe, half of the revenue projected to come from real estate development did not materialize as a result of the collapse of the property market in France, a strong franc which made it expensive for visitors, and low attendance which fell below the expected annual 10 million for the period."
According to the 2000 Legislative Counsel financials (http://www.legco.gov.hk/yr99-00/engl...ry/990in02.pdf), Tokyo Disneyland originally cost $1.4bn and DisneySea was projected to cost $3bn. Wikipedia (don't put much stock in it) says DisneySea ballooned to over $4bn.
Under these financials the cost of HKDL (excluding reclamation, but including hotels, roads, etc.) was $1.8bn:
http://www.legco.gov.hk/yr08-09/engl...0809fs28-e.pdf
*****
Now that we have as official numbers as can be found, the idea is to see what kind of theme park that amount will buy you in today's dollars (granted there are many factors such as labor cost which do not make this a perfect science).
Tokyo Disneyland: $1.4bn (1983) --> $3.0bn (2009)
Euro Disneyland Resort: $5.0bn (1992) --> $7.6bn (2009)
Hong Kong Disneyland Resort: $1.8bn (1999) --> $2.3bn (2009)
DisneySea (inc Miracosta): $3.5bn (2001) --> $4.3bn (2009)
So, if $3.6bn (2009) is being injected into the Shanghai Disney Resort, you can expect something more significant than HKDL Resort, but not at the level of DisneSea/MiraCosta.
Debatable.As for the notion that either TDS or DLP did not have enough attractions at opening...I think that idea is / was devoid of any merit.
“Once we opened EuroDisneyland we knew that we needed two things; thrill rides and quick capacity. We had literally picked the crown jewels of the Disneyland model and I think we opened that park environment richer than any we have ever done before. However we needed things to distribute the crowd and let them vanish into the environments. So we added the Passage of Aladdin and Fort Comstock walk-throughs, a new train station, Casey Jr., Le Pays des Contes de Fées [Storybook Land Canal Boats] and Les Mystères du Nautilus [Mysteries of the Nautilus]. We also built Indiana Jones and the Temple of Peril as the park only had Big Thunder Mountain in the original attraction mix that was a thrill ride so the park needed something else." - Tony Baxter.
I think the majority of park-goers expect rides - particularly if they have multiple days booked at a Disney hotel. So it's safe to say that WDI knew from the opening that they would quickly need to expand the attraction roster or risk attendance drop-off (which happened anyway - potentially due to world of mouth about lack of rides). And when that first new e-ticket, Space Mountain, was added, the park finally began drawing enough crowds to turn its first profit.
***
As far as DisneySea not having enough attractions at opening... OLC opened its coffers and mandated WDI to build the greatest park they could - something that would be as big a draw as its hugely popular neighbor. While TDS achieved its attendance goals, insiders like LeeMac at Laughingplace have made repeated statements that park attendance somewhat disappointed the OLC - so much so that they moved quicker than anticipated to add Raging Spirits (deja vu Temple du Peril) and Tower of Terror.
Last edited by RandySavage; 10-29-2009 at 10:46 PM.
That's a huge figure for the original EuroDisneyland Resort. Not including the 7 hotels, I wonder just how much the individual park cost to build.
~ Tokyo DisneySea’s Arabian Coast at nighttime ~
There have been books written on the Eurodisney fiasco ("Once Upon an American Dream", "Disney War" which puts the total at $4bn 1992 dollars)... among the reasons for the soaring costs:
1. Eisner and Tony Baxter agreed that in competing with the great art & architecture of Europe, DLP would have to be an ambitiously upscale version Disneyland (e.g., rather than the stateside fiberglass mock-up, DLP's castle would be a spectacular fantasy invention, made of pink stone and gold leaf, with handcrafted stain-glass windows and fire-breathing dragon in the dungeon). WDI was encouraged to think freely and without regard to cost.
2. Eisner wouldn't budge on the opening date, and contentious french labor unions used this fact to constantly stall and then negotiate premiums.
3. Eisner was enamored with "starchitecture" and hired a number of premium firms to build the many hotels.
4. Operating costs.
Denial from the Shanghai gov't:
Shanghai government denies rumors of Disney project approval - People's Daily Online
The Municipal Gov of Shanghai can't announce it now because the announcement has to be made by Central Government of China, that is, officials at Beijing.
and according to the news here. Announcement is expected to be made by Beijing first, then Shanghai later at a date before 15th November 2009.
90% of the agreement between Shanghai and Disney are firm. They still have to sort out some minor differences. The deal would also include media rights for Disney in China.
From Disney, seconds ago.
http://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blo...roject-update/
Last edited by yoyoflamingo; 11-03-2009 at 04:50 PM.
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Nice breaking news find.
This timeline from HKDLSource.com is an example of how things may develop:
August 1998 Hong Kong Disneyland announced
2 November 1999 Disney and The SAR Government form Hong Kong International Theme Parks Limited and announce initial plans
10 December 1999 Official signing of agreement between Hong Kong SAR Government and The Walt Disney Company.
Summer 2000 Land reclamation project for Hong Kong Disneyland site begins
November 2002 Plans for the two Hotels are unveiled
January 2003 Ground is broken on Phase I Construction
23 September 2004 Castle-topping ceremony
25 April 2005 Disney Resort Line Train (MTR) in unveiled
1 August 2005 MTR service begins
15 August 2005 Inspiration Lake opens to public
12 September 2005 Hong Kong Disneyland opens to the public
Ugh, why? Why not make HKDL a better park? As it is, more Australians travel to California rather than Hong Kong to visit Disneyland despite the difference in distance. I thought that that sort of tourism was the reason HKDL was built.
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