Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 34
  1. #16

    • Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    1,611

    Re: Shanghai Disney Theme Park to be announced this week

    Quote Originally Posted by RandySavage View Post
    This budget is not as big as I had hoped. At most 65% of this budget will go to the park itself: $2.3b.

    To put this number in perspective, Eurodisneyland Resort (including hotels/infrastructure) was projected to cost $3.6b (all amounts in 2008 dollars), but over-runs sent that soaring to $6.7b.

    The DisneySea park alone is rumored to have cost as much as $4.9b.

    Dinky HKDL park (excluding reclamation/hotels) cost $1.97b.

    Will Rasulo repeat the mistakes of Pressler? Will the Shanghai government follow the same path as HK and underbuild? This budget is worrying.
    For one thing, labor costs in mainland China are far lower. Plus, where are you getting those numbers you quoted for the other parks - they seem much higher than what I've read before, especially for HKDL.
    Down with the Hat


  2. #17

    • Drink life to the lees.
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    1,841 miles from Disneyland
    Posts
    396

    Re: Shanghai Disney Theme Park to be announced this week

    Quote Originally Posted by OC2Epcot View Post
    My last trip to China I went to Shanghai, but I'd rather go to Hong Kong myself.
    But apparently, the Chinese outside of Hong Kong would rather go to Shanghai. I asked a friend of mine who lives in Nanjing, China.

    I may be slightly confused, but I think that Cantonese Chinese is spoken in Hong Kong, but in Shanghai, Wu Chinese and Mandarin Chinese are more common. Mandarin Chinese is the most spoken language in the world, but there are not many differences between the dialects anyway. Mandarin is my foreign language for high school.
    So, it might be easier for the majority of Chinese to communicate in Shanghai, rather than Hong Kong, but the dialects are not too different.

    But anyways, I'm hoping that this will be a new take on the Magic Kingdom style park, and I'm super excited!

  3. #18

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    976

    Re: Shanghai Disney Theme Park to be announced this week

    Quote Originally Posted by tasman View Post
    Plus, where are you getting those numbers you quoted for the other parks - they seem much higher than what I've read before, especially for HKDL.
    I've adjusted all historic dollar amounts for inflation so they can be meaningfully measured against dollar amounts given today for SDL. (i.e., it cost $1.8b in 2005 dollars to build HKDL, equivalent to $1.97 in 2008 dollars. Hong Kong Disneyland Tops Out Centerpiece Structure - Site Selection Online)

    To your point, however, this second source says the $1.8b for HKDL also includes "hotel and facilities") in addition to the park (Hong Kong Lands $3.55 Billion Disney Park - Site Selection Online Insider), which would bode better for SDL.

    That said, even with the money lavished on DisneySea and Disneyland Paris, both of those incredibly beautiful parks opened and were criticized for not having enough to do (i.e., rides) - not on the level of HKDL, but both required major capital injections soon after opening. With "small park, little to do" on the forefront of the Chinese mind when it comes to Disney, you'd hope WDP&R would be wise enough to build a new park in China with a glut, rather than dearth, of attractions.

    $2.0-2.3b for a new park doesn't tell me that they've learned this lesson.

  4. #19

    • Cars Land Rocks!
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Irvine, CA
    Posts
    4,633

    Re: Shanghai Disney Theme Park to be announced this week

    Quote Originally Posted by stitchrulz View Post
    But apparently, the Chinese outside of Hong Kong would rather go to Shanghai. I asked a friend of mine who lives in Nanjing, China.

    I may be slightly confused, but I think that Cantonese Chinese is spoken in Hong Kong, but in Shanghai, Wu Chinese and Mandarin Chinese are more common. Mandarin Chinese is the most spoken language in the world, but there are not many differences between the dialects anyway. Mandarin is my foreign language for high school.

    So, it might be easier for the majority of Chinese to communicate in Shanghai, rather than Hong Kong, but the dialects are not too different.

    But anyways, I'm hoping that this will be a new take on the Magic Kingdom style park, and I'm super excited!
    I believe you are right about the languages. Though many CM's at HKDL speak both Cantonese and Mandarin, if I'm not mistaken. My wife's family lives near Shanghai, and for Mainland residents, a park in Shanghai is much easier to get to then going to Hong Kong. The park is certainly targeting those who don't want to travel across China. For my own travels, Shanghai would probably be an easier park to visit because I wouldn't have to make time to stay in Hong Kong. I could go to SDL and still be near family.





  5. #20

    • Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    1,611

    Re: Shanghai Disney Theme Park to be announced this week

    I'll try to find exact numbers for you but from what I had read in the past cost of HKDL park itself - not including the landfill, hotels, etc - was much less than 1 billion USD, Those figures make more sense to me in terms of what got built.

    As far as I know, TDS was built for just over 3 billion USD including 900 million USD for Hotel Mira Costa. Of course it was a second gate at a well established resort and so did not have many of the peripheral costs that went along with construction of DLP and HKDL parks.

    The cost of the Paris park as far as I know was also in the 3 billion USD range, though that likely excludes the hotels and other resort elements - the hotels being the main reason why the resort as a whole lost money in the early years.

    As for the notion that either TDS or DLP did not have enough attractions at opening...I think that idea is / was devoid of any merit.

    Quote Originally Posted by RandySavage View Post
    I've adjusted all historic dollar amounts for inflation so they can be meaningfully measured against dollar amounts given today for SDL. (i.e., it cost $1.8b in 2005 dollars to build HKDL, equivalent to $1.97 in 2008 dollars. Hong Kong Disneyland Tops Out Centerpiece Structure - Site Selection Online)

    To your point, however, this second source says the $1.8b for HKDL also includes "hotel and facilities") in addition to the park (Hong Kong Lands $3.55 Billion Disney Park - Site Selection Online Insider), which would bode better for SDL.

    That said, even with the money lavished on DisneySea and Disneyland Paris, both of those incredibly beautiful parks opened and were criticized for not having enough to do (i.e., rides) - not on the level of HKDL, but both required major capital injections soon after opening. With "small park, little to do" on the forefront of the Chinese mind when it comes to Disney, you'd hope WDP&R would be wise enough to build a new park in China with a glut, rather than dearth, of attractions.

    $2.0-2.3b for a new park doesn't tell me that they've learned this lesson.
    Down with the Hat


  6. #21

    • Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    4,291

    Re: Shanghai Disney Theme Park to be announced this week

    I'm not too sure about Disneyland Paris, but all sources I've read indicate that Tokyo DisneySea cost $3.3-$3.4 billion on its own (confirmed in one of the documentaries about the park released shortly after opening). All the information I've read states that the MiraCosta's own cost was seperate from the park and may have been as high as $1.1 billion. Adjusted for inflation, I can certainly see the $4.9 billion figure RandySavage posted. Apparentely, their official press release was a bit hesitant in publishing the true cost of the park. Those close to the people who worked on the project have leaked that they admitted to going over the original budget, which makes it hard to actually determine the true and total cost of the park.
    ~ Tokyo DisneySea’s Arabian Coast at nighttime ~


  7. #22

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    976

    Re: Shanghai Disney Theme Park to be announced this week

    Quote Originally Posted by tasman View Post
    The cost of the Paris park as far as I know was also in the 3 billion USD range, though that likely excludes the hotels and other resort elements
    The financial summaries of the HK Legislative Counsel succinctly and accurately state the costs of DLP and the original TDLhttp://www.legco.gov.hk/yr08-09/english/sec/library/0809fs30-e.pdf)

    "At first, the project [DLP] cost was estimated to be about US$1 billion. When the theme park was completed, cost escalated to $5 billion due to a number of design and construction changes. Between 1992 and 1994, a combination of reasons led to financial difficulty at Euro Disney: the $4 billion debt posed a huge financial burden on the park, interest rates were double the original estimates, tourist spending was lower because of recession in Europe, half of the revenue projected to come from real estate development did not materialize as a result of the collapse of the property market in France, a strong franc which made it expensive for visitors, and low attendance which fell below the expected annual 10 million for the period."

    According to the 2000 Legislative Counsel financials (http://www.legco.gov.hk/yr99-00/engl...ry/990in02.pdf), Tokyo Disneyland originally cost $1.4bn and DisneySea was projected to cost $3bn. Wikipedia (don't put much stock in it) says DisneySea ballooned to over $4bn.

    Under these financials the cost of HKDL (excluding reclamation, but including hotels, roads, etc.) was $1.8bn:
    http://www.legco.gov.hk/yr08-09/engl...0809fs28-e.pdf

    *****

    Now that we have as official numbers as can be found, the idea is to see what kind of theme park that amount will buy you in today's dollars (granted there are many factors such as labor cost which do not make this a perfect science).

    Tokyo Disneyland: $1.4bn (1983) --> $3.0bn (2009)

    Euro Disneyland Resort: $5.0bn (1992) --> $7.6bn (2009)

    Hong Kong Disneyland Resort: $1.8bn (1999) --> $2.3bn (2009)

    DisneySea (inc Miracosta): $3.5bn (2001) --> $4.3bn (2009)

    So, if $3.6bn (2009) is being injected into the Shanghai Disney Resort, you can expect something more significant than HKDL Resort, but not at the level of DisneSea/MiraCosta.


    As for the notion that either TDS or DLP did not have enough attractions at opening...I think that idea is / was devoid of any merit.
    Debatable.

    “Once we opened EuroDisneyland we knew that we needed two things; thrill rides and quick capacity. We had literally picked the crown jewels of the Disneyland model and I think we opened that park environment richer than any we have ever done before. However we needed things to distribute the crowd and let them vanish into the environments. So we added the Passage of Aladdin and Fort Comstock walk-throughs, a new train station, Casey Jr., Le Pays des Contes de Fées [Storybook Land Canal Boats] and Les Mystères du Nautilus [Mysteries of the Nautilus]. We also built Indiana Jones and the Temple of Peril as the park only had Big Thunder Mountain in the original attraction mix that was a thrill ride so the park needed something else." - Tony Baxter.

    I think the majority of park-goers expect rides - particularly if they have multiple days booked at a Disney hotel. So it's safe to say that WDI knew from the opening that they would quickly need to expand the attraction roster or risk attendance drop-off (which happened anyway - potentially due to world of mouth about lack of rides). And when that first new e-ticket, Space Mountain, was added, the park finally began drawing enough crowds to turn its first profit.



    ***

    As far as DisneySea not having enough attractions at opening... OLC opened its coffers and mandated WDI to build the greatest park they could - something that would be as big a draw as its hugely popular neighbor. While TDS achieved its attendance goals, insiders like LeeMac at Laughingplace have made repeated statements that park attendance somewhat disappointed the OLC - so much so that they moved quicker than anticipated to add Raging Spirits (deja vu Temple du Peril) and Tower of Terror.
    Last edited by RandySavage; 10-29-2009 at 10:46 PM.

  8. #23

    • Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    4,291

    Re: Shanghai Disney Theme Park to be announced this week

    That's a huge figure for the original EuroDisneyland Resort. Not including the 7 hotels, I wonder just how much the individual park cost to build.
    ~ Tokyo DisneySea’s Arabian Coast at nighttime ~


  9. #24

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    976

    Re: Shanghai Disney Theme Park to be announced this week

    There have been books written on the Eurodisney fiasco ("Once Upon an American Dream", "Disney War" which puts the total at $4bn 1992 dollars)... among the reasons for the soaring costs:

    1. Eisner and Tony Baxter agreed that in competing with the great art & architecture of Europe, DLP would have to be an ambitiously upscale version Disneyland (e.g., rather than the stateside fiberglass mock-up, DLP's castle would be a spectacular fantasy invention, made of pink stone and gold leaf, with handcrafted stain-glass windows and fire-breathing dragon in the dungeon). WDI was encouraged to think freely and without regard to cost.

    2. Eisner wouldn't budge on the opening date, and contentious french labor unions used this fact to constantly stall and then negotiate premiums.

    3. Eisner was enamored with "starchitecture" and hired a number of premium firms to build the many hotels.

    4. Operating costs.

  10. #25

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    177

    Re: Shanghai Disney Theme Park to be announced this week


  11. #26

    • Watch Your Language
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Planet D23
    Posts
    1,883

    Re: Shanghai Disney Theme Park to be announced this week

    Quote Originally Posted by Giraffe Lounge View Post
    The Municipal Gov of Shanghai can't announce it now because the announcement has to be made by Central Government of China, that is, officials at Beijing.

    and according to the news here. Announcement is expected to be made by Beijing first, then Shanghai later at a date before 15th November 2009.

    90% of the agreement between Shanghai and Disney are firm. They still have to sort out some minor differences. The deal would also include media rights for Disney in China.

  12. #27

    • MiceChat Round-Up Crew
    • How do you do?
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Chickapin Hill
    Posts
    10,907
    Blog Entries
    6

    Re: Shanghai Disney Theme Park to be announced this week

    Last edited by yoyoflamingo; 11-03-2009 at 04:50 PM.
    It's a Zip-A-Dee-Doo-Dah...Tip for Today!










  13. #28

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    305

    Re: Shanghai Disney Theme Park to be announced this week

    Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank-you yoyoflamingo!!!!!!
    -Tyler

  14. #29

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    976

    Re: Shanghai Disney Theme Park to be announced this week

    Nice breaking news find.

    This timeline from HKDLSource.com is an example of how things may develop:

    August 1998 Hong Kong Disneyland announced
    2 November 1999
    Disney and The SAR Government form Hong Kong International Theme Parks Limited and announce initial plans
    10 December 1999
    Official signing of agreement between Hong Kong SAR Government and The Walt Disney Company.
    Summer 2000 Land reclamation project for Hong Kong Disneyland site begins
    November 2002
    Plans for the two Hotels are unveiled
    January 2003
    Ground is broken on Phase I Construction
    23 September 2004
    Castle-topping ceremony
    25 April 2005
    Disney Resort Line Train (MTR) in unveiled
    1 August 2005
    MTR service begins
    15 August 2005
    Inspiration Lake opens to public
    12 September 2005
    Hong Kong Disneyland opens to the public

  15. #30

    • is too darn hot.
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    It's all about the LBC, yo!
    Posts
    14,849

    Re: Shanghai Disney Theme Park to be announced this week

    Ugh, why? Why not make HKDL a better park? As it is, more Australians travel to California rather than Hong Kong to visit Disneyland despite the difference in distance. I thought that that sort of tourism was the reason HKDL was built.
    The Right Honorable Count Boogie Bonz of Random, at your service.

    On Track for Weight Loss!


Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. City of Shanghai to announce Disney Theme Park sometime around Olympic Games 2008
    By HongKongDisneyland in forum Hong Kong Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 03-19-2008, 07:21 PM
  2. Comments from Disney CEO on Shanghai Disney Theme Park and HKDL,Reuters,2006-8-9
    By HongKongDisneyland in forum Hong Kong Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 08-22-2006, 04:51 AM
  3. Shanghai to relocate residents for Disney theme park - report,Forbes,2006-8-8
    By HongKongDisneyland in forum Hong Kong Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 08-10-2006, 09:37 PM
  4. Disney has picked Chuansha at Pudong,Shanghai, the location for its theme park
    By HongKongDisneyland in forum Hong Kong Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 08-07-2006, 08:41 AM
  5. Disney to Open Shanghai Theme Park in 2012 - Bloomberg, 8/1/05
    By Darkbeer in forum MiceChat News Archive
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-31-2005, 06:20 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •