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  1. #1

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    Shanghai Cutbacks

    This was beginning to be discussed in the "work halts" thread, but deserves its own thread since it's separate news.

    If true, the Lutz-dropped rumor that the Park is being reduced to 3 lands from 5 lands (on opening day) sounds like bad news to theme park enthusiasts following its development - incomprehensibly repeating the "half-built" strategy that has been a proven money-loser for years.

    One thing that comes to mind is how much it costs WDI to build things. For example, the FLE is supposedly costing Disney $450 million (while Potterland cost around $330m with its groundbreaking E+ticket ride), the Mater flat ride is supposedly costing $100m according to Al, the Mermaid ride with its static plastic figures (in addition to a handful of very nice AAs) costing north of $100m. It's been said by insiders and ex-Imagineers that WDI has become a fairly bloated organization, where it costs much more to do things than it should... and by outside accounts this appears to be the case.

    Then there is this rumor about the PotC attraction for Shanghai:
    "Screamscape sources tell us that while Shanghai Disneyland will have an Adventureland, the new Pirates ride and themed surrounding area will actually become it’s own designated land tentatively called Pirates Cove. Speaking of the unique high-end version of Pirates of the Caribbean, it’s been said again that it will be themed entirely on the movies and not based on the other rides. One juicy detail of the new ride system claims that the mostly slow moving boat ride may include some exciting new technology on-board, that will use a magnetic linear-induction (LIM) system to control the speed of the boats through certain portions of the dark ride. Not only will this “supernatural” force be used to push the boats around, but apparently it may cause the boats to “tailspin” at one point and get pulled “backwards” in another."

    Sounds fantastic, and I sure hope it gets built, but can you imagine what it would cost the current WDI to build this (with lots of modern AAs)... $400 mil? $500 mil? If the park's budget is set (which I believe it is) at $3.7 billion, and WDI's operational costs have ballooned like they have, it would seem to follow that they can't build everything they thought they could at that budget.

    But isn't it the case that a new model is being employed (more shopping out to third parties) in order to bring down operational costs. If this rumor is true, it looks like it might not be working.

  2. #2

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    Re: Shanghai Cutbacks

    Blue Sky has an update about Shanghai that reveals more detail on what is coming.

    Blue Sky Disney: Blue Sky Buzz: Shanghai Hopes...


    ImagineerWarrior

  3. #3

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    Re: Shanghai Cutbacks

    Why do I have a bad feeling that this might become HKDL all over again?

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    Re: Shanghai Cutbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by ImagineerWaryur View Post
    Blue Sky has an update about Shanghai that reveals more detail on what is coming.

    Blue Sky Disney: Blue Sky Buzz: Shanghai Hopes...


    ImagineerWarrior
    Thanks for the link. It reveals some interesting stuff. For me it seems Disney didn't cut back, they just don't build a Frontierland, because of the negative meaning of the word Frontier in China.

    Although I'm excited about the TRON ride, I'm a little bit sad that there will be no Space Mountain. For me that's a ride that should be in every Magic Kingdom. WDI just shouldn't build such a lame version like in Florida. Maybe a Discovery Mountain version, like the one that was envisioned for DLP, would have been a good choice.

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    Re: Shanghai Cutbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by toonaspie View Post
    Why do I have a bad feeling that this might become HKDL all over again?
    Because you may be right. Because may be the company never learn from its mistakes.

    Actually, if SDL has only three lands, considering there is no Main Street at SDL there will be LESS lands in SDL than in HKDL (as Main Street is counted for a land, generally). But may be they will count the big garden in front of the castle and the castle itself as a land...

    ---------- Post added 08-17-2011 at 10:57 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Dagobert View Post
    Thanks for the link. It reveals some interesting stuff. For me it seems Disney didn't cut back, they just don't build a Frontierland, because of the negative meaning of the word Frontier in China.
    Actually, so many chinese worked and died helping to build the american railroad tracks in the 19th century that indeed 19th century western times don't remind them good memories. Add to this the opium wars and how China has been humiliated by occidental countries during the same 19th century and you'll understand why a Frontierland really didn't had its place at SDL.

  6. #6

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    Re: Shanghai Cutbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by loaloa55 View Post
    Because you may be right. Because may be the company never learn from its mistakes.

    Actually, if SDL has only three lands, considering there is no Main Street at SDL there will be LESS lands in SDL than in HKDL (as Main Street is counted for a land, generally). But may be they will count the big garden in front of the castle and the castle itself as a land...
    Goodness, that sounds about right! More bushes could be considered toilets in the gardens then.

    What's wrong with WDI if all these incurred costs seem to deliver merely adequate attractions? I mean, it still boggles my mind how "cheap" WWoHP is in IoA. Crazy spending in Disney? And yet, we know that some parks are not maintained well-enough.

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    Re: Shanghai Cutbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by loaloa55 View Post
    Because you may be right. Because may be the company never learn from its mistakes.

    Actually, if SDL has only three lands, considering there is no Main Street at SDL there will be LESS lands in SDL than in HKDL (as Main Street is counted for a land, generally). But may be they will count the big garden in front of the castle and the castle itself as a land...

    ---------- Post added 08-17-2011 at 10:57 PM ----------



    Actually, so many chinese worked and died helping to build the american railroad tracks in the 19th century that indeed 19th century western times don't remind them good memories. Add to this the opium wars and how China has been humiliated by occidental countries during the same 19th century and you'll understand why a Frontierland really didn't had its place at SDL.
    In my opinion it doesn't matter how many lands the park will have as long as there are enough rides to attract people and keep them inside for a whole day, better would be for one and a half or two days. The park should have a size like DLP had on opening day. I also think that Frontierland and Adventureland could be merged into one single Adventureland. DLP's Adventureland has two sections, the Oriental and the Pirates part. WDI could do the same in Shanghai and devide Adventureland in several sections, like the West or China or the Orient.

    Thanks for the informations about the meaning of Frontier in China.

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    Re: Shanghai Cutbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Dagobert View Post
    Although I'm excited about the TRON ride, I'm a little bit sad that there will be no Space Mountain. For me that's a ride that should be in every Magic Kingdom. WDI just shouldn't build such a lame version like in Florida. Maybe a Discovery Mountain version, like the one that was envisioned for DLP, would have been a good choice.
    That's something I've always been curious about. Why is the MK Space Mountain considered inferior by many fans?

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    Re: Shanghai Cutbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by SirEdge View Post
    That's something I've always been curious about. Why is the MK Space Mountain considered inferior by many fans?
    I've only been to DLRP and WDW and so I don't know the SM in Tokyo, Hong Kong and Anaheim.

    In my opinion WDW's SM is lame, because it is old and just a gravity coaster with a boring track layout.

    DLP's version is a launch coaster with onboard audio and the track features a looping and a corkscrew. Traveling to outer space is wild an rough and not slow and boring.

  10. #10

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    Re: Shanghai Cutbacks

    I think it is a bit strange the way they plan things. They want to build a resort that will pack people in it for ages to come. Yet they donīt want to spend a fortune. Do they really expect people to go to and return to a place that is nothing but a good looking park with a few standard rides themed to movies no one ever herd of? Disney and Shanghai needs to wake up and understand that the succes of Disneyland almost costed Walt his entire Disney.
    The world according me: http://www.youtube.com/user/TimmyME

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    Re: Shanghai Cutbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Dagobert View Post
    I've only been to DLRP and WDW and so I don't know the SM in Tokyo, Hong Kong and Anaheim.

    In my opinion WDW's SM is lame, because it is old and just a gravity coaster with a boring track layout.

    DLP's version is a launch coaster with onboard audio and the track features a looping and a corkscrew. Traveling to outer space is wild an rough and not slow and boring.
    Ah in that case, all the SM are pretty lame, since DLP is the only one with a launch system.

    Back to Shanghai, it's curious what motivates the development of this in the first place.

    If it's a purist goal of learning from their mistakes in HKDL, and making a better park, then it seems like they're failing. Is the Disney name under such threat in China that they need to establish their presence in the territory?

  12. #12

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    Re: Shanghai Cutbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by SirEdge View Post
    Back to Shanghai, it's curious what motivates the development of this in the first place.

    If it's a purist goal of learning from their mistakes in HKDL, and making a better park, then it seems like they're failing. Is the Disney name under such threat in China that they need to establish their presence in the territory?
    '

    Exactly. I know Shanghai is the most populated city in China but it's not really that far from Hong Kong. Its like a 2 hour flight. Pretty close for Disney parks. And Hong Kong is better situated geographically for international visitors like from Australia/South Pacific area as well as easier to enter into. HKDL is so underwhelming right now and looking at aerial maps, there is plenty of room for it to expand. There seems to be room for more lands in HKDL, as well as room for a second park, a Downtown Disney, more hotels and maybe even a water park. And still have room. It just seems Disney would be MUCH better off spending the cash on making Hong Kong Disneyland a true multi day resort (and avoiding things like Toy Story Land) than creating another underwhelming park.

  13. #13

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    Re: Shanghai Cutbacks

    Shanghai is far enough away for a Disney park. It's about the same as if you left Florida or California and headed to Texas. That's geographically about the equivalent of Hong Kong to Shanghai. And the population of people within driving distance is around 300 million. That's as much as the entire United States. That is why this park is being built.

    I'm not going to pass judgement on it till I see more. It may turn out to be great, I don't think that it'll be the same as HKDL because most of the bean counters in charge back then are gone.


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    Re: Shanghai Cutbacks

    ORWEN: Now I know why the castle they're building for this park isn't going to be named after any particular princess. It's because of the cutbacks. If they did name it after a particular princess they'd have to pay that princess 'royalties' (pun intended) and that would cause them to be over budget. So it's cheaper for them to just build a generic castle that has no identity...

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    Re: Shanghai Cutbacks

    If the report in Blue Sky Disney is representative of the cutbacks, it should still be better than HKDL... although, I'm still curious about the local flavor of the park that keeps getting brought up. I'm cautiously optimistic again, since the local enthusiasm seemed to serve TDL well.

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