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  1. #1

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  2. #2

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    Re: Six Flags declairs bankruptcy



  3. #3

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    Re: Six Flags declairs bankruptcy

    I am so happy that Six Flags parks are operating while that this bankruptcy is simply in order for them to restructure and become more fiscally efficient.

    Six Flags is smarter than the banking, insurance and automotive industries lumped together. None of them seem capable of filing a Chapter 11 and restructuring. All that they know how to do is to ask the federal government to bail them out, run their compamis for them, bail them out again, run their companies even more for them, bail them out again, run their companies even more for them, bail them out again, run their companies even more for them, bail them out again, run their companies even more for them, bail them out again, run their companies even more for them, bail them out again, run their companies even more for them, bail them out again, run their companies even more for them, bail them out again, run their companies even more for them.....and then either agree with the government and unions to run them completely, or else file for final bankruptcy and sell their respective companies to other entities...after having blown off billions in taxpayer dollars.

    Seems like these days, people don't attend college in order to start a meaningful career. There are no jobs, no entry level careers, and there isn't any meaning. American students attend college in order to understand how (through their studies and learned skills) how it is that they are being ripped off by government, unions and corporations...so that they can gripe about it while using professional terms, historical knowledge and statistical facts.

    Meanigless non-job producing degrees are well worth the thousands of dollars per capita for tuition and books...and the thousands in owed dollars per capita for the increasing numbers of students that have to take out student loans.

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  4. #4

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    Re: Six Flags declairs bankruptcy

    Higher education is the next economic bubble to burst. All those loans from expensive private universities and colleges are going to go bust when the graduates can't find decent jobs to pay the money back.

    As for Six Flags, I think they'll come out of Chapter 11 okay. They seem to have solid management these days and quite a few of the parks themselves are sustainable and even profitable.

  5. #5

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    Re: Six Flags declairs bankruptcy

    They even said it... they are just trying to wipe out that debt they racked up buying up all those parks.

    It's really a lame example of how people can abuse bankruptcy. Spend uncontrollably, then walk away from your debt. Maybe the banks will eventually learn once they keep getting burned so bad.
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  6. #6

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    Re: Six Flags declares bankruptcy

    Kudos to Six Flags for facing up to reality.

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  7. #7

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    Re: Six Flags declares bankruptcy

    SO even though they are under ch11, they wont shut down?

  8. #8

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    Re: Six Flags declares bankruptcy

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyFan28 View Post
    SO even though they are under ch11, they wont shut down?
    correct - which is the usual. Chp 11 is a reorganization... not liquidation.
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    Re: Six Flags declairs bankruptcy

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    It's really a lame example of how people can abuse bankruptcy. Spend uncontrollably, then walk away from your debt. Maybe the banks will eventually learn once they keep getting burned so bad.
    How is this an abuse of bankruptcy? Mark Shapiro didn't spend the company into where it is today, someone else did that. Shapiro needs to deal with the debt somehow, and this bankruptcy is needed because the debt is coming due & he doesn't have a magical money fairy that can make $400M just appear out of nowhere.

    ANY debtor will tell you that they'll take something over nothing. That's why bankruptcy exists. It's being used to fully-intended purpose here, from all sides.

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  10. #10

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    Re: Six Flags declairs bankruptcy

    Quote Originally Posted by PeoplemoverMatt View Post
    How is this an abuse of bankruptcy? Mark Shapiro didn't spend the company into where it is today, someone else did that. Shapiro needs to deal with the debt somehow, and this bankruptcy is needed because the debt is coming due & he doesn't have a magical money fairy that can make $400M just appear out of nowhere.

    ANY debtor will tell you that they'll take something over nothing. That's why bankruptcy exists. It's being used to fully-intended purpose here, from all sides.
    Exactly Matt.

    I wonder how people would be reacting if this was Disney not the evil Six Flags.


  11. #11

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    Re: Six Flags declairs bankruptcy

    Quote Originally Posted by PeoplemoverMatt View Post
    How is this an abuse of bankruptcy? Mark Shapiro didn't spend the company into where it is today, someone else did that
    WTH does current management have to do with owing one's obligations or not? The company - Not Mark Shapiro - racked up the debt and should have to face it. They've been a cluster-f for the last decade and racked up billions in debt. Now, instead of further liquidating assets, they get to walk away from those 'oops'. The reality is there probably aren't buyers for them to liquidate to - but to be able to just wipe the slate clean and keep going as is crap.

    The fact they were able to rack up nearly 2 billion in debt and even liquidating so many parks already they have barely made a DENT in that debt shows that

    a) the prices originally paid were absurd
    and
    b) the company still is not efficient enough to be able to take those sales and directly pay down debt.

    It's just like the car companies right now - you can wipe out the debt, but unless you fix the core issues - you'll be right back where you were in due time.

    Six Flags of the last 15+ years is a the poster child of fake growth through obscene borrowing and the house of cards should be taken down completely.
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  12. #12

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    Re: Six Flags declairs bankruptcy

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    WTH does current management have to do with owing one's obligations or not? The company - Not Mark Shapiro - racked up the debt and should have to face it. They've been a cluster-f for the last decade and racked up billions in debt. Now, instead of further liquidating assets, they get to walk away from those 'oops'. The reality is there probably aren't buyers for them to liquidate to - but to be able to just wipe the slate clean and keep going as is crap.
    Well if you see this as crap, then I'm guessing you see the bankruptcy code in general as crap. Can't really help you there, but, as I said, this bankruptcy is serving the very reasons why the bankruptcy code exists.

    And the slate isn't being wiped clean. After the bankruptcy, SF will still owe $600M of the debt. The bankruptcy just gets the debt down to something manageable, unlike the $2.5B amount. SF's credit rating/bond rating also takes an enormous hit as a result of bankruptcy.

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus
    Six Flags of the last 15+ years is a the poster child of fake growth through obscene borrowing and the house of cards should be taken down completely.
    Well seeing as the U.S. government has engaged in much the same practices, I'm assuming you'd say the same thing about Washington?

    Really, the whole point of this bankruptcy is to get the debt down to something that they can live under, survive, and go forward as a company. Right now, the alternative is that the debtholders get almost zero. Since the debtholders have already agreed to the agreements needed for the bankruptcy to be completed, there shouldn't be any problems here.

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  13. #13

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    Re: Six Flags declairs bankruptcy

    Quote Originally Posted by PeoplemoverMatt View Post
    Well if you see this as crap, then I'm guessing you see the bankruptcy code in general as crap. Can't really help you there, but, as I said, this bankruptcy is serving the very reasons why the bankruptcy code exists.
    Chapter 11 serves to allow a company to reorganize without the burden of collections so the company can re-emerge and return to a stable, sustainable position. Chapter 11 is intended to harbor a company long enough for it to reestablish itself. It is not intended for a 'get out of jail free card' so you can just walk away from your debts.

    Where exactly is Six Flags re-organizing or changing their business to return to sustainability? They are just looking to get out of their debt burden. If it were so great for the debt holders as you claim - why didn't they just renegotiate outside of bankruptcy?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeoplemoverMatt View Post
    Well seeing as the U.S. government has engaged in much the same practices, I'm assuming you'd say the same thing about Washington?
    I do - come into the Debate Lounge more often.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeoplemoverMatt View Post
    Really, the whole point of this bankruptcy is to get the debt down to something that they can live under, survive, and go forward as a company. Right now, the alternative is that the debtholders get almost zero.
    The debt holders could get a lot in liquidation. My point is what is Six Flags doing beyond burning their previous obligations to fix the company? Chp 11 Bankruptcy should be there to free you up to make the changes you could not before. So what changes is Six Flags making beyond walking away from debt?
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  14. #14

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    Re: Six Flags declares bankruptcy

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus
    Where exactly is Six Flags re-organizing or changing their business to return to sustainability? They are just looking to get out of their debt burden. If it were so great for the debt holders as you claim - why didn't they just renegotiate outside of bankruptcy?
    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus
    My point is what is Six Flags doing beyond burning their previous obligations to fix the company? Chp 11 Bankruptcy should be there to free you up to make the changes you could not before. So what changes is Six Flags making beyond walking away from debt?
    When was the last time you went to a Six Flags park? I can't speak for any park besides Six Flags Magic Mountain, but there have been TONS of changes made in the past 3+ years that have done wonders to improve the place.

    There is a renewed emphasis on cleanliness, service, restoration of existing structures, refurbishment of reliable coasters and the removal of unreliable ones, and the bringing in of brand names in food service and in-park advertising in general. These changes and others have upped the revenue stream, but there's still a LONG way to go in terms of fixing everything that needs to be fixed after Premiere's absolute mess.

    You say Ch. 11 is intended to harbor a company long enough for it to re-establish itself? That's exactly what's going on here with Six Flags.

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