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  1. #226

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    PragmaticIdealist, nice to have you join our thread.

    While I mostly intended this topic to focus on news developments related to actual rail construction projects being planned, funded and constructed, I also welcome armchair engineers if for no other reason, I enjoy hearing other ideas.

    LA has no plans for any monorails but there's a chance the connector from Disneyland Resort to ARTIC will select monorail technology.

  2. #227

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    If the Mayor wants his subway to the sea in the next decade, he'd be wise to go with the monorail proposal, instead, and ensure that residents on the West side have mitigation for their NIMBY concerns.

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    The thing is, they want the trains which run under Wilshire, heavy rail subways, to keep moving passengers from Downtown without transferring trains.

    This is the most dense corridor, and can support ridership of this expensive alternative.

  4. #229

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    BTW the city of Beverly Hills is no longer antisubway and Waxman lifted the ban on tunneling through his district.

  5. #230

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    Lots of good information here, thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by PragmaticIdealist View Post
    We also need light-rail or a B.R.T. that runs along P.C.H. and that hugs the coastline. The Pacific Electric Red Cars once stretched as far South as Newport Coast.

    The Southern California Association of Governments has a long-range vision for high-speed trains that not only includes the San Francisco/Sacramento-to-Irvine-via-Los Angeles/Anaheim Line and the Los Angeles-to-San Diego-via-San Bernardino Line. SCAG also envisions L.A.-to-Phoenix-via-San Bernardino, Long Beach-to-San Bernardino-via-Anaheim/Corona/Downtown Riverside, and San Bernardino-to-Las Vegas/Salt Lake City/Denver-via-Victorville. Service along the last route would be accomplished with magnetic levitation since the corridor to Nevada, Utah, and Colorado is so mountainous.

    Southern California would have three high-speed train hubs in this configuration: Los Angeles with service in three directions; Anaheim with service in four directions; and, San Bernardino with service in five directions. San Bernardino is also expected to get Metrolink feeder service from Palm Springs and Victorville, in addition to the proposed Perris Valley Line and the proposed extension of the Riverside Line. Adding the existing service on the San Bernardino and Inland Empire-Orange County Lines, San Bernardino would be the hub for a grand total of six separate commuter rail routes and would, in so doing, re-establish itself as southern California's third urban core, especially with the completion and connection of the new San Bernardino International Airport, the light-rail system to and from Redlands, and the seven new sbX B.R.T. tramways. A fixed-guideway link to and from Big Bear Lake is also being studied at present, as is a circulatory canal system in the city center. The first phase of these watercourses is now undergoing preliminary engineering, and the new multimodal station and T.O.D. village there is currently in design. SCAG has even started discussing running the L.A. Metro Gold Line along the foothills of the San Gabriel Mountains to San Bernardino, as well, even though an intermodal connection with Metrolink in Claremont/Montclair should suffice in the near term.

    Intermodal connectivity is very important for high-speed rail and other transit modes. That fact argues in favor of an H.S.T. station in downtown Pomona because of the walkability there, in Long Beach because of the maritime port and the L.A. Metro Blue Line, and in Escondido because of the Sprinter line to and from Oceanside.

    We need to drastically change the way we move around southern California, and these new investments in transportation infrastructure will ensure better land use, air quality, traffic flow, economic sustainability, and general quality of life. The way freeways, automobiles, and petroleum dominate our lives here cannot continue. We need more walkable places that are connected better like they were when the Pacific Electric Red Cars were king and when Walt Disney was proposing monorail systems and transit-oriented EPCOT's.

  6. #231

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    Now what's also interesting to discuss is Orange County is still focused on having the most modern, wide and heavy capacity roadways / freeways. Los Angeles County is spending it's transportation revenues on several rail projects.

    Apart from the AFG from ARTIC to Harbor Blvd., and tram through the Irvine Great Park, the only rail project in the OC is the HSR to Los Angeles that will start in Anaheim.

    Ten years from now OC residents will only have congested freeways to get themselves to work whereas LA residents will have a web/nexus of rail lines to put them at a short bus tansfer to their jobs around the county without drivng throgh traffic.

  7. #232

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    Orange County is so backwards and regressive in its unhealthy attachment to suburban models to the exclusion of everything else. The saving grace is that there are a fair number of B.R.T. lines that have been proposed by the O.C.T.A. The advantage of that mode is that it can be implemented relatively quickly. Old Town Orange, San Juan Capistrano, downtown Santa Ana, Laguna Beach, and a few other places have potential, though, and Anaheim and Irvine are, at least, trying to change their ways.
    Last edited by PragmaticIdealist; 12-14-2009 at 08:45 AM.

  8. #233

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    In fact, a high-speed rail station in Santa Ana probably makes more sense than the one proposed for Irvine since the county seat was planned as a walkable place with an interconnected street grid and since the older city could probably use some infill development.

  9. #234

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    CenterLine light rail
    The CenterLine, a 9.3-mile light rail system serving Irvine, Costa Mesa and Santa Ana, was originally planned in the 1990s, and was intended to open in 2009.

    Costing $1 billion USD, the route would have served destinations including John Wayne Airport, South Coast Metro, South Coast Plaza, Santa Ana College, and downtown Santa Ana. While OCTA had secured funding through Measure M, lack of support from most of Orange County's congressional representatives resulted in no funds from the Federal government. In February 2005, the CenterLine was suspended indefinitely, and later in May 2005, the plan was officially canceled in favor of researching express bus service throughout Orange County and improvements to Metrolink.

    When the line was initially being planned, it was envisioned as a 30-mile route that would run from Fullerton to Irvine, through Anaheim, Orange, Santa Ana, and Costa Mesa. However, a lack of public support led to numerous truncations; Orange was initially removed from the route, followed by Anaheim.
    Orange County Transportation Authority - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  10. #235

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    CenterLine map from OCTA
    (See map on Page 10)
    http://www.ocgrandjury.org/pdfs/gjcenterline.pdf

    It was further truncated to this proposal:



    http://calstate.fullerton.edu/news/img/shim.gifhttp://calstate.fullerton.edu/news/img/shim.gif http://calstate.fullerton.edu/news/i...s/img/shim.gif[]
    CenterLine Starter System

    http://calstate.fullerton.edu/news/r...enterline.html
    http://calstate.fullerton.edu/news/research/2003/photo/centerline_map.jpg
    Last edited by NeverNeverland; 12-18-2009 at 05:54 PM. Reason: hotlinked pictures removed

  11. #236

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
    CenterLine map from OCTA
    (See map on Page 10)
    http://www.ocgrandjury.org/pdfs/gjcenterline.pdf
    Interesting read. Costa Mesa wanted it below grade for its section, which meant that Santa Ana's section would have to start going below grade way before the border was hit.
    Probably one of the reasons it was killed.

    From Page 5:
    The Federal Transit Administration, which is likely to provide
    one-half of the funds for construction of the proposed system, requires that each city
    approve the route alignment through its city. This veto power makes local political
    considerations even more of a challenge than the considerable engineering and financial
    challenges.

    Like The Articles of Confederation!
    Last edited by sediment; 12-14-2009 at 03:21 PM.
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  12. #237

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    Map: A Beefed Up Vision of High Speed Rail in the West


    A group of municipal associations combined forces last week to advocate for more high speed rail in Western states, announcing the formation of a new high speed rail group called the Western High Speed Rail Alliance.
    At issue for them is less than enthusiastic vision of high speed rail in the West.

    In an editorial, the Arizona Republic agrees: "Major Western cities, including Phoenix, were left off the map in federal plans for high-speed rail. Now, five of them are refusing to be overlooked. How preposterous. Air-travel figures show the Phoenix-Los Angeles route, for instance, should be a prime candidate for rail: It’s the nation’s third-busiest short-haul connection (less than 500 miles)…."

    In a press release, the group also notes that "McCarran International Airport in Las Vegas is one of the busiest short-haul airports in the country, shuttling 3.7 million passengers from Las Vegas to Los Angeles alone in the year ending March 2009.

    The overall vision of the group is to build "a Denver to Los Angeles corridor via a high-speed rail network with regional “hubs” in Las Vegas, Salt Lake City, Denver and Phoenix as well as linkages from Denver to Salt Lake City to Reno and ultimately connection to San Francisco, CA,"

  13. #238

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
    LV-LA is first.
    PHO-LA is third.
    Um, so what's second?

    Boston-NY?
    LA(all of LA area)-SF(all of Bay Area)?

    IMO, the LV-LA and LA-PHO lines are more feasible, since there is absolutely nothing in the way for hundreds of miles. I like the idea of a San Berdoo hub, connecting Anaheim (and SD), LV, PHO, LA Union Station, and maybe SF to the north if they can figire out the best path. (From San Berdoo, Tahachapi Pass -- passing by a beefed-up Palmdale Airport -- is probably best.)
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  14. #239

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    Metro Looking to Expand Gold Line Further than East LA


    http://laist.com/assets_c/2009/01/1-metroeast-thumb-76x76-53470.jpg ]http://laist.com/assets_c/2009/01/2-metroeast.jpg-thumb-76x76-53471.jpg http://laist.com/assets_c/2009/01/3-metroeast-thumb-76x76-53472.jpg http://laist.com/assets_c/2009/01/4-metroeast-thumb-76x76-53473.jpg http://laist.com/assets_c/2009/01/6-metroeast-thumb-76x76-53475.jpg[

    When the Gold Line Eastside extension opens ... that won't be the end of the line if Metro gets their way. Metro staff has four light rail routes they are studying and proposing that would go from unincorporated East LA to the possibility of other cities such as Monterey Park, Whittier, Montebello, El Monte and others.
    Continue reading "Metro Looking to Expand Gold Line Further than East LA"
    Last edited by NeverNeverland; 12-18-2009 at 05:52 PM. Reason: hotlinked pictures removed

  15. #240

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    How far is Whittier from Santa Ana?

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