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  1. #541

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    CA: I had heard the Arco Towers (long since renamed) but The Hotel Bonaventure might have done it too - any of the newer high-rises (and that's the majority of them) that were built past the late 1950's when the subway tunnels were "abandoned forever" could have done it. You'd need an old system map and overlay it with the current landscape on top.

    And Politicians would LOVE to recycle the old tunnels if the routing is right, and I can point out exactly why - A Politician's favorite song to sing is "Me, me, me, me, meeeee! I, I, I, I, Iiiiiiii!!" A politician and a hot mike and a live camera are Really Hard to seperate.

    The Pol wants to get something done DURING THEIR TERM that they can attend the Grand Opening of, point to, and say "Look at it! I got this done for you! Re-Elect me to another term, and there are even more wonderful things I can get done for you!"

    You can rehab and open an old existing tunnel in a matter of three or four years - even with major rework needed in spots you already have a stable tunnel there, entrances and exits that connect to an established ROW, rudimentary ventilation and lighting utilities in place, often the old tracks are still good enough to use for transporting materials in and out, etc. There will still be a fair amount of 'pouring concrete' before it's all done.

    Dig the same tunnel from scratch, and now you are talking 10 to 20 years from groundbreaking to opening, and the mystery geology of the route. No politician is really willing to push for it if he won't see the benefits during his (or her) term in office. And they really don't want to hand that golden moment to the next person in the office.

    --<< Bruce >>--
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  2. #542

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    Good points. Now, the article I just posted addresses Sepuveda Pass and a busway down Van Nuys. Shouldn't they be one in the same thing? An orange-line from Sylmar to Westwood, that goes down Van Nuys and Sepulveda.

  3. #543

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    There are a lot of full buses every day from Van Nuys to LAX. Clearly there is a need for more massive transit for that route.
    These buses don't stop anywhere, though.
    At least one stop for VA Hospital/Wilshire, to connect with subway or bus line down Wilshire, whichever is eventually planned.

    Just bugs me every time I get on The 405, only to be delayed by a widening project. NO! Put a monorail down the middle, go over low overpasses (The 101), go under high overpasses (Mulholland), make other overpasses higher (um... Burbank Blvd? Or just build around it into Sepulveda Dam area), still working on entry to LAX...
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  4. #544

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    This Thursday marks a turning point in the decades-long effort to bring mass rapid transit to the Westside of Los Angeles. That’s when I, along with my colleagues on the Exposition Metro Line Construction Authority Board, will cast a crucial vote on extending the Expo Line from Culver City to Santa Monica.

    I intend to vote yes, and here’s why.
    All aboard Expo to the Westside | Zev Yaroslavsky

  5. #545

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
    As mass transit upgrades are being paid for by Measure R, the board members have a right to bring it to any area they see fit.
    To Boldly Go Where No MiceChatter Has Gone Before!


  6. #546

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    Gold Line Foothill Extension to Break Ground Saturday

    Gold Line Foothill Extension to Break Ground Saturday - LAist

    10 years in the making, on Saturday the first phase of the Gold Line Foothill Extension -- Pasadena to Azusa -- will break ground (.pdf). The 11-mile light rail extension will go through five cities with six stations. Those cities are Arcadia, Monrovia, Duarte, Irwindale, and Azusa (where two stations will be built).

    After Phase 1 is completed, sights will be set on the second phase, connecting the train to Montclair, which would make for an estimated 40-minute ride to Pasadena and 75-minute one to downtown Los Angeles. Cities served during the second phase would be Glendora, San Dimas, La Verne, Claremont, and Montclair. A link to the Ontario Airport, which is owned by the city of Los Angeles, is under study.

  7. #547

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    Wow! So much is happening now. Could you possibly post pictures of some of the progress, CA?
    To Boldly Go Where No MiceChatter Has Gone Before!


  8. #548

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    I don't know how to photobucket, bro.

  9. #549

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    California rail transportation: Lawmaker calls for leadership changes in high-speed rail authority - latimes.com

    Lawmaker calls for leadership changes in high-speed rail authority

    State Sen. Alan Lowenthal, chairman of the transportation committee, says high-speed rail directors should not also serve on local transportation boards. The ban would prevent a conflict of interest, he says.

    The proposal is aimed most immediately at two prominent Los Angeles and Orange County board members — Anaheim Mayor Curt Pringle and Richard Katz, board member of the Los Angeles County Metropolitan Transportation Authority.


    "I appreciate the senator's concerns; he has raised lots of legitimate questions," Katz said. "But he is taking a pretty big shotgun to something that is minor and can be easily resolved other ways."

    Their position is backed by Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa, who says policy makers serving with several transportation agencies can better understand high-speed rail as it relates to commuter rail, public transit and communities.

    As the complex plan to link San Francisco, Los Angeles and San Diego with 200-mile-an-hour trains advances, Lowenthal said in an interview this week that the project must be shielded from the parochial agendas of local officials who sit on the board.

    "These members really represent local interests. And they're there to protect local interests rather than represent statewide interests," Lowenthal said.
    MAP:
    http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...710037.graphic

  10. #550

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
    Map tells me that HSR to Vegas should start in Mojave. Assuming that it this North-South Route can ever be built.
    Straight across The 58 or the current rail Right-of-Way to Barstow.
    That allows Central Valley and Bay Area residents to get to Vegas. Surprised the casinos haven't gotten behind these concepts.
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  11. #551

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by sediment View Post
    Map tells me that HSR to Vegas should start in Mojave. Assuming that it this North-South Route can ever be built.
    Straight across The 58 or the current rail Right-of-Way to Barstow.
    That allows Central Valley and Bay Area residents to get to Vegas. Surprised the casinos haven't gotten behind these concepts.
    No, the Las Vegas HSR Line should start in Las Vegas and work it's way to Barstow or Mojave - wherever it can meet up with the Metrolink and Amtrak "Medium-Speed" rail lines. If the target moves while they are busily constructing their system, they can re-enter the coordinates in the targeting, with little loss of forward momentum.

    That way, even if the California HSR System is stillborn or takes a lot longer to get built than planned, the moment the Las Vegas HSR is ready to open the passengers could take Metrolink or Amtrak MSR from any stop along the way to the end of the line, then change trains for Vegas. And reverse that coming home.

    A bit more hassle and a bit slower than taking a HSR train all the way, but well worth the hassle if you avoid sitting in that Sunday Evening 300-mile Cha-Cha Line of 'stop and slow' traffic coming home...

    I don't even go to gamble, but when I need to do a convention I avoid driving out on Friday afternoons and usually stay over Sunday night just to allow for a nice leisurely drive home.

    (Of course there was that one time I had to be back Monday - So I threw it into 4WD and followed one of those Little Dotted Lines on the map to avoid the worst of the backups. Didn't save a lot of time, but the continuous forward motion and change of scenery was wonderful for the sanity.)

    --<< Bruce >>--
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  12. #552

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Bergman View Post
    No, the Las Vegas HSR Line should start in Las Vegas and work it's way to Barstow or Mojave - wherever it can meet up with the Metrolink and Amtrak "Medium-Speed" rail lines. If the target moves while they are busily constructing their system, they can re-enter the coordinates in the targeting, with little loss of forward momentum.
    Not sure if this is that much different from what I said. From Mojave, the HSR would have to go through Barstow on its way to Vegas.
    It would travel both ways, I hope.
    I just don't think a Mojave option should be dismissed for the Victorville option of one of the competing lines, especially if the North-South HSR line will go through Mojave. For those going from Central Valley to Vegas, it would beat having to travel all the way to Union Station first.

    But, sure, the Vegas HSR line should start construction in Vegas, since that terminus is sure. Where in Vegas is still unknown, but I think we discussed in this or the closed thread that anywhere along the current Right-Of Way from The Rio to The Plaza (where downtown train station used to be, I think) would be cromulent enough.
    Next stop south would be Primm.
    After that, the right of way takes a drastic southeastern turn away from The 15. Probably to lessen the elevation changes. Doesn't meet up again with The 15 until Barstow. Would a HSR follow The 15 right-of-way? That's a pretty high pass to go through.
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  13. #553

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    No, you have to stick with the current rail ROW, even though it deviates from the highway and bypasses Baker and other "Garden Spots"...

    Freight trains don't like grades of over 1-1/2%, and passenger trains can take that limit up to 2% to 2-1/2% - even more for short distances, but there's a huge fuel penalty for doing so. And the hassles of stopping to hitch up 'Helper' engines at one end of the grade and stopping again to drop them at the other, and other crutches. So the tracks tend to follow the natural terrain through river valleys and natural canyons, with the occasional tunnel punched through a hill.

    To the point that when they're approaching the 1-1/2% limit and the planning is getting tough, they start thinking tunnels and trestles and big horseshoe curves following a canyon wall to gain the elevation more gradually per track mile. At the mouth of the canyon there's a trestle as the track crosses itself 60' or 100' higher.

    Even if the route looks like a snake sleeping on a map, they can get the trains from Point A to Point B faster and safer (they have to slow it on the downhill side somehow, and that isn't as easy as it looks) and using less fuel.

    Now then... The current Metrolink terminus is in San Bernardino - two lines, the San Bernardino Line heads due West and splits the 10 and 210 headed back to L.A. Union Station. The Inland Empire / Orange Co. Line heads mostly south, and you can transfer from the Riverside Line and the 91 Line in Downtown Riverside.

    BNSF is working on a third track between San Bernardino and Barstow all the way, so passenger service can speed up dramatically on that line. Either establish a new "Victor Valley Line" on that path or extend one of the other routes, and meet the Vegas HSR in Barstow.

    Or go on to Victorville - start a bidding war, find out which city "wants it more". (Not tax concessions per se, but intangibles like "Transit District" regional planning, local area transit connections (including perhaps a "Dial A Ride" for the off hours) and setting aside enough space to build the line and grow it with the region.

    For Amtrak connections, the Southwest Chief goes LA Union Station, Fullerton, Riverside, San Bernardino, Victorville, Barstow, Needles, before it turns the wrong way (straight east instead of northeast) to Kingman AZ. Several possible interconnect points.

    My main point being GET STARTED NOW and it'll be ready to ride inside of 10 years. The traffic is there, the only fine point being exactly where the main rail transfer points are and who runs the connecting trains past that point to L.A. and San Fran and San Diego. And how fast they go, if the CA HSR isn't ready yet and it probably won't be.

    Sit and hem and haw and debate and bicker for ten years, and it'll be ready in 25, maybe 30 - the enviro-nuts will figure out new ways to block and delay... Who the (heck) wants to waste another 10 years as the I-15 freeway slowly solidifies into a 300-mile-long parking lot - even after they widen it out to eight and ten lanes all the way...

    Or better, Nevada widens their half out to generous proportions and (just like the I-5 at the L.A./O.C. line) California doesn't and creates a huge choke-point just west of Stateline.

    --<< Bruce >>--
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  14. #554

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    According to that article it sounds like Anaheim mayor Pringle expects precious HSR dollars to go towards funding ARTIC. What if every stop on the line expected an intermodal transit center to be included at their station, all the money would go to stations.

    I'm all for ARTIC but OCTA needs to pay for it themselves.

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