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  1. #556

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
    According to that article it sounds like Anaheim mayor Pringle expects precious HSR dollars to go towards funding ARTIC. What if every stop on the line expected an intermodal transit center to be included at their station, all the money would go to stations.

    I'm all for ARTIC but OCTA needs to pay for it themselves.
    HSR could pay for its share of costs.
    I think ARTIC should be built with HSR expansion in mind. HSR station would be on a second floor, so this makes it a little harder logistically. Last thing it will want to do is build a second floor platform for nothing.
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  2. #557

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    CityWatch - An insider look at City Hall

    An interesting read, folks.

  3. #558

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
    CityWatch - An insider look at City Hall

    An interesting read, folks.
    Very nice.

    Hey, someone's been reading us!
    Ditto for the need to really figure out how the Westside and San Fernando Valley will be connected with some sort of transit project, because the planning and configuration of a full Subway to the beach will need to weigh whether such a Westside-Valley line links up with the Purple Line at Wilshire/Westwood or at a proposed Wadsworth VA Hospital station.
    I think I said something like this a few days ago. I proposed monorail from Van Nuys Flyaway. It might require three times as many parking spaces (people in The Valley loooooove going to the beach).
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  4. #559

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    I've heard that hot weather bends the rails and slows down the transit trains. Now that the summer is starting to heat things up...have the trains been moving slower?
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  5. #560

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
    CityWatch - An insider look at City Hall

    An interesting read, folks.
    It's great news that the Foothill Gold Line will open sometime in 2013 0r 14. Hopefully, San Gabriel Valley will be able to come up with a doable plan for gaining funding.
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  6. #561

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    Wonder what the speed of stateside high speed rail will be as compared with that of Japan's bullet trains.
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  7. #562

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by Ride Warrior View Post
    I've heard that hot weather bends the rails and slows down the transit trains. Now that the summer is starting to heat things up...have the trains been moving slower?
    Not if the rail lines are designed properly. That's why the entire distance across those long desert plains the track does a series of lazy S-turns back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, back and forth...

    You do NOT run the rails arrow straight for ten miles at a stretch, because intense sunlight heats the rails and they grow a few inches a mile as they get hot - and that's more than enough force to create a "Sun Kink" where it pops the spikes and jumps off the ties to relieve the pressure. Problem being, now that the rail is loose the train won't stay on top of it - Derail. And a derail at 175 MPH tends to be rather horrific.

    That's also why the ties are bedded in a deep field of compacted gravel, instead of being cemented to permanent footings sunk deep in the ground - the gravel allows the rails to move a little. The Sun heats the rails, the track expands as it heats, and the gravel gives under the pressures to let the S-bends get a little bit wider. And when it cools at night, it shrinks in the reverse direction to relieve the pressure.

    This is why they have to come along every year or two with a work train (in the old days, a crew of men did this by hand) and re-level the roadbed. It doesn't always move evenly, some of the covering gravel gets shoved underneath the ties and one side starts going high. And some of the covering gravel gets shoved off to the sides a quarter inch at a time, and the ties get exposed.

    You can see that in Ventura County if you follow Wooley Road in Oxnard and the VCRR main line - it goes arrow straight for a quarter mile then makes an S-bend jog ten feet to the south right before a grade crossing. then there's another S-bend before the next grade crossing. and at the next, and the next... Then it makes the sweeping turn down Patterson Road.

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  8. #563

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Bergman View Post
    Not if the rail lines are designed properly. That's why the entire distance across those long desert plains the track does a series of lazy S-turns back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, back and forth...

    You do NOT run the rails arrow straight for ten miles at a stretch, because intense sunlight heats the rails and they grow a few inches a mile as they get hot - and that's more than enough force to create a "Sun Kink" where it pops the spikes and jumps off the ties to relieve the pressure. Problem being, now that the rail is loose the train won't stay on top of it - Derail. And a derail at 175 MPH tends to be rather horrific.

    That's also why the ties are bedded in a deep field of compacted gravel, instead of being cemented to permanent footings sunk deep in the ground - the gravel allows the rails to move a little. The Sun heats the rails, the track expands as it heats, and the gravel gives under the pressures to let the S-bends get a little bit wider. And when it cools at night, it shrinks in the reverse direction to relieve the pressure.

    This is why they have to come along every year or two with a work train (in the old days, a crew of men did this by hand) and re-level the roadbed. It doesn't always move evenly, some of the covering gravel gets shoved underneath the ties and one side starts going high. And some of the covering gravel gets shoved off to the sides a quarter inch at a time, and the ties get exposed.

    You can see that in Ventura County if you follow Wooley Road in Oxnard and the VCRR main line - it goes arrow straight for a quarter mile then makes an S-bend jog ten feet to the south right before a grade crossing. then there's another S-bend before the next grade crossing. and at the next, and the next... Then it makes the sweeping turn down Patterson Road.

    --<< Bruce >>--
    Interesting information. Thanx, Bruce! the S-bends and compact gravel embedding sound like they compensate for the bending and swelling of heated tracks quite well...or "Sun kink" as you had mentioned. Shame on that kinky ol' sun!
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  9. #564

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    Streetcar Planned for Downtown Not Included in Latest Round of Federal Funding

    Honestly, I think it was a waste of money. Build the "Regional Connector" and get Gold and Blue and Expo lines joined together through the heart of Downtown. Between that and the subway, Downtown LA's needs should be met.

  10. #565

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    Post Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    California state panel defends ridership and revenue estimates for high-speed rail project [LA Times]

    Yesterday, the California High-Speed Rail Authority directors met in downtown, a meeting that was at least partially blogged live by the California High-Speed Rail blog. The Los Angeles Times was also there, and reports that High-Speed Rail members disputed a recent study questioning ridership and revenue estimates (long-simmering issues).

    Meanwhile, the Associated Press reports that environmentalists are upset by a possible proposal on the part of the High-Speed Rail Authority to "dig under Los Angeles State Historic Park and much of the artifacts buried underneath. A coalition of said the 'cut and cover' technique would dig up the park, previously known as the cornfield, make it unusable for years and damage artifacts from the city's early history." And in related news, Meg Whitman is speaking out against high-speed rail. “Meg believes the state cannot afford the costs associated with high-speed rail due to our current fiscal crisis,” said the Republican gubernatorial candidate’s spokeswoman Sarah Pompei in an e-mailed statement to the Sacramento Bee.

  11. #566

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    I agree with Meg. Costs are too great. Maybe if some private company wants to build it and then run it, then use state laws and regulations to make the building less red-tapish.
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  12. #567

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    As jet fuel and gasoline make driving and flying considerably more expensive in the future we will be glad we made an investment in an alternative that can transport people around our great state. This is a huge state with more people than any other in America and I think we will put it to good use.

  13. #568

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
    As jet fuel and gasoline make driving and flying considerably more expensive in the future we will be glad we made an investment in an alternative that can transport people around our great state. This is a huge state with more people than any other in America and I think we will put it to good use.
    There aren't enough people who HAVE TO travel around the state who would travel on this one specific route.
    We'll be dead by the time that investment pays off. Meanwhile, the state is broke today.
    I like the idea. But not at any cost, which is exactly what this would turn out to be.
    If anything, I'd like to start at one end, and slowly expand it as demand grows.
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  14. #569

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    The first section will open between LA and Anaheim, if memory serves.

  15. #570

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
    The first section will open between LA and Anaheim, if memory serves.
    Really? I think that will be the most difficult one to build. So much urbanization between them.

    Thinking more like, say, SF to Modesto or LA to Bakersfield.
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