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  1. #811

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    They're trying to cut passengers down by 90% first.

  2. #812

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
    You don't see the firestorm approaching when we open a high speed rail line from Modesto to Fresno? How many passengers need to pay a premium to travel at high speed between these two cities? This doesn't bode well unless we secure the funds to either connect into LA or SF. Even then, if it doesn't connect the Bay Area to Southern California, it's not going to have passengers.
    Meh. Gotta start building somewhere. I think building somewhere that has a built-in market (SF-San Jose, LA-Vegas, LA-San Diego) would be a lot smarter. Merced-Fresno-Bakersfield doesn't have this. RW's friend might be Lyle Langley.
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  3. #813

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
    You don't see the firestorm approaching when we open a high speed rail line from Modesto to Fresno? How many passengers need to pay a premium to travel at high speed between these two cities? This doesn't bode well unless we secure the funds to either connect into LA or SF. Even then, if it doesn't connect the Bay Area to Southern California, it's not going to have passengers.
    True, BUT. You have to start somewhere, and their logic goes it's best to start on an easy and fast to build section and then they can run and debug the equipment.

    Of course, I think it's more of "get one segment running = get the Camel's Nose inside the tent". Get it started, and then they can whine "You can't cut the funding! We can't stop now, we have to finish this..."

    Okay, start at One End and work towards the other, and open the line as each segment is done and useful to riders. Or start in Los Angeles and work both towards San Diego and Sacramento, and the Frisco folks can start heading towards Sacramento from their end. If they open each segment to regional commuters as it's done, then the line will be useful as it is still under construction.

    And if they build all the station platforms along the line as Sidings, they can space the stations far closer than otherwise practical. The Commuter trains that each make 10 or 15 stops along the line and take four or five hours to make the trip will stop in one of the stations and wait - while the San Francisco to L.A. Nonstop Express (and vice versa) cruises by on the mainline, and can actually get up to and hold the speed needed to make the run in about two hours.

    It costs more to build a double mainline and station sidings and passing sidings - but then they can do so much more with the system. And they can keep it open during most maintenance and repair work, just close one track at a time and have the trains go around on the siding.

    Oh, and they can always use the excess capacity on the under construction line to shuttle some of the construction supplies out to the end of the line, on their own line with hybrid Electric/Diesel freight locomotives. Concrete ties, ballast, and the 1/4-mile lengths of continuous rail. Just drop the pantograph and start the engines at the end of the powered catenary/3rd Rail and keep going.

    --<< Bruce >>--
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  4. #814

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
    You don't see the firestorm approaching when we open a high speed rail line from Modesto to Fresno? How many passengers need to pay a premium to travel at high speed between these two cities? This doesn't bode well unless we secure the funds to either connect into LA or SF. Even then, if it doesn't connect the Bay Area to Southern California, it's not going to have passengers.
    Not many. If I had my way, I would have HSR start in LA and move northward. As it stands, the plans appear to be to start in the middle of the San Joaquin Valley, and then sporadically extend the track north and south at different times. If the recession deepens, this could further negatively impact the ridership, which would be thin to begin with.
    To Boldly Go Where No MiceChatter Has Gone Before!


  5. #815

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by sediment View Post
    Meh. Gotta start building somewhere. I think building somewhere that has a built-in market (SF-San Jose, LA-Vegas, LA-San Diego) would be a lot smarter. Merced-Fresno-Bakersfield doesn't have this. RW's friend might be Lyle Langley.
    I wish the project was slated for a more populated area, sediment. I'd rather see it start in LA than San Francisco, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Bergman View Post
    True, BUT. You have to start somewhere, and their logic goes it's best to start on an easy and fast to build section and then they can run and debug the equipment.

    Of course, I think it's more of "get one segment running = get the Camel's Nose inside the tent". Get it started, and then they can whine "You can't cut the funding! We can't stop now, we have to finish this..."

    Okay, start at One End and work towards the other, and open the line as each segment is done and useful to riders. Or start in Los Angeles and work both towards San Diego and Sacramento, and the Frisco folks can start heading towards Sacramento from their end. If they open each segment to regional commuters as it's done, then the line will be useful as it is still under construction.

    And if they build all the station platforms along the line as Sidings, they can space the stations far closer than otherwise practical. The Commuter trains that each make 10 or 15 stops along the line and take four or five hours to make the trip will stop in one of the stations and wait - while the San Francisco to L.A. Nonstop Express (and vice versa) cruises by on the mainline, and can actually get up to and hold the speed needed to make the run in about two hours.

    It costs more to build a double mainline and station sidings and passing sidings - but then they can do so much more with the system. And they can keep it open during most maintenance and repair work, just close one track at a time and have the trains go around on the siding.

    Oh, and they can always use the excess capacity on the under construction line to shuttle some of the construction supplies out to the end of the line, on their own line with hybrid Electric/Diesel freight locomotives. Concrete ties, ballast, and the 1/4-mile lengths of continuous rail. Just drop the pantograph and start the engines at the end of the powered catenary/3rd Rail and keep going.

    --<< Bruce >>--
    You are correct in your assessment that testing has an impact on the decision as to where the construction will start.
    To Boldly Go Where No MiceChatter Has Gone Before!


  6. #816

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    It was widely believed befoe this announcement that the LA to Anaheim section would be the first one built, since the planning and EI statements are further along than any other segment.

  7. #817

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
    It was widely believed befoe this announcement that the LA to Anaheim section would be the first one built, since the planning and EI statements are further along than any other segment.
    LA taxpayers have also shown the initiative (unlike any other area) to raise financing money.
    To Boldly Go Where No MiceChatter Has Gone Before!


  8. #818

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    Controversy Over High-Speed Rail's Starting Point, Big Decision Tomorrow

    It's been a week since the California high-speed rail authority announced they were recommending a starting point for the bullet train--a 65-mile stretch of the Central Valley starting in Madera, north of Fresno, and south to Corcoran (with stations in Fresno and Hanford to be built). Some newspaper writers have come with guns drawn, saying the starting point is indicative of the porkiness of the whole project. Criticizing numerous aspects of the train, including the route, the OC Register editorial board on Monday called for a dismantling of the high-speed rail authority. That article referenced a piece by the Sacramento Bee's Dan Walters, who wrote that the choice of starting point was politically motivated as the Obama administration, a few days before the election, promised the rail authority $715 million if the train started in Central California's San Joaquin Valley. Local congressman and bullet train supporter Jim Costa managed to narrowly win his election as a result of the announcement, Walter implies.
    In defense of the route

  9. #819

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort


  10. #820

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    Fresno folks can go get Superior Ice Cream for dessert, be home by bed time!
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  11. #821

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    Seriously, why do I feel like this is the first nail in the coffin?

  12. #822

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
    Seriously, why do I feel like this is the first nail in the coffin?
    May be you're finally on the rigth track (heehee) that this thing costs way more than it can ever be beneficial for.
    Again, lower the cost of it, like to a tenth of it, and it's a financially sound investment.

    Again, I'm for it, but only at a tenth of the current cost projections. Heck, I'd rather see this thing.

    The Straddling Bus - The 50 Best Inventions of 2010 - TIME


    It is an over-traffic bus. Heck, let it run over The 405!!

    Or this car:
    http://www.time.com/time/specials/pa...029707,00.html


    Or this:

    http://www.time.com/time/specials/pa...029817,00.html
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  13. #823

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    You know even a high speed commuter train from San Diego to Los Angeles would make more sense than this potential boondoggle (???) in the San Joaquin.

    You know you have problems when CaliforniaAdventurer is losing faith in mass transportation! I haven't lost it, Ride Warrior but I'm being tested.

  14. #824

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    What do you think of those innovations from Time Magazine?
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  15. #825

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    I hate the OVER TRAFFIC bus, especially for drivers in China. It should be called the Accident Magnet.

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