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  1. #1111

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    I'm not as pessimistic.

  2. #1112

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    Not pessimistic. Realistic. About the current attempt to make medium-speed common rail.

    French company had it right: build it in the freeway median. There. Very little land to buy. Its own rail, so no slowing down; it can go as fast as the design can handle. Fewer stops.
    I want to be optimistic about that idea. Someone killed that buzz.
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  3. #1113

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    I suppose if you think the median is "free land" and that this resource should be liquidated right away, that's your answer.

    Building transit-oriented development much less stations with vital intermodal transportation centers with ample parking and amenities - gone - while using up freeway growing room, and distracting those separated drivers with bullet trains all at the same time.

    And when it's time to widen the 5 it's urbanized and cost prohibitive from LA to San Francisco.

    Let's not knee-jerk think this.

    And if the Feds are only financing the rural low passenger areas of the state so be it.

    ---------- Post added 08-14-2012 at 02:37 PM ----------

    Further, perhaps local municipalities should weigh in and share the cost for their preferred method of grade separation in each area of SoCal and the Bay Area.

    If Menlo Park wants a tunnel, they can pay for what's above baseline.

    ---------- Post added 08-14-2012 at 02:39 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by PragmaticIdealist View Post
    Ugh... Equivalent highway and/or airport capacity is more than twice the cost of high-speed rail. Can we stop with the misinformation campaign?

    Every other industrialized country in this world apparently can "afford" high-speed rail, but ours, evidently, is full of too many politicians who are in the pockets of the oil industry. This country will never get its act together as long as we continue allowing moneyed interests to dictate public policy.
    +1

  4. #1114

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
    I suppose if you think the median is "free land" and that this resource should be liquidated right away, that's your answer.

    And when it's time to widen the 5 it's urbanized and cost prohibitive from LA to San Francisco.
    I believe this is what happened in parts of the Bay Area.

    I went to a game years ago on BART. My friend who lives in the East Bay drove us to Walnut Creek and we took the train. He told me when it was being built the whole push was it will reduce traffic and be faster. While it's faster, traffic had a blip on the radar and decreased, but still had the usual problems months later. Now that growth to the east has been huge, the freeway no longer has that median to move into and and the problems are worst.

    I've never seen numbers behind this, but the Gaints won.

  5. #1115

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    There are three tunnels (parallel, not serial) from Oakland to Walnut Creek. That will always be the most expensive part of any freeway expansion.
    In short, BART allowed the expansion to happen sooner. People with jobs in town near BART stations found homes near other BART stations.

    And there's always the old, "if people don't like it, they can leave," philosophy. I lived up there for two years, perferred the BART ride, and preferred a warm summer over a cold one. Couldn't afford it forever, got a job in SoCal.

    No, C.A., Fresno does not need its own station. Nor Visalia. Nor San Fernando, for that matter.
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  6. #1116

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    Fresno and Visalia will grow if they're an hour away from LA OR SF, don't you think?

  7. #1117

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    Why do I care if they grow or not? They're probably overgrown for their infrastructures already.

    Put a station at Kettleman City. Watch it grow. That's only an hour from Fresno/Visalia, so Fresno/Visalia would be two hours from SF/LA.

    And, if the track needs to veer off from The 5 to Fresno/Visalia, it can, in the further future. That could be a great way to have a non-stop option: track is clear for the non-stop because the stopped train one is off a siding to Fresno.

    The route was a political choice, not the most economical one. Fresno legislatures need to stay in office, too.
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  8. #1118

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    I'm not willing to give up the only likely chance to see HSR from LA to San Francisco in my lifetime over a few quibbles.

  9. #1119

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    Billions of dollars are quibbles?
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  10. #1120

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    When we are talking about HSR we are talking about billions.

  11. #1121

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
    I'm not willing to give up the only likely chance to see HSR from LA to San Francisco in my lifetime over a few quibbles.
    But that's the point - Already it's been watered down to where it isn't High Speed Rail anymore, it's just a money grab that'll be "medium-speed" at best if they stick to putting Diesel-Electric powered passenger trains on the existing tracks like they're talking.

    And if they do build that actual electrified and Grade Seperated HSR segment from Corcoran to Chowchilla (or Noplace to Nowhere) that isn't physically connected to the rest of the state's rail network it probably will never built out past the initial segment because that doesn't actually GO anywhere.

    So the build Corcoran to Chowchilla - the people in Visalia don't have the political clout to get it extended there next, it'll just turn into a huge Boondoggle and stop. Well, except for the Rail Bonds, no matter how they waste the money we'll still be paying them off for the next 30-50 years...

    That kind of political clout takes the people in a huge terminus city like LA or SFO pushing for the next segment to get built so they can all go build homes there and "get out of the City."

    And then they'll push to get the train out even further so that next HSR stop turns into their Retirement home with easy access back to the city, and when their kids inherit the first house they can rent it out as income property... With that kind of pressure it *will* get finished eventually.

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  12. #1122

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    This may be a bit off the current topic, but I thought this would be the appropriate thread to post this question (please redirect me if I'm wrong).

    It's been several years since I bussed to Disneyland on OCTA, but since I'll be staying at a hotel just a few blocks away this weekend, I am considering doing it again to save on parking costs. The trip planner lists the Shuttle Area in front of DL on Harbor as a bus stop for route 43, but it's not listed as an official stop on the Route 43 schedule (just Katella and Harbor is). Can anyone confirm there is a stop at the Shuttle Area?

    Thanks in advance...

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  13. #1123

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by Rex View Post
    This may be a bit off the current topic, but I thought this would be the appropriate thread to post this question (please redirect me if I'm wrong).

    It's been several years since I bussed to Disneyland on OCTA, but since I'll be staying at a hotel just a few blocks away this weekend, I am considering doing it again to save on parking costs. The trip planner lists the Shuttle Area in front of DL on Harbor as a bus stop for route 43, but it's not listed as an official stop on the Route 43 schedule (just Katella and Harbor is). Can anyone confirm there is a stop at the Shuttle Area?

    Thanks in advance...
    Not sure, but it probably does - the Disneyland Resort is the 900-Pound Gorilla in the area, and between Tourists, CM's and other area workers, a good chunk of their passengers on that line probably get off & on there...

    {Edit:} If you look at the Route 43 Timetable, that is condensed for space and only lists key intersection stop times that people need for making Transfers. You need to look at the route map, they'll have a colored line showing the detailed path the bus takes and a dot or mark at each official stop. Maybe a list too. For the arrival times you'll have to extrapolate from the timed stops on either side of yours. {end}

    Call Disneyland, OCTA Welcome To The Orange County Transportation Authority , or check the Anaheim Resort Transportation (ART) Shuttle schedules at Anaheim Resort Transportation . If your hotel is in the immediate area, the ART Shuttles are probably a better bet.

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    Last edited by Bruce Bergman; 08-23-2012 at 10:37 AM. Reason: Added paragraph after thinking a bit
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  14. #1124

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    I'd say this thread is the perfect place for a question like that.

    I'll say that it probably is. I'm nowhere near DL, so I can't confirm. Perhaps a regular passenger will find this thread and chime in. If not there, then it will certainly stop at Katella.
    The 43 map does take note of the Metro 460 that stops at Disneyland, so I'm guessing with even more confidence that the 43 stops at the DL entrance.

    But, a couple of blocks: you might as well hoof it.
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  15. #1125

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    The US Federal Railroad administration granted approval Wednesday for the first segment of the California high-speed rail project--a 65-mile section from Merced to Fresno. A 24-mile stretch from Madera to Fresno will be the first part to start work early next year. Meanwhile, the federal government announced today that officials are fast-tracking approvals and permits for the whole 114-mile Madera to Bakersfield stretch, a move that will speed up the first section's opening by six months. [SF Chronicle]
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