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  1. #1396

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    HIGH SPEED RAIL NEWS:

    Revealed: 4 Concepts For Major Union Station Makeover

    Which one do you like? I think the high speed rail tracks should be upstairs from the other trains, keep it consolidated and simple.

  2. #1397

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    Of course it should be above.
    I'd turn it slightly more northward, as the Gold Line, I think, goes upward.

    On the south side, yeah, that's a bit of a sharp turn, but Union Station will always be a stop on the HSR. Gonna have to slow down anyway.


    But, looking at Google, there are a pair of tracks heading underground toward Union Station at the east end of Ducommun Street. I can't see if they come out someplace else. Old Red Car tunnels? High-security entrances for Presidents and such?

    EDIT: Oho! wiki is my friend. It states that those tunnels lead to Red line terminus under Union Station. The tracks head to maintenance facility at Santa Fe and 4th!

    That's why the "Under Alameda" choice is not going to be feasible.

    Should have included Red Line route on that "existing conditions" map. It cuts a NW/SE route under Union Station (it makes a big right turn on its way into Union Station from under Hill Street). The maps shown are already tilted with true N being in a NW direction.
    Last edited by sediment; 05-01-2013 at 07:42 PM.

  3. #1398

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    I like that they will not back into the station, that's for sure. I'm guessing to put the supports in, it's easier to build and less disruptive to the current trains.
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  4. #1399

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    Another benefit: It will look cool gliding into town.

    It will be iconic. People will want to get on it.

  5. #1400

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by sediment View Post
    Of course it should be above.
    I'd turn it slightly more northward, as the Gold Line, I think, goes upward.

    On the south side, yeah, that's a bit of a sharp turn, but Union Station will always be a stop on the HSR. Gonna have to slow down anyway.


    But, looking at Google, there are a pair of tracks heading underground toward Union Station at the east end of Ducommun Street. I can't see if they come out someplace else. Old Red Car tunnels? High-security entrances for Presidents and such?

    EDIT: Oho! wiki is my friend. It states that those tunnels lead to Red line terminus under Union Station. The tracks head to maintenance facility at Santa Fe and 4th!

    That's why the "Under Alameda" choice is not going to be feasible.

    Should have included Red Line route on that "existing conditions" map. It cuts a NW/SE route under Union Station (it makes a big right turn on its way into Union Station from under Hill Street). The maps shown are already tilted with true N being in a NW direction.
    The Key Features section in the article says that the Under Alameda option would require the HSR rails to be at a depth of 100 feet so that it could pass below the Red and Purple Lines. That's an interesting option because it would create a huge underground concourse that could basically house a whole shopping mall. It probably would be very expensive, but I'm not sure it's not at all feasible.
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  6. #1401

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    First of all welcome back Uncle Bob.

    I say: Yeah, ixnay on the oppongmallshay - I'm all for big ideas but this project's just limping along let's not put another expensive build onto it. If the developers of Hollywood & Highland want to do that show me a proposal and pre-sign tenants.

    The high end stores in front of the Dolby Theater are a ghost town. 7th & Fig didn't work underground until they converted it to Target plus a couple of restaurants.

  7. #1402

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by sediment View Post
    Of course it should be above.
    I'd turn it slightly more northward, as the Gold Line, I think, goes upward.

    On the south side, yeah, that's a bit of a sharp turn, but Union Station will always be a stop on the HSR. Gonna have to slow down anyway.
    It's a very Japan style arrangement. Separate, but near, platforms with their own fare gates to control access to the platform. Though I didn't read further into the article to see if that was the case here or not. Would be neat to see though.

    I just don't like that sharp turn. Yes, the trains may be able to make that minimum radius turn, but just because they can do it, doesn't mean they should. Sure, it will always be a stop on the route and they would need to slow anyways, but remember, they would need to keep slow to leave too. And if you want true high speed, that would be a problem.

  8. #1403

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    It's only half-a mile or so. The other ten stops on the way to SF are the real issue with HSR trip time. Oh, and the Tehachapi grade, too. Unless they want to build a loop (no, not the MiceChat trope loop).

    Now, if they want to go all eminent domain, they should simply go straight south, demolish a few buildings, and meet up with the southbound tracks at about 4th Street.

  9. #1404

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    Wow everyone has a lot of great ideas. You all may wish to take another look at this:

    Here’s a good Powerpoint doc on early findings of Union Station Master Plan process | Metro's The Source

    If the High Speed Rail station will dwarf Union Station, does that alter your opinions?

    Also, here is an article where Steve Hymon breaks down yesterday's news and answers a lot of questions:

    Draft alternatives released for Los Angeles Union Station Master Plan | Metro's The Source

  10. #1405

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    It's a railroad station. That is its purpose. Its purpose is not to look all historical while not actually being historical. (I need to check for some historical things.)
    I think digging is far too expensive just to "preserve" the background of the Union Station entrance.
    And the East of Vignes option is too far away. Will there be a train that takes people from the front of Union Station to way back there?
    That leaves a train that stops where the other trains stop, only a little higher up.

    OK, I'm looking through the PP presentation. Page 16 shows Union Station area as it is today. Lots of buildings around it. I can't see how above-ground HSR rails would make "the view" worse.

    Wiki says that tracks 3-10 are being extended as run-through tracks. No word on when this work is supposed to start or finish. Might as well build them with the HSR in mind.
    Last edited by sediment; 05-02-2013 at 10:10 AM.

  11. #1406

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    I don't know if anyone is invested enough in this to attend tonight's meeting, but I'll post the details in case there is any interest:

    The community workshop begins tonight at 5:30 p.m. in the Japanese American National Museum, Aratani Central Hall, 100 N. Central Avenue. The meeting will be broadcast online at LAUSMP on USTREAM: May 2, 2013 Community Workshop @ JANM. Other Events


    Streetsblog Los Angeles

  12. #1407

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    sepulveda pass project news:

    The [two LA mayoral] candidates have displayed moments of disagreement over the past couple of months, but this was one subject the two agreed on.

    “Having a transit which, in my opinion has to be rail, probably should be heavy rail, not light rail,” Garcetti said. “Because if you look at the number of passengers we have to alleviate, light rail probably wouldn’t do enough. [That rail would] go from the north San Fernando Valley basically to LAX, including a transit tunnel through the 405 pass that would allow you to be able to go essentially from Sherman Oaks to UCLA in five or ten minutes.”

    The topic of a tunnel under the Sepulveda pass has been talked about for years, but the city has never mustered up the money to start the project.
    http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2013/...epulveda-pass/

  13. #1408

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    The new station elements, walkways and such should be done in a complementing manner.

    Too often public spaces are built with a huge amount of dollars to make them look elaborate, or cheaply with only concrete and art to hide the eastern european communist style.

    It needs to be a simple and cheap building with a red roof and plaster coated walls. Cheap tile not imported marbles. A couple arches here and there. A couple bell towers.

    These projects get out of hand when some genius thinks they need a huge building full of open cavernous spaces with tons of angles and glass covered arches. See ARTIC.

    One things that really bothers me about the project.

    Slide 36 has things listed like hotel, markets, educations space, festival and event spaces. Let the free market build those on the lots nearby. There is a holiday inn and a Hilton with convention space near every major airport, the airport didn't build them the businesses did.

    It would be great to have pedestrian and bicycle routes to Little Tokyo, Chinatown and Dodger Stadium. Let the city build that stuff it has nothing to do with building a transit station other than bike racks.
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  14. #1409

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
    I don't know if anyone is invested enough in this to attend tonight's meeting, but I'll post the details in case there is any interest:

    The community workshop begins tonight at 5:30 p.m. in the Japanese American National Museum, Aratani Central Hall, 100 N. Central Avenue. The meeting will be broadcast online at LAUSMP on USTREAM: May 2, 2013 Community Workshop @ JANM. Other Events


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    What a wonderful age we live in that techno-broadcasts online can bring us live footage of events.

    Quote Originally Posted by swampymarsh View Post
    The new station elements, walkways and such should be done in a complementing manner.

    Too often public spaces are built with a huge amount of dollars to make them look elaborate, or cheaply with only concrete and art to hide the eastern european communist style.

    It needs to be a simple and cheap building with a red roof and plaster coated walls. Cheap tile not imported marbles. A couple arches here and there. A couple bell towers.

    These projects get out of hand when some genius thinks they need a huge building full of open cavernous spaces with tons of angles and glass covered arches. See ARTIC.

    One things that really bothers me about the project.

    Slide 36 has things listed like hotel, markets, educations space, festival and event spaces. Let the free market build those on the lots nearby. There is a holiday inn and a Hilton with convention space near every major airport, the airport didn't build them the businesses did.

    It would be great to have pedestrian and bicycle routes to Little Tokyo, Chinatown and Dodger Stadium. Let the city build that stuff it has nothing to do with building a transit station other than bike racks.
    "Complementary with character" is always better than "spare no expence" empirial fashion. I'm all for an ARTIC station that is streamlined and futuristic, but demonstrating budget savvyness should be part of that futuristic approach. Even though High Speed Rail is approved, a spending spree of fiscal abandon could set it back indefinitely.


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  15. #1410

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    Re: Mass Transit 2 the Disneyland Resort

    Los Angeles: SMALL RAILWAY capital of the world?

    Metro Day Pass: Small Railways

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