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  1. #31

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    Re: How About....A Trip Report!!!

    I just hope that when it actually opens, the plan well enough for the queue line- I'm sure it'll be even more popular than Monsters Inc- so will we be soon seeing lines going back to Mediterranean harbor?

    I'm sure it'll never be that bad, but it will be popular.

    I don't particularly agree with it fitting in well either- and I'm from NY.

    It could possibly somewhat fit in if they actually theme it on Coney Island- which, could lead to the Cyclone roller coaster as a future addition, as well as some other carnival type rides-god, stop them quickly or they would be following the original bad example of what happened with California adventure!!

  2. #32

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    Re: How About....A Trip Report!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by DuffyDad View Post
    I actually dread the trend this points towards so much now - understand and concur with your opinions so totally - that I kind of fear this thing.
    Here's something I posted earlier in the month:

    The new issue of Tales from the Laughing Place has an interesting article on the creation of Tokyo Disneyland (and a bunch of never-before-scene artwork).

    In it, Joe Lansizero (head of WDI for TDR) said some interesting(disturbing) things about the future of DisneySea. The gist is that in DisneySea, WDI built ports that were too specifically themed (i.e., 1932 South America, 1912 New York City rather than Adventureland which spans the globe (Caribbean-Tahiti) and centuries (1700s-1920s), and this is making it challenging to add entertainment/attracions in ways they deem desirable to most park-goers.

    Joes says:
    "We haven't thrown the themes of TDS out the window, but we have had to take a more lax view. We have to infuse more characters into the park, but they still need to be appropriate to each land." This means Pochahontas in the American Waterfront and Hercules in Mediterranean harbor.

    With respect to Turtle Talk, it sounds like it may not be as bad as I had initially feared (although time will tell). Joe said they are going to try to keep it somewhat time/place appropriate (an old-fashioned hydrophone will be used and Crush will not be a surfer dude (stereo-type doesn't exist in Japan), but a fun-loving dad).

  3. #33

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    Re: How About....A Trip Report!!!

    The gist is that in DisneySea, WDI built ports that were too specifically themed
    Utter, complete, unadulterated, pure and absolute balderdash.

    The key in all of this is “We have to infuse more characters into the park” which really means “cram in The Franchises!!!!!”. The park itself – as in the carefully created ‘alternate worlds’ built inside the gate – is nothing but a backdrop to a collection of stories, properties and merchandise being sold by The Walt Disney Company.

    How is not Duffy a character? In Tokyo at least, he sure seems to more popular than Pocahontas, Hercules, and Crush all put together. Why not take the ‘Midway Mania’ ride system and create an attraction for him? How about Harrison Hightower? Or how about using the ‘Mania’ trams for a “wacky tour” of the Zambini Brothers winery over in Mediterranean Harbor (flinging pizzas!)? Or how about a completely new and original (four letter words, I know)?

    But no one in Disney’s TV cartoon Burbank ghetto gets a dime from Duffy’s DVD sales.

    The problem isn’t that the ports of DisneySea are too limited; it’s that WDI is a marketing organization now. What they create amounts to window displays for the latest DVD release.

    Decorators are not the same as designers; marketers are not the same as storytellers.

  4. #34

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    Re: How About....A Trip Report!!!

    I haven't been paying much attention to this forum, so this is the first I've heard of BraviSEAmo going away. How long is it still there? I may have to plan a trip to see it one last time.

  5. #35

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    Re: How About....A Trip Report!!!

    It really drives me crazy when a park or land is designed so thoroughly by one team and then another comes along a few years later and finds the theme too restrictive. Dummies...I swear! This was/is the problem with DCA, AK, and now appears to be happening to TDS. Why bother doing it right in the first place then, if they can't be bothered to actually come up with good ideas that fit the theme, and even the time period. It's not as difficult as they make it out to be. I've seen so many attraction brainstorming ideas from fans that I'm sure WDI should be able to come up with even better ones, right, right??

  6. #36

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    Re: How About....A Trip Report!!!

    WDI is nothing but a project management & accounting firm these days. There's almost no "institutional memory" left at all - once you've finished with your project you're fired. The "creative" types who are left often owe their jobs to their corporate political skills more than their design talent.

    The genius of DisneySea came from ideas that had circulated through Disney for decades and from practiced designers who had learned lessons from the past.
    Last edited by Another Voice; 06-24-2009 at 10:09 AM.

  7. #37

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    Re: How About....A Trip Report!!!

    .
    Last edited by Another Voice; 07-03-2009 at 02:50 PM.

  8. #38

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    Sad Re: How About....A Trip Report!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by RandySavage View Post
    Here's something I posted earlier in the month:

    The new issue of Tales from the Laughing Place has an interesting article on the creation of Tokyo Disneyland (and a bunch of never-before-scene artwork).

    In it, Joe Lansizero (head of WDI for TDR) said some interesting(disturbing) things about the future of DisneySea. The gist is that in DisneySea, WDI built ports that were too specifically themed (i.e., 1932 South America, 1912 New York City rather than Adventureland which spans the globe (Caribbean-Tahiti) and centuries (1700s-1920s), and this is making it challenging to add entertainment/attracions in ways they deem desirable to most park-goers.

    Joes says:
    "We haven't thrown the themes of TDS out the window, but we have had to take a more lax view. We have to infuse more characters into the park, but they still need to be appropriate to each land." This means Pochahontas in the American Waterfront and Hercules in Mediterranean harbor.

    With respect to Turtle Talk, it sounds like it may not be as bad as I had initially feared (although time will tell). Joe said they are going to try to keep it somewhat time/place appropriate (an old-fashioned hydrophone will be used and Crush will not be a surfer dude (stereo-type doesn't exist in Japan), but a fun-loving dad).
    This is so disturbing. How can a theme park be "too specifically themed?!" Isn't that oxymoronic?! Doesn't that mean the designers did an excellent job?! How is "a more lax view" a better approach to design?! Aaaagh!!!! .........

    Quote Originally Posted by Another Voice View Post
    Utter, complete, unadulterated, pure and absolute balderdash.

    The key in all of this is “We have to infuse more characters into the park” which really means “cram in The Franchises!!!!!”. The park itself – as in the carefully created ‘alternate worlds’ built inside the gate – is nothing but a backdrop to a collection of stories, properties and merchandise being sold by The Walt Disney Company.

    How is not Duffy a character? In Tokyo at least, he sure seems to more popular than Pocahontas, Hercules, and Crush all put together. Why not take the ‘Midway Mania’ ride system and create an attraction for him? How about Harrison Hightower? Or how about using the ‘Mania’ trams for a “wacky tour” of the Zambini Brothers winery over in Mediterranean Harbor (flinging pizzas!)? Or how about a completely new and original (four letter words, I know)?

    But no one in Disney’s TV cartoon Burbank ghetto gets a dime from Duffy’s DVD sales.

    The problem isn’t that the ports of DisneySea are too limited; it’s that WDI is a marketing organization now. What they create amounts to window displays for the latest DVD release.

    Decorators are not the same as designers; marketers are not the same as storytellers.
    I just can't even believe that the same company that benefits from knowing that its franchised park is a universally favored and respected one exactly because of its careful and consistent theming, would then attack it (like slapping those original Imagineers in the face, I think) by eroding that carefully-constructed sensibility to make room for chintzy character pandering. Do they really think that will work? If they destroy what's great about DisneySea, people will notice. We fans of character design in Japan do indeed love our iconic characters, but put them in the wrong place or make them hokey and we turn away just like everyone else.

    That said, AnotherVoice, I your idea for expanding the mythology of DisneySea itself. Creating attractions based on Duffy, Zambinis, Magellan, Nemo (Captain^^) - that works! There could even be an attraction based on Hightower's globe-trotting adventures properly themed in Lost River Delta - how's that for synergy?^^ If they want characters, they should develop from within; more than even TDL, TDS is a world unto itself. It would be such a shame to lose that. Fans of TDS are fans of TDS itself. The parks are much more powerful than the films or even the characters in Japan. I've met MANY people, even a few kids, who go to the parks regularly but don't like or don't even watch the movies. This approach will not work in Tokyo.

    *I know I said "itself" three times, but I just don't feel like editing.^^

  9. #39

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    Thumbs up Re: How About....A Trip Report!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Another Voice View Post
    The queue for ‘Pooh’s Honey Hunt’ is – flat out – the best queue Disney has ever created. You go from a formal English garden into the woodshed which becomes a child’s play room. The map shows you garden through Christopher Robin’s imagination; from there we enter that world through a child’s story book. It’s what Disney does – from ‘real life’ into pure imagination.
    I'll be random, too.^^ Your post makes me realize that I ought to spend more time at TDL because I've totally forgotten all the queues, and you're right - Pooh's is amazing!

  10. #40

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    Re: How About....A Trip Report!!!

    I'm loving this trip report! Very fun!

  11. #41

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    Re: How About....A Trip Report!!!

    The parks are much more powerful than the films or even the characters in Japan. I've met MANY people, even a few kids, who go to the parks regularly but don't like or don't even watch the movies. This approach will not work in Tokyo.
    I agree! Within my mothers group we all have been enjoying Fairies Primavera but none of us had seen the movie! Finally at the end someone rented it and a copy was passed around and many of us didn't like the movie because Tinkerbell was so selfish in it. TDS did such a nice job with the characters though that we enjoyed the event and the characters through the event.

    My son also loves many characters like Buzz Lightyear even though he has never seen the movie. The way the park presents the character through the parades and attractions is enough to make it appealing to him.

    Definitely we are just a tiny sample out all the people who come to TDR but quality and a great experience will sell merchandise whether or not the guests has seen the films, imo.

  12. #42

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    Re: How About....A Trip Report!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by DuffyDad View Post
    This is so disturbing.
    YOU said it. Not me.

  13. #43

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    Question Re: How About....A Trip Report!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by ichigopara View Post
    I agree! Within my mothers group we all have been enjoying Fairies Primavera but none of us had seen the movie! Finally at the end someone rented it and a copy was passed around and many of us didn't like the movie because Tinkerbell was so selfish in it. TDS did such a nice job with the characters though that we enjoyed the event and the characters through the event.
    Yeah, you're really right about this. And shame on me for not noticing it myself! They do seem a lot more like "team players" in the park. To be fair, except for Tink and Vidia, the other Fairies seemed nice even in the movie.

    Quote Originally Posted by ichigopara View Post
    My son also loves many characters like Buzz Lightyear even though he has never seen the movie. The way the park presents the character through the parades and attractions is enough to make it appealing to him.

    Definitely we are just a tiny sample out all the people who come to TDR but quality and a great experience will sell merchandise whether or not the guests has seen the films, imo.
    Why hasn't your son seen Toy Story, though? Is there something in that one I didn't notice, too?^^

  14. #44

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    Re: How About....A Trip Report!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by DuffyDad View Post
    Why hasn't your son seen Toy Story, though? Is there something in that one I didn't notice, too?^^
    Nothing against Toy Story but he is young and it's more fun to play outside right now. He has seen Pinnichio, Wall-E, and Little Mermaid and there will be plenty of time to see other movies later.

  15. #45

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    Thumbs up Re: How About....A Trip Report!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by ichigopara View Post
    Nothing against Toy Story but he is young and it's more fun to play outside right now. He has seen Pinnichio, Wall-E, and Little Mermaid and there will be plenty of time to see other movies later.
    Oh, good. Just checkin'.

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