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  1. #16

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    Re: Back from Tokyo!

    Quote Originally Posted by ICe101 View Post
    Umm 2 things:

    The paths being a major flaw? From the pictures I have seen on your average crowded day, the paths seem to be nearly full in all areas. The park was designed to handle massive crowds from the get go.
    Wide pathways is one thing, but the pathways in TDL are practically plazas they're so big. We thought it was rather odd and offputting.

    As for the roofed-over "Main Street" at the entrance, if you've traveled around Japan at all, you quickly realize that the covered arcade is very common in Japanese cities--the Japanese probably don't think of it as odd at all. And if you're there during the torrential rains they sometimes have, you can really appreciate the roof.

  2. #17

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    Re: Back from Tokyo!

    Hmm Great trip Report! Although I find Tokyo Disneyland better then Disneylad Paris I agree with uon everything and Love Tokyo Sea!

  3. #18

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    Re: Back from Tokyo!

    The only (very small) criticism I could level is that there are mostly painted shutters on the wall and not real ones.

    I’ve been told it’s simply recreating the Trompe-l'oeil technique that you’ll find in a lot of small Italian fishing villages (although on a more “romanticized” scale than what you’ll see in real life). It’s a tradition that goes all the way back to Romans –if you’re a small, poor fishing town in Italy it’s a lot less expensive to paint your buildings with extraneous architectural elements than it is to actually build them. Places like Portofino and the Italian coastline became tourist destinations in the 18th and 19th centuries for English aristocrats doing “The Grand Tour”. Giving the peasant’s houses a quick spruce-up with trompe l’oeil elements to look more grand and opulent was a way these towns competed for the tourist sterling.

    It’s not like the Oriental Land company spent millions on incredible detail every where else and then decided to save a few thousand yen on some window shutters.

    One little detail to look for in the “older” buildings in Mediterranean Harbor. Just as in real life, you see that some of the buildings were constructed out of the rubble from other buildings. You will occasionally find blocks that have Latin inscriptions still carved into the stone from when they were part of a Roman building. The detail that Disney put into this place goes that deep.


    I certainly can see where coming from Disneyland Paris to Tokyo Disneyland can be shocking. Those of us who grew up with Disneyland or the Magic Kingdom grew up accustomed to layout and overall design elements of the land. Disneyland Paris represented the first “ground-up” redesign of the basic park structure – and fifty years of experience shows. The original parks were created with a “movie set” mentality the still shows some of the “2D” thinking of its creators. Disneyland Paris and then Tokyo DisneySea reflect the full “immersive environment” concept that Disney developed over the years through projects such as New Orleans Square at Disneyland and the World Showcase pavilions at Walt Disney World. Like any art, theme park design changes over the years.


    The wide, wide avenues of Tokyo Disneyland are essentially cultural elements. During the design phase the concept of “park” at the heart of the project. Open space in Tokyo is precious and desirable. TDR itself was conceived under a government plan to promote more open space and more outdoor activity for the public. Also the “amusement park” tradition in Japan had been the older ‘open gate with tickets for rides’ model; if Disney was going to charge just for admission they had to offer “something” for the price – that was the ‘parkland’ of the wide plaza and the general open nature of the lands. It’s said that in the early years of the park before the concept of a “Disney theme park” really caught on, the place was filled with people just sitting. It was actually very difficult to get guests on indoor attractions – ‘Dumbo’ used to have the longest line of any attraction.

    This also goes to the behavior of cast members. I think it’s a fair generalization to say that France, the United States and Japan all have wildly different expectations of customer service. What is meant to be “efficient” for Japan comes off as “impersonal and robotic” to Americans, just as a smiling American cast member saying “have a magical day” comes off as fake and insincere to a European.

    In the end, each resort has to accommodate itself to its local audience – a process that happened quickly in Japan and one that was painful for Paris. Each resort has its own identity. But because they’re all “Disney”, it feels like they should be more similar than they actually are, and that just makes the differences that much more noticeable.


    But the one thing that’s true across all cultures is the covered ‘World Bazaar’ is a mistake.

  4. #19

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    Re: Back from Tokyo!

    Quote Originally Posted by Olivier View Post
    - DisneySea Transit Steamer Line : domn't miss this peacefull voyage on Disneysea rivers. Viewing the park from this angle was great.
    I agree! This under-rated ride is one of the highlights of the park (at least for me). The views are amazing!

  5. #20

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    Re: Back from Tokyo!

    Great trip report, and pictures ... I haven't made it to Tokyo yet, but hopefully one day soon.





  6. #21

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    Re: Back from Tokyo!

    Olivier,
    Your negative comments about TDL and positive review or TDS were expected. Fact is.. I have always said that the french never realized how good a Disney park they got with DLP, since many have never been to the other parks in the World. Now, after having been to TDL, you can see why DLP is such a great DL park. However.. you fail to mention the obvious positive attributes of TDL .... like the quality of entertainment on stage and parades, the excellent cleanliness, operation or the park and staffing numbers, and even the superb show of the attractions where props are hardly ever broken... which when compared to DLP dismal cleanliness, poor maintenance of show, and subpar live entertainment.. makes TDL in particular a much better quality park. I feel sad and disappointed with you however, that you took the easy road to criticize TDL for the obvious flaws like the canopy in World Bazaar or the extra wide sidewalks, which trust me.. are needed for the kind of crowds this park gets. You really do not realize how very lucky you were to really not have found huge crowds awaiting outside on the day you went.. or maybe it was because you chose to visit on a rainy day.. but nevertheless.. as a long term visitor to TDL, you most definitely got lucky with lack of crowds.. just like other recent visitors from Micechat have been.
    Also, now you can see why I adviced you not to bother buying vouchers for entry ahead of time.. as that was a small headache you didn't need to deal with. Maybe next time you (if you ever do visit again which based on your trip report I would guess is doubtful) you won't freak out with worry about making it inside the park, even on crowded days, like we.. long time visitors would know not to worry about that much.
    In the meantime.. besides visiting Disney crowning achievement, TDS, I hope the rest of your visit there was worth something positive to remember about. Or maybe it's time to visit the MK at WDW and see how bad a Disneyland park can really be in all levels..
    Last edited by TDLFAN; 08-20-2009 at 07:59 AM.

  7. #22

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    Re: Back from Tokyo!

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliforniaDreaming View Post
    Holy cow, that is a truly ghastly color scheme.


    LMAO! I love how you used wrote "ghastly" I've never heard anybody use that word in normal conversation before. I'm gonna start saying it, today.

  8. #23

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    Re: Back from Tokyo!

    Quote Originally Posted by TDLFAN View Post
    Olivier,
    Your negative comments about TDL and positive review or TDS were expected. Fact is.. I have always said that the french never realized how good a Disney park they got with DLP, since many have never been to the other parks in the World. Now, after having been to TDL, you can see why DLP is such a great DL park. However.. you fail to mention the obvious positive attributes of TDL .... like the quality of entertainment on stage and parades, the excellent cleanliness, operation or the park and staffing numbers, and even the superb show of the attractions where props are hardly ever broken... which when compared to DLP dismal cleanliness, poor maintenance of show, and subpar live entertainment.. makes TDL in particular a much better quality park. I feel sad and disappointed with you however, that you took the easy road to criticize TDL for the obvious flaws like the canopy in World Bazaar or the extra wide sidewalks, which trust me.. are needed for the kind of crowds this park gets. You really do not realize how very lucky you were to really not have found huge crowds awaiting outside on the day you went.. or maybe it was because you chose to visit on a rainy day.. but nevertheless.. as a long term visitor to TDL, you most definitely got lucky with lack of crowds.. just like other recent visitors from Micechat have been.
    Also, now you can see why I adviced you not to bother buying vouchers for entry ahead of time.. as that was a small headache you didn't need to deal with. Maybe next time you (if you ever do visit again which based on your trip report I would guess is doubtful) you won't freak out with worry about making it inside the park, even on crowded days, like we.. long time visitors would know not to worry about that much.
    In the meantime.. besides visiting Disney crowning achievement, TDS, I hope the rest of your visit there was worth something positive to remember about. Or maybe it's time to visit the MK at WDW and see how bad a Disneyland park can really be in all levels..
    I realize I tend to be quite fussy about things like shapes, design, colors..., maybe more than anything else. The fact is that the day I visited Tokyo Disneyland, before going to any attraction, or watching any show or parade, I made a quick stroll around the park, because I was so eager to see what it's like.
    My disappointment grew bigger and bigger. I guess the rest of the day was distorted.

    When I left the park, I thought I probably won't visit TDL again in a near future, but a little more than one week after visitig the park, I may slowly change my mind. I still think that this par has major flaws that will be very hard to fix, but I probably failed to explain how I absolutely loved some attractions (Pooh, Splash Mountain...) and the wonderful parades I had the chance to see there.
    My top priority will be Tokyo Disneysea, obviously (I thought that my TDS review was more than just "positive" ). But Tokyo Disneyland might be on my "must-go" list again.

  9. #24

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    Re: Back from Tokyo!

    Love your strong opinions Olivier, even the ones I don't agree with. I attended EuroDisney on opening day and there is no question that it has always been the most beautifully designed Disneyland in the world. I was fortunate enough to see DisneySea within it's first month, and immediately realized that the ideal situation would be combining DisneyLand Paris with Tokyo's companion park; despite my true love being Walt's Disneyland, with it's unrivaled charms and irreplaceable history. Every park has it's pluses and minuses. Even WDW's vastness has that going for it. (Although HKDL, DCA and especially DSP don't actually rate at all...and don't look like they ever really will with dull fixes for design disasters) As I return time and again to the main 'foreign' parks (Paris next month!), I still enjoy them all.....and see thousands of ways of perfecting them each.....that's part of the fun, isn't it? Thanx for your delightful report and excellent photos.

    Oh, and the trompe l'oeil parts of the Mira Costa Hotel are quite intentional, a lavish display of this art form, and architecturally true to their use here, not cheeping out at all. Staying here is literally dreamy. (I only wish the real windows would open wider, but THAT could get ugly fast).
    Cheers.



    "Disneyland is a work of love. We didn't go into Disneyland just with the idea of making money."
    - - Walt Disney

  10. #25

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    Re: Back from Tokyo!

    This is why they have big pathways... SO MANY PEOPLE.
    Follow me on --> Twitter (@soda)

  11. #26

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    Re: Back from Tokyo!

    I thought Tokyo Disneyland was a beautiful park. But Disney sea is in a whole other league

  12. #27

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    Re: Back from Tokyo!

    Hi Waltopia! Nice to see personal friends participating on these boards from time to time. Hope you are doing well.
    Quote Originally Posted by waltopia View Post
    despite my true love being Walt's Disneyland, with it's unrivaled charms and irreplaceable history.
    Agreed about DL in CA with you.. even if they too have forgotten some of Walt's traditions along the way...but like you said..<< Every park has it's pluses and minuses.>>
    Even WDW's vastness has that going for it.
    Yes, I agree again.. "Vastness is all that WDW has going for it and sadly.. all that vastness is wasted with crappy subpar resort hotels and overpriced DVC properties... not to mention, some "world class" parks that needsome major pixie dusting and upgrades.
    (Although HKDL, DCA and especially DSP don't actually rate at all...and don't look like they ever really will with dull fixes for design disasters)
    I have to disagree with you on this one.. I for one love HKDL's settings and theming which honestly, I rate higher than the MK's. It may be a small park but it delivers Disney quality in what it does, and what does better than the MK park for example.. so at the present time.. the number of attractions inside the park is not a reason for me to give any Disney park a high rating... reason why I feel HKDL is a better park. In regards to Paris' WDSP and CA's DCA... time will tell if they are worthy.. but I for one am quite excited about the DCA improvements.
    As I return time and again to the main 'foreign' parks (Paris next month!), I still enjoy them all.....and see thousands of ways of perfecting them each.....that's part of the fun, isn't it?
    Yes, it is.. and if we didn't care as much about those park (the same way the average tourist base that populate WDW does not) then we do not have the right to call ourselfves "fanatics". I just with the current management teams in Paris, CA, HK and especially Orlando did care as much as some of us do.. or at least as much as OLC does, in delivering exceptional experiences that exceed expectations like Walt had intended for DL park.

  13. #28

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    Re: Back from Tokyo!

    You definitely had some interesting observations about TDL and I agree with most of them. But the park definitely has its strengths that others were noting, like the staff and their efficiency, the entertainment, the cleanliness, etc. But I had some of the same problems you did, like not being able to tell where one land ended and the other began. lol

    But the lack of crowds should not have been a deterring factor. That was a Godsend, although I hope it wasn't because anyone was hurt in the earthquakes. But I've never seen a mad dash to the attractions like at this park, and this was before Monsters Inc. was open so I can't imagine now.

    But there's nothing wrong with pointing out strengths and weaknesses. Although TDL is ran nearly perfectly, I agree with there's flaws in the design and I was surprised, with the addition of spectacular attractions like Pooh's Hunny Hunt and such, that they haven't been addressed yet.

  14. #29

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    Re: Back from Tokyo!

    Quote Originally Posted by easy View Post
    But the lack of crowds should not have been a deterring factor. That was a Godsend, although I hope it wasn't because anyone was hurt in the earthquakes. But I've never seen a mad dash to the attractions like at this park, and this was before Monsters Inc. was open so I can't imagine now.
    In fact the parks were quite crowded, it is only I was expecting unbelievably HUGE crowds (considering it is TDR!), something like not even being able to walk with ease in the pathways, waiting for ages in restaurants...
    In fact it was quite bearable (never waited more than 2 minutes at any restaurant for example). I have no explanation (earthquakes? economic breakdown?), or summer vacation is not such a bad time of the year to visit after all!

  15. #30

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    Re: Back from Tokyo!

    I don't mind the wide walkways and the glass roof over World Bazaar is a great thing considering the weather in Tokyo. I'd pick Tokyo Disneyland over Disneyland Paris any day of the week, even though the latter is indeed a beautiful park. But that doesn't really matter, does it, when you treat a beauty queen like a pig and fill it with rude castmembers, uncollected garbage, and attractions that desperately need maintainence.

    For my Magic Kingdoms, there are only two that really matter: Tokyo Disneyland and the original Disneyland in Anaheim. I put Paris third, WDW fourth, and Hong Kong fifth (simply because there's so little to do).

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