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  1. #1

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    GOODBYE CARSLAND Hello FANTASYLAND FOREST?

    DISNEYANDMORE AND AL LUTZ UPDATE HAS A LOT TO TELL YOU!

    May be you remember the Mice Age article posted by Al Lutz last November. In his update, called "Cars Land in Tokyo", Al was revealing that TDL was planning to bring Cars Land at TDL Magic Kingdom but at a cost: "Much of Tokyo’s “Westernland” would need to be repurposed and the Rivers of America section would be removed entirely..." although "...Big Thunder Mountain, the Country Bear Jamboree and the original frontier town buildings would remain at the front of the land, with the Western River Railroad continuing to circle the property. But towards the back of Westernland the entire Rivers of America would be leveled and turned into Cars Land."

    Disney fans reactions were not specially enthusiastic at the idea to see TDL Rivers of America disappearing from Westernland, specially in a park which don't have that much spaces with water, even as Al said if "the Rivers of America takes up a huge amount of space but delivers very little in the way of attraction capacity for that crowded park". And God knows how Tokyo Disneyland can be crowded all year long. So, i suppose that WDI Imagineers had a point on this one when they did in Glendale their presentation to Oriental Land top executives, including OLC President and CEO. As Al noted in his update "additional capacity is a huge selling point for the Japanese executives" and for sure we can't blame them to try to add capacity to Tokyo Disneyland.

    But i have a good news for TDL fans who were furious at the idea to can't sail anymore on Westernland Rivers of America as from what i've been told the project to build Cars Land at TDL has been cancelled. I don't know the precise reasons, may be TDL execs finally understood that the idea to remove a big part of Westernland was not that good after all, or may be it is because of the cost, or may be it is not possible to build Cars Land for technical reasons. As you may know Tokyo Disneyland was built on landfill, and the weight of Carsland rockwork may have been a cost issue in firming up the ground beneath it.

    So, except if TDL execs change their mind, Cars Land won't come to Japan - at least at Tokyo Disneyland. But the story has a good ending as in exchange Tokyo Disneyland envision a major Fantasyland expansion, apparently pretty big in size, similar or almost to WDW New Fantasyland. No news yet on which attractions will be part of it but, as OLC pretty much only copy in TDL what has previously been done in U.S parks and go for cute things the most, the Little Mermaid or Seven Dwarfs coaster rides could come soon at TDL Fantasyland. Though with Mermaid Lagoon next door at TDS it's may be not sure that the Little Mermaid ride will come finally to TDL...




    That said, the big question is: where these Fantasyland additions will be built? Because the problem of the available land remains the same and there is not that much spaces available at TDL. Have a look at the Google Earth screen capture above - click on the picture to enlarge it - as it will help you to understand the problem. The picture shows TDL Fantasyland with Westernland on the right, Toon Town on the bottom left with part of the parking lot, and Autopia and Tomorrowland on the top left. The show buildings in the bottom center are those of It's a Small World, Haunted Mansion and Splash Mountain.

    As you can see there is not a lot of choice. Something is going to be removed to make room for these Fantasyland additions and either it will be Autopia, or it could be Toon Town, or they might take a part of the parking lot behind Toon Town. Although Westernland is close to Fantasyland i can't imagine they will build their new Fantasyland there as it will mean that we'll be back to the previous problem, i.e the disappearing of a big part of Westernland. Removing Autopia would be the logical choice, as Autopia always take a lot of land, but this will mean to reduce Tomorrowland and TDL might be interested to keep this space for a future Star Wars or Marvel lands. Another option would be to take away only a small piece of the Rivers of America near the Haunted Mansion. You could make the river loop smaller and gain some land that way, but it may not be enough. Losing Toontown might also be the easiest fix. Removing Toon Town and Autopia next to it would make available a big piece of land. On the right of Toon Town is a Small World, but i wonder if they would ever get rid of It's a Small World, the ride is almost sacred! So far, i don't have the answer so is suppose that for now all we have to do is to wait for more details about this exciting Fantasyland additions!

    Pictures: copyright Disney, Google Earth
    via Disney and More.

  2. #2

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    Re: GOODBYE CARSLAND Hello FANTASYLAND FOREST?

    As long as they don't do that here...in DCA, I'm ok with that.

  3. #3

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    Re: GOODBYE CARSLAND Hello FANTASYLAND FOREST?

    I could see them expanding Fantasyland, and probably with their own attraction instead of Mermaid... the ¥1bn question is though - with what? If Frozen is a huge hit in Japan there's a candidate, but that's an unknown entity right now.
    Or perhaps it could draw inspiration from the Ratatouille attraction (the ride system) in Paris.. scratch that, they've already got Pooh's Hunny Hunt.


    "We're not trying to entertain the critics ... I'll take my chances with the public." -
    Walt Disney

  4. #4

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    Re: GOODBYE CARSLAND Hello FANTASYLAND FOREST?

    Interesting. I wonder what's being planned? I could see the diamond mine coaster and maybe a beauty and the beast dark ride along with a be our guest restaurant.

    Ideally I'd love to see a wonderland area - I think that has a lot of potential for a theme park land

  5. #5

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    Re: GOODBYE CARSLAND Hello FANTASYLAND FOREST?

    I'd like to go on record as betting you and anyone else that Frozen will not be a big enough hit to warrant an instant attraction in a massive land expansion at Tokyo Disneyland :P

  6. #6

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    Re: GOODBYE CARSLAND Hello FANTASYLAND FOREST?

    Also, any plan should target Grand Circuit Raceway's land before anything else imo :P Not that I've been there but it looks only slightly less lame than WDW's and only because the track wiggles back and forth a couple times..yipee

  7. #7

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    Re: GOODBYE CARSLAND Hello FANTASYLAND FOREST?

    Grand Raceway will go away, and the new Fantasyland addition will expand into the parking lot. I would expect to see surface clearing start for the new multi-level garage within 6 months.
    Born in a shoebox and making the most of it.

  8. #8

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    Re: GOODBYE CARSLAND Hello FANTASYLAND FOREST?

    Quote Originally Posted by robbiem View Post
    Interesting. I wonder what's being planned? I could see the diamond mine coaster and maybe a beauty and the beast dark ride along with a be our guest restaurant.

    Ideally I'd love to see a wonderland area - I think that has a lot of potential for a theme park land
    I'd love to see Beauty & the Beast at TDL - it would make me go there! And it would be VERY popular with guests.

    Your Wonderland idea is even better, though. Especially in Japan, Alice has a HUGE - I mean cannot be overstated - crossover fanbase in many, many Japanese fan cultures. Japanese people LOVE Alice, and this would be totally original. Imagine walking through an outdoor "forest" area as "shrunken" because everything around you is so big, and then entering a queue and becoming a "giant" because everything in the "house" is so small - like Toy Storia Mania, but more immersive, with more consistent scale, and a mix of indoor and outdoor environments. This idea has extreme merit! It would be unique, perfect for the particulars of the Japanese market, and merge well with the existing Queen of Hearts restaurant.

    Quote Originally Posted by almandot View Post
    I'd like to go on record as betting you and anyone else that Frozen will not be a big enough hit to warrant an instant attraction in a massive land expansion at Tokyo Disneyland :P
    Seconded. I really hope the art design changes as radically in development as Tangled did, you know, so that the characters don't look like they came from Tangled.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fukai View Post
    Grand Raceway will go away, and the new Fantasyland addition will expand into the parking lot. I would expect to see surface clearing start for the new multi-level garage within 6 months.
    Not sure about the timeframe, but I agree. The Raceway's days are probably numbered, and I really cannot imagine the removal of ToonTown for any reason.

  9. #9

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    Re: GOODBYE CARSLAND Hello FANTASYLAND FOREST?

    If you ask me there's a lot of filler in the Tomorrowland section across from Grand Circuit Raceway that could be used for something else if they just moved Star Jets (see picture). Toontown is very popular in Japan, especially Roger Rabbit's Car Toon Spin so that will not be going anywhere. TDL's Tomorrowland is a disaster anyway and this way they won't need to expand out towards the parking lot.
    Thoughts?

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  10. #10

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    Re: GOODBYE CARSLAND Hello FANTASYLAND FOREST?

    I think to expand and have a Star Wars subland and Fantasyland expansion, they need the circled area and part of the parking. Go big!

  11. #11

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    Re: GOODBYE CARSLAND Hello FANTASYLAND FOREST?

    I also think their hub needs to be part of Fantasyland with some inspiration from Shanghai.

    Currently it's a mess, the big circle made no sense with World Bazaar and the giant turrets interrupt it anyway.

  12. #12

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    Re: GOODBYE CARSLAND Hello FANTASYLAND FOREST?

    This sound like confirmation of a third park.

  13. #13

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    Re: GOODBYE CARSLAND Hello FANTASYLAND FOREST?

    Something I just threw together to see what they might be able to do with the space from the Speedway and the rest of that area-





    I left Microadventure/EO for two reasons- the first being that Tomorrowland's entry would look horrid without that structure flanking the right side when you enter from the hub. The second reason is that all of the parks have these exact theaters and I'm sure Disney is cooking up a replacement for EO in the near future (PLEASE BE A WALL-E 4D SHOW!!! ). I couldn't fit Be our Guest but the rest of MK's new Fantasyland would fit just fine in a configuration similar to mine. The scale is supposedly correct according to a few topo maps and Googles "eye altitude". For those of you who think Mermaid is going to/belongs at TDS- Disney has always had rides from the same movie scattered around resorts at different parks/locations. Honey I Shrunk the Kids set at Disney Studios vs Honey I Shrunk the Audience at EPCOT; The Seas with Nemo vs Finding Nemo the Musical. Toy Story Mania vs Buzz Lightyear and so on. I don't think they have the space to place Mermaid at TDS and then there's the obvious problem of having the ride mimic the entire land that's already there. When all is said and done I think it's a better logistical fit at Disneyland instead of Disneysea.

  14. #14

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    Re: GOODBYE CARSLAND Hello FANTASYLAND FOREST?

    A Fantasyland Forest in TDL would be nice but it would be even nicer if they did something more unique with it and not clone everything from Magic Kingdom.

  15. #15

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    Re: GOODBYE CARSLAND Hello FANTASYLAND FOREST?

    ^ While everyone wants unique experiences and there seems to be quite a distaste for "clones", having something on the other side of the planet be cloned isn't a big deal. Honestly if TDL can do what Magic Kingdom did with Mermaid (take an already developed ride and plus the heck out of it) then I'd be overjoyed for them to get a New Fantasyland. The "unique" factor is being way overplayed when it comes to foreign properties. I would venture a guess that less than 1% of all people that visit WDW, Disneyland or Tokyo Disneyland live across the pacific. That's probably much too high of a number of you're just talking specifically about people who live in the US/visit TDL or visa verse.

    When all is said and done, it really comes down to the money. Disney spends an enormous amount of money on R&D for new ride systems/concepts and if those can be exported to other parks then it saves Disney and their client (TDL/Paris/China) quite a bit of money- which can be better spent on the queues, theming and minor tweaks to make the ride better. They've already done this with rides like Indiana Jones, Splash Mtn and Tower of Terror. Those are all superior/headliner attractions at TDR despite them starting with an already great ride system/concept here in the states. Honestly those three attractions in particular have some major capacity/reliability problems that were fixed with Tokyo's versions. Think of it like Buzz at WDW vs all of the other ones, the second version is a much better attraction.

    Their Fantasyland right now is abysmal, to the point where it drags the rest of the park down. The rides are all in good condition and obviously TDL's great operations means you're not going to have a "bad" time there, but it really is still stuck in the 70's and their Dumbo is an embarrassment. I've always wondered how they've gotten away with having such an outdated/pitiful Fantasyland (and Tomorrowland to a lesser extent) without drawing the ire of people who sing Tokyo's praises. I love TDR and am planning a trip back there right now, but those two lands really do need a big overhaul. Between Marvel, Star Wars and New Fantasyland I'm sure Disney has Tokyo's execs salivating at the possibilities in the future!

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