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  1. #16

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    Re: Tokyo Disney Sea 5th Celebrations:The Hangover!

    Quote Originally Posted by TDLFAN View Post
    Then if you did go, you have not got as clue what a Disney park is supposed to be about: THEMING. Of which TDS delivers TONS with rides and shows that are way above the quality we are getting in the USA now a days...and that includes Raging Spirits, which is certainly a notch above your precious Primeval Spit at DAK.

    Maybe you need to go back and really pay attention.
    I agree with you TDLFAN. Even Raging Spirits can just barely be considered an E-ticket if Indiana Jones at Disneyland Paris can. It has great theming and is quite enjoyable. I don't see why people hate it so much; I found it just as entertaining as Space Mountain (which might I add has no real special effects either). At least Raging Spirits lets you dive up and down around temple ruins as opposed to the dark. Theming elevates Raging Spirits above D-ticket status in my opinion, as opposed to the Mulholland Madness coaster at California Adventure.
    ~ Tokyo DisneySea’s Arabian Coast at nighttime ~


  2. #17

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    Re: Tokyo Disney Sea 5th Celebrations:The Hangover!

    Quote Originally Posted by TDLFAN View Post
    Then if you did go, you have not got as clue what a Disney park is supposed to be about: THEMING. Of which TDS delivers TONS with rides and shows that are way above the quality we are getting in the USA now a days...and that includes Raging Spirits, which is certainly a notch above your precious Primeval Spit at DAK.
    Just because something has been themed at every nook and corner doesn't do it for me. Two reasons for that. One is that I don't think a park needs to be themed out the yoo-hoo to be fun since Disneyland has been fun since 1957 (as far as I know), and Tomorrowland didn't even have permanent trees.

    The next thing is that Imagineering has has a trend of increasing their wow-level over the years excluding recent budget-driven hiccups like DCA and WDSP. Raging Spirits does not look like a WDI product. In fact it looks like one of those "what happened?" rides that you see in the parks I just mentioned. Actually, it looks like Knotts.

    For all your talk about theme, TDLFAN, Everest is way way more themed than all the exposed steel and bolts in Raging Spirits. Even the opening day Matterhorn, exposed interiors and all, is more themed. You sound like Mikey at DAK saying "well of course, it's been elaborately themed to look like a cheap parking lot and they did such an excellent job that it fooled you."

  3. #18

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    Re: Tokyo Disney Sea 5th Celebrations:The Hangover!

    Quote Originally Posted by MickeyMania View Post
    But see, I think that's the difference between you and the majority (Japanese natives) who are there. For them this pretty much is their Disneyland within a few hours' drive, and it's well-rounded with a lot of D&E rides for all ages. Pooh is easily an E-ride. At TDS, I don't think all five year olds are open to ToT or Raging Spirits or even Indy (which at DLUS is considered one notch below the mountains as a thrill ride) and the Mermaid area are mostly simple attractions themed up to B/C status. Aquatopia is cute, though, and the fort is an awesome playground.
    Interesting, as Indiana Jones always seems to have the longests lines when I'm at Disneyland. It always maintains a 30 minute wait during the off season, while Splash Mountain and Space Mountain are walk-ons. Based on my experience, I would say it's the most popular attraction at the park. I've visited with numerous people, all of which say Indiana Jones is the best attraction at Disneyland.

    And regarding your first paragraph, if Tokyo DisneySea was built in place of California Adventure, I would visit it more than Disneyland too. It's just a coincidence that one of my favorite parks just happens to be in Tokyo.

    Sadly, people go to theme parks just for the attractions. Because of this, they miss out on the beauty and romance of Tokyo DisneySea. Nobody seems to care about theming anymore, and they go to Tokyo Disneyland just because it's what they think Disney is supposed to be like.

    I talked to a CM when I was staying at the MiraCosta and she expressed the same opinions as me. She wished that more people could appreciate the beauty of the park instead of rushing to the attractions. Lucky for her, she gets to see the park every day!

    At Tokyo DisneySea, you seem to be forgetting 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea. It's quite a gem of a ride and definitely an E-ticket too in my opinion. I would rate it just barely behind Journey to the Center of the Earth and Indiana Jones.
    ~ Tokyo DisneySea’s Arabian Coast at nighttime ~


  4. #19

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    Re: Tokyo Disney Sea 5th Celebrations:The Hangover!

    Quote Originally Posted by MickeyMania View Post

    The next thing is that Imagineering has has a trend of increasing their wow-level over the years excluding recent budget-driven hiccups like DCA and WDSP. Raging Spirits does not look like a WDI product. In fact it looks like one of those "what happened?" rides that you see in the parks I just mentioned. Actually, it looks like Knotts.

    For all your talk about theme, TDLFAN, Everest is way way more themed than all the exposed steel and bolts in Raging Spirits. Even the opening day Matterhorn, exposed interiors and all, is more themed. You sound like Mikey at DAK saying "well of course, it's been elaborately themed to look like a cheap parking lot and they did such an excellent job that it fooled you."
    I disagree. Raging Spirits is far more themed than anything at Knott's or the Disney parks you mentioned. You can't ignore the beautiful ruins of an ancient altar, the waterfalls flowing down the stairs, or the bursts of fire that shoot out from the ruins. In my opinion, it looks better than some of the other Disney coasters.
    ~ Tokyo DisneySea’s Arabian Coast at nighttime ~


  5. #20

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    Re: Tokyo Disney Sea 5th Celebrations:The Hangover!

    Quote Originally Posted by MickeyMania View Post
    Just because something has been themed at every nook and corner doesn't do it for me. Two reasons for that. One is that I don't think a park needs to be themed out the yoo-hoo to be fun since Disneyland has been fun since 1957 (as far as I know), and Tomorrowland didn't even have permanent trees.
    I disagree. Going to Tokyo DisneySea for the first time was definitely more fun that going to Disneyland for the first time. Why? Because when queues are long and you can't stand to wait 2 hours for an attraction, you can slow down and appreciate the little details that went into each building. It's something I enjoy doing when I have to wait several hours for the next attraction. Unfortunately, you cannot seem to do this at the other Disney parks (or not as much) so all you're left doing is waiting. So in conclusion, Tokyo DisneySea's elaborate theming does excel it to a new degree of fun for me; the atmosphere there cannot be beat.
    ~ Tokyo DisneySea’s Arabian Coast at nighttime ~


  6. #21

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    Re: Tokyo Disney Sea 5th Celebrations:The Hangover!

    Quote Originally Posted by TDR_Fan View Post
    Interesting, as Indiana Jones always seems to have the longests lines when I'm at Disneyland. It always maintains a 30 minute wait during the off season, while Splash Mountain and Space Mountain are walk-ons. Based on my experience, I would say it's the most popular attraction at the park. I've visited with numerous people, all of which say Indiana Jones is the best attraction at Disneyland.
    I'm not judging Indy's popularity, I'm judging it's all-ages appeal. Between the simulated rough ride and insects and serpents depicted within, it's not on every boy and girl's wish list.

    Sadly, people go to theme parks just for the attractions. Because of this, they miss out on the beauty and romance of Tokyo DisneySea. Nobody seems to care about theming anymore, and they go to Tokyo Disneyland just because it's what they think Disney is supposed to be like.
    TDL is a good representative incarnation of what Walt Disney wanted to build. If it had a New Orleans Square (although I suppose World Bazaar has an element of it) then it could easily be the park of Walt's dreams.

    It's not the most modern park (TL, anyone?) but yes, the whole thing pretty much embodies what Disneyland was supposed to look like if Walt had more money and could have moved the LA freeway away.

    At Tokyo DisneySea, you seem to be forgetting 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea. It's quite a gem of a ride and definitely an E-ticket too in my opinion. I would rate it just barely behind Journey to the Center of the Earth and Indiana Jones.
    I forgot, that if you were a native Japanese family you would enjoy that ride, too, and it is far more exciting than the Mermaid stuff. Personally I thought it was fun once, but I obviously was missing out on the full flavor of the ride since I didn't understand what was being said.

  7. #22

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    Re: Tokyo Disney Sea 5th Celebrations:The Hangover!

    Quote Originally Posted by MickeyMania View Post
    I'm not judging Indy's popularity, I'm judging it's all-ages appeal. Between the simulated rough ride and insects and serpents depicted within, it's not on every boy and girl's wish list.


    TDL is a good representative incarnation of what Walt Disney wanted to build. If it had a New Orleans Square (although I suppose World Bazaar has an element of it) then it could easily be the park of Walt's dreams.

    It's not the most modern park (TL, anyone?) but yes, the whole thing pretty much embodies what Disneyland was supposed to look like if Walt had more money and could have moved the LA freeway away.


    I forgot, that if you were a native Japanese family you would enjoy that ride, too, and it is far more exciting than the Mermaid stuff. Personally I thought it was fun once, but I obviously was missing out on the full flavor of the ride since I didn't understand what was being said.
    True. I've seen children coming off Indiana Jones crying. But can't you say the same for Space Mountain or Splash Mountain. Not every kid like the mammoth 52 foot drop, or twists and turns in the dark. I know that I was once scared of the climax of Splash Mountain. It wasn't until a few years ago that I ventured enough courage to ride it and Space Mountain as well. You see, I get motion sick very easily so I fear coasters.

    I'm sure Walt Disney would've been very impressed by Tokyo DisneySea as well, as theming and immersion were one of the biggest aspects he emphasized would make Disneyland stand out from all the other parks. And Toyko Disneyland DOES have a New Orleans Square; it's just blended into Adventureland.

    ~ Tokyo DisneySea’s Arabian Coast at nighttime ~


  8. #23

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    Re: Tokyo Disney Sea 5th Celebrations:The Hangover!

    See, I thought that was just blending World Bazaar into Adventureland. That legitimately shocked me and it was pleasant because the transition from Main Street to Adventureland and back has always been a rather jarring one.

  9. #24

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    Re: Tokyo Disney Sea 5th Celebrations:The Hangover!

    In my opinion, I think Tokyo DisneySea has the best entryway out of any theme park. I like Mediterranean Harbor better than both Main Street, U.S.A or World Bazaar. It just seems so much grander and elegant.

    ~ Tokyo DisneySea’s Arabian Coast at nighttime ~


  10. #25

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    Re: Tokyo Disney Sea 5th Celebrations:The Hangover!

    M.Harbor is definitely the second most attractive land there (I like American Waterfront just a little bit more.) I keep telling my friends who critique architecture and design in the gaming industry to go to TDS and look at and walk into the Miracosta. I have a friend headed to Macau to gawk at casinos so I told him to make a sidetrip in Japan for Disney if he could. I keep picturing old Sheldy seeing it and having a stroke.

  11. #26

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    Re: Tokyo Disney Sea 5th Celebrations:The Hangover!

    Quote Originally Posted by MickeyMania View Post
    Just because something has been themed at every nook and corner doesn't do it for me.
    Do us a favor and stick to 6-flags.

    One is that I don't think a park needs to be themed out the yoo-hoo to be fun
    reason why DCA is so succesful.

    since Disneyland has been fun since 1957 (as far as I know), and Tomorrowland didn't even have permanent trees.
    Because walt started with a very limited budget, but his real plans included much much more. Besides the times have shifted and Disney needs to try much harder to set the pace inthe industry and they sre not doing it with their newer parks in the USA, HK and Paris. TDS is the only park that has pushed the evelope of themed experiences. You can not compare the cardboard facades of DCA to the glorious art work that is TDS' many areas.

    Raging Spirits does not look like a WDI product. Actually, it looks like Knotts.
    Raging isn't Disney. But take a look at the DLP version and tell me this is not an improvement over the original... and same can be said for the Mermaid Lagoon area as opposed to the same crap sitting at DCA's Paradise Pier. The huge amount of theming is what made it more Disney and less Knott's. DCA is knotts, while TDS is not.

    For all your talk about theme, TDLFAN, Everest is way way more themed than all the exposed steel and bolts in Raging Spirits.
    To this day, you can see the inside metal mesh of Everest during the ride in the backward motion tunnel, which to me is a sacrilegious faux pas concidering how expensive it was to create this particular attraction... but you would not know since you didn't ride it. And yes, I will concede that Everest is a great looking ride, made to looke even better when the rest of the park around it is made of bushes and not much else. You can't not compare the extraordinary details of Mt Prometheus at TDS, with it's bubbling steam crack, molten lava and million more details to the elegant but much reduced scale of Everest at DAK. If you can't see the difference, then you are purposely being blind to the fact. And yes... as a matter of personal opinion, I will take the JTTCOTE ride and scenery(show elements) anytime over Everest's fun coaster romp with not much else to see as you go around and about that mountain.

  12. #27

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    Re: Tokyo Disney Sea 5th Celebrations:The Hangover!

    Quote Originally Posted by MickeyMania View Post
    M.Harbor is definitely the second most attractive land there (I like American Waterfront just a little bit more.) I keep telling my friends who critique architecture and design in the gaming industry to go to TDS and look at and walk into the Miracosta. I have a friend headed to Macau to gawk at casinos so I told him to make a sidetrip in Japan for Disney if he could. I keep picturing old Sheldy seeing it and having a stroke.
    The idea of having the Hotel MiraCosta double as a hotel and the background for Mediterranean Harbor was ingenious. Out of the hotels I've stayed in, the Hotel MiraCosta is also my favorite. I never thought a Disney hotel could be that fancy. I've visited all the major Las Vegas resorts such as the Venetian and Bellagio, but still like the Hotel MiraCosta more. The Venetian feels too artificial and while it is simply breathtaking (especially the lobby), the highrise look of it ruins the Italian motif they were going for.

    The Hotel MiraCosta captures the look of an Italian village perfectly, having sections symbolizing Tuscany, Venice, and Portofino. Architecturally, the Hotel MiraCosta looks so much better than the Venetian. The trompe l'oeil on the facade is simply amazing, especially when you hear it cost more to create than constructing an actual 3D sculpture. Overall, I prefer the Hotel MiraCosta simpy because it's more reminiscent of what I found in Italy.
    ~ Tokyo DisneySea’s Arabian Coast at nighttime ~


  13. #28

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    Re: Tokyo Disney Sea 5th Celebrations:The Hangover!

    Quote Originally Posted by TDR_Fan View Post
    I disagree. Raging Spirits is far more themed than anything at Knott's or the Disney parks you mentioned. You can't ignore the beautiful ruins of an ancient altar, the waterfalls flowing down the stairs, or the bursts of fire that shoot out from the ruins. In my opinion, it looks better than some of the other Disney coasters.
    MickeyMania would not know that TDR_Fan... He didn't ride it to see the details up close. I would take the ruin facade with cascading water and fire elements over most other areas of similar rides at Disney or any other park.

  14. #29

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    Re: Tokyo Disney Sea 5th Celebrations:The Hangover!

    Quote Originally Posted by TDLFAN View Post
    You can't not compare the extraordinary details of Mt Prometheus at TDS, with it's bubbling steam crack, molten lava and million more details to the elegant but much reduced scale of Everest at DAK. If you can't see the difference, then you are purposely being blind to the fact. And yes... as a matter of personal opinion, I will take the JTTCOTE ride and scenery(show elements) anytime over Everest's fun coaster romp with not much else to see as you go around and about that mountain.
    I agree with your assessment on Mount Prometheus, the best "mountain" structure ever created by Imagineers. Did you know it was created all out real rock?

    Quote Originally Posted by TDLFAN View Post
    MickeyMania would not know that TDR_Fan... He didn't ride it to see the details up close. I would take the ruin facade with cascading water and fire elements over most other areas of similar rides at Disney or any other park.
    So would I. It's structure, while not as impressive as Big Thunder Mountain or Splash Mountain, is pretty in its own right. I love how both Tokyo Disneyland and Tokyo DisneySea expand and improve exisiting facades in the other Disney parks. I love the Temple of the Crystal Skull and Splash Mountain facades the most!





    ~ Tokyo DisneySea’s Arabian Coast at nighttime ~


  15. #30

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    Re: Tokyo Disney Sea 5th Celebrations:The Hangover!

    Quote Originally Posted by TDLFAN View Post
    Do us a favor and stick to 6-flags.
    Look, I didn't say that theming ISN'T fun, I just said it only adds to an extent. Clearly, the reason why I don't like Spirits is because it is SO UN-THEMED. It is seriously like they just laid some fancy looking boulders around a Knott's coaster and opened up.

    Everest is certainly themed ENOUGH for me. Things like seeing a bit of mesh when falling through the insides, that's not really important to me. This is because I saw MUCH MUCH MORE inside Walt Disney's Matterhorn until it was closed up years after the guy died. He had the money to do something about that, he didn't. I guess he thought it was good enough?

    Mt Prometheus is a whole other animal. It's up there with Spaceship Earth's show building and Space Mountain's show building in terms of being architecturally pleasing and impressive. It helps that unlike Space Mt or SSE, the ride inside is the most delightful ride I've seen since DL's Splash Mountain on opening year back when everything was working (and I've never been on WDW's Splash, mind you, though I've heard it's superior on the odd chance that everything actually works. I did go on Tokyo's Splash and it was a nice improvement on the original although, again, I didn't get full enjoyment since I don't speak the language on the audio tracks.)

    In fact, Journey may be my most favorite Disney attraction ever. Currently the original Carousel of Progress holds this title and I'm just not sure if it's fair to compare it against something that exists only in my memory now.

    You can not compare the cardboard facades of DCA to the glorious art work that is TDS' many areas.
    That's true but it also comes with a trade-off which is that the park cost about as much as Wynn Las Vegas to build and doesn't have the revenue edge of an industry-leading casino to recoup costs of construction. It's rather exciting that someone was willing to take the risk of doing TDS to the extent that it was done, but it's hardly not to be taken as an expectation. The atmosphere is so opulent that I'm not sure it's as warming to most tourists, a theory on why TDL continues to be the leading park at the resort.

    The cost was enormous, and the Disney method relies heavily on selling a lot of hotel rooms (which TDR is working on bringing online right now, and for history's sake notice how many hotel rooms were built in the years following EPCOT?) and moving a lot of merchandise that typically don't have the greatest profit margins. Maybe DisneySea will stay around for the next 105 years, and they'll have sold enough T-shirts be successful.

    The huge amount of theming is what made it more Disney and less Knott's. DCA is knotts, while TDS is not.
    While Disney has always had a few amusement park rides like the Astro Orbiter (based on a German ride model that used AA turret engines to spin the vehicles around) and the Mad Tea Party, I really don't think of a LAND filled with them is the best idea. At the end of the day, I'm riding the same balloon spin ride that exists at the county fair but someone put a new molding on the cabin to make it look like a giant fish. Fantasyland dark rides, even the cut-out ones like Mr Toad, are at least immersive. Mermaid's Lagoon would be excellent if they took out a couple rides and put a dark ride there.

    Again, I'm not saying TDS is bad, I'm saying it's so good in many places that it makes it obvious they didn't focus as well on other places (again, I think a second all-ages dark ride like 20K, probably in Mermaid's Lagoon where they have a lot of space taken up by rethemed carnival rides, is a good bet.)
    Last edited by MickeyMania; 12-10-2006 at 06:02 PM.

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