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  1. #31

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    Re: Tokyo Disney Sea 5th Celebrations:The Hangover!

    Quote Originally Posted by MickeyMania View Post
    Look, I didn't say that theming ISN'T fun, I just said it only adds to an extent. Clearly, the reason why I don't like Spirits is because it is SO UN-THEMED. It is seriously like they just laid some fancy looking boulders around a Knott's coaster and opened up
    You should ride it at least once just to see how fun it is. Dashing in and out of the ruins beats anything at Knott's, trust me. And it's not unthemed. If you went on, you would see the coaster wraps itself around many cracks and crevices in the altar with a blast of fog in one area. At night, it's even better! It may not be a good coaster, but theming is something that you cannot criticize Raging Spirits for.


    Quote Originally Posted by MickeyMania View Post
    The atmosphere is so opulent that I'm not sure it's as warming to most tourists, a theory on why TDL continues to be the leading park at the resort.
    I don't know why people would not prefer the atmosphere of Tokyo DisneySea over Tokyo Disneyland. Tokyo DisneySea's atmosphere certainly is far more romantic, charming, and drop-dead gorgeous, but I guess you can't beat the magic at Tokyo Disneyland.

    Quote Originally Posted by MickeyMania View Post
    The cost was enormous, and the Disney method relies heavily on selling a lot of hotel rooms
    Wasn't that why the Hotel MiraCosta was built as part of Tokyo DisneySea? It's currently the most popular hotel at the resort, being fully booked months ahead of time. It was very hard for me to make a reservation; the Ambassador Hotel is not nearly as popular for some reason. Guess they prefer the elegance and extravagance of the Hotel MiraCosta, as well as being able to stay overnight in Mediterranean Harbor.

    Quote Originally Posted by MickeyMania View Post
    Maybe DisneySea will stay around for the next 105 years, and they'll have sold enough T-shirts be successful.
    Aren't they already making a profit? I could've sworn that the annual report released by the OLC stated that they were making a profit. They passed the $3 billion investment mark for Tokyo DisneySea long ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by MickeyMania View Post
    I really don't think of a LAND filled with them is the best idea. At the end of the day, I'm riding the same balloon spin ride that exists at the county fair but someone put a new molding on the cabin to make it look like a giant fish. Fantasyland dark rides, even the cut-out ones like Mr Toad, are at least immersive. Mermaid's Lagoon would be excellent if they took out a couple rides and put a dark ride there.
    Don't they have an excellent E-ticket attraction that is the Mermaid Lagoon Theatre? It's the only reason why I would ever visit Mermaid Lagoon, as those kiddie rides don't do anything for me.
    Last edited by TDR_Fan; 12-10-2006 at 07:29 PM. Reason: Typo
    ~ Tokyo DisneySea’s Arabian Coast at nighttime ~


  2. #32

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    Re: Tokyo Disney Sea 5th Celebrations:The Hangover!

    Quote Originally Posted by TDR_Fan View Post
    You should ride it at least once just to see how fun it is.
    Each park visit, I'm riding something more intense than last time (next trip, both sides of Mission Space) so if I can go in 2008 I'll give it a run. I'm really (I mean REALLY) unhappy with roller coasters that go upside down, but I suppose doing so outdoors on something like RS is better than RNRC which does it in the dark.

    Maybe someday, I'm going to have to give our local rides a go. SPEED The Ride is basically a tall vertical loop that goes forwards and backwards, while Canyon Blaster is a typical Knotts coaster. You couldn't get me on Manhattan Express after ThemeParkReview's videos, though!

    Wasn't that why the Hotel MiraCosta was built as part of Tokyo DisneySea? It's currently the most popular hotel at the resort, being fully booked months ahead of time. It was very hard for me to make a reservation; the Ambassador Hotel is not nearly as popular for some reason. Guess they prefer the elegance and extravagance of the Hotel MiraCosta, as well as being able to stay overnight in Mediterranean Harbor.
    Well, the more Disney spends on parks the more they spend on hotels. EPCOT was the DisneySea of the 80s (even moreso, the most expensive private development yet in the world), and within five years plans were being drawn for GF, CBR (the first resort that was distinctly promoting quantity over quality), and then once they were finished to move to YC/BC and Port Orleans. To be fair, Swan/Dolphin were agreed upon as part of the construction deal.

    The whole decline of the experience that's been ballyhooed over and over at WDW was when managers realized they couldn't sustain things with their current hotel capacity.

    Even the DLR expansion, that was half the cost of TDS alone, depended on
    1) GCH being a success
    2) DTD being a success
    3) DCA being a success

    2 out of 3 ain't bad, but it didn't add up either, and the park suffered for it (turning DCA into what IIRC KevinYee once called a crack monkey on DL's back) until WDP&R corporate decided to base a whole campaign around the resort.

    They're going to begin expanding on making numbers over personal experience soon. It's beginning with the hotel going up right now.

    Aren't they already making a profit? I could've sworn that the annual report released by the OLC stated that they were making a profit. They passed the $3 billion investment mark for Tokyo DisneySea long ago.
    Can't see where that's coming from unless their visitors spend like addicts. I would imagine they're above target on their plan, though.

    Don't they have an excellent E-ticket attraction that is the Mermaid Lagoon Theatre? It's the only reason why I would ever visit Mermaid Lagoon, as those kiddie rides don't do anything for me.
    Shows where I come from, I guess. WDW treats scheduled entertainment as attractions, as well. I treat it as, uh, scheduled entertainment. Something like Fantasmic or a fireworks show.
    Last edited by MickeyMania; 12-10-2006 at 07:48 PM.

  3. #33

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    Re: Tokyo Disney Sea 5th Celebrations:The Hangover!

    Quote Originally Posted by TDR_Fan View Post
    Atmosphere and theming are far more important to me than attractions. And also, my favorite attractions are at Tokyo DisneySea. I only go to Tokyo Disneyland for Splash Mountain, Big Thunder Mountain, and Pooh's Hunny Hunt. Tokyo DisneySea has excellent E-ticket attractions AND phenomenal theming and details. I would rather take atmosphere and attractions instead of just attractions. However, I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority about this.
    I am with you. DisneySea needs to do yet another e-ticket attraction or get moving on a new port on the piece of land next to Lost River Delta. However, insufficient funds are going to hurt that. It's going to be rough for TDS this next year.

  4. #34

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    Re: Tokyo Disney Sea 5th Celebrations:The Hangover!

    If the people in Tokyo prefer a Magic Kingdom style park over the theming at Tokyo Disney Sea, then the next port built there should be a Fantasyland themed port next to Lost River Delta.


    Have a supercalifragilisticexpialidocious day!

  5. #35

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    Re: Tokyo Disney Sea 5th Celebrations:The Hangover!

    Quote Originally Posted by MickeyMania View Post
    Well, the more Disney spends on parks the more they spend on hotels. EPCOT was the DisneySea of the 80s (even moreso, the most expensive private development yet in the world).
    I can imagine so. It cost about $1.4 billion to build back in 1982 and it too had trouble. People criticized it for being un-Disney and boring, not containing enough attractions. However, it has grown to be the favorite out of the 4 Disney parks at Walt Disney World for many. Maybe it will just take time for Tokyo DisneySea to win people over.

    Quote Originally Posted by MickeyMania View Post
    Even the DLR expansion, that was half the cost of TDS alone, depended on
    1) GCH being a success
    2) DTD being a success
    3) DCA being a success
    Tokyo DisneySea actually cost more than double the price of the Disneyland Resort expansion. The cost at that time was about $3 billion, as compared to about $1.4 billion for the entire development of Disneyland into a resort.

    Quote Originally Posted by MickeyMania View Post
    They're going to begin expanding on making numbers over personal experience soon. It's beginning with the hotel going up right now.
    Do you have any other proof besides the new Tokyo Disneyland Hotel? I don't remember hearing about any other plans to expand the resort.

    Quote Originally Posted by MickeyMania View Post
    Shows where I come from, I guess. WDW treats scheduled entertainment as attractions, as well. I treat it as, uh, scheduled entertainment. Something like Fantasmic or a fireworks show.
    For some reason, they list Mermaid Lagoon Theatre as an attraction while listing Mystic Rhythms and Big Band Beat as shows. I don't know what makes Mermaid Lagoon Theatre so special to make it classify as an attraction.
    ~ Tokyo DisneySea’s Arabian Coast at nighttime ~


  6. #36

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    Re: Tokyo Disney Sea 5th Celebrations:The Hangover!

    Quote Originally Posted by TDR_Fan View Post
    For some reason, they list Mermaid Lagoon Theatre as an attraction while listing Mystic Rhythms and Big Band Beat as shows. I don't know what makes Mermaid Lagoon Theatre so special to make it classify as an attraction.
    It's just the style of theater, the show, and the fact that you can hold fastpasses.

  7. #37

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    Re: Tokyo Disney Sea 5th Celebrations:The Hangover!

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneySeaFan View Post
    I am with you. DisneySea needs to do yet another e-ticket attraction or get moving on a new port on the piece of land next to Lost River Delta. However, insufficient funds are going to hurt that. It's going to be rough for TDS this next year.
    I don't know if a new port would work that well. It would require lots of things to be changed, including the mural inside the lobby of the MiraCosta and numerous antique maps inside as well. Also, the 7 port of calls ties in nicely with the 7 Seas theme as well. I say just expand on existing ports, especially Port Discovery.

    Tokyo DisneySea needs one or two E-ticket dark rides like Pooh's Hunny Hunt. The best places for a dark ride would be in Mermaid Lagoon and Arabian Coast because this gives them the chance to include Disney characters as well, something proven to be very popular to the Japanese. They should avoid going too realistic and having full blown storylines like Tower of Terror and just design something simplistic and enjoyable.

    Like I said before, I would absolutely adore a Little Mermaid dark ride using Pooh's Hunny Hunt technology. Who cares if the scenes from the movie were used in the Mermaid Lagoon Theatre; just make up a new storyline.

    An Aladdin dark ride would also be great and allow a character tie-in to anchor that part of the park. As of now, the genie is the only character from the movie to be included in an attraction. Aladdin NEEDS to have his own attraction; having Jasmine would be a nice touch too. Imagine a fast-paced ride on the Magic Carpet through the Cave of Wonders!
    ~ Tokyo DisneySea’s Arabian Coast at nighttime ~


  8. #38

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    Re: Tokyo Disney Sea 5th Celebrations:The Hangover!

    This might be totally off topic but maybeTDR needs a 2fer deal. It worked tremendously over in Anaheim. Park Attendence for DCA exceeded DL, even if it was for a very short period of time. TDL might get so full it reaches capacity and they have to start sending visitors to the TDS, but that'll never happen considering the size of TDL compared to DL.

  9. #39

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    Re: Tokyo Disney Sea 5th Celebrations:The Hangover!

    Quote Originally Posted by FutureImagineer183 View Post
    This might be totally off topic but maybeTDR needs a 2fer deal. It worked tremendously over in Anaheim. Park Attendence for DCA exceeded DL, even if it was for a very short period of time. TDL might get so full it reaches capacity and they have to start sending visitors to the TDS, but that'll never happen considering the size of TDL compared to DL.
    Actually that has happened quite often. As you know, Tokyo Disneyland has reached capacity nearly every weekend during the peak season. Guests have nowhere else to go but to Tokyo DisneySea, which often reaches maximum capacity as well because of this. They're both very popular park, it's just one is more popular.

    And I don't really like the idea of having a "pay for one; get the second free" deal. It makes Tokyo DisneySea seem poor and reminds me of when a salesperson offers to give you a really lame item for free if you buy one of their products first. Tokyo DisneySea doesn't need that kind of help, although a Park Hopper option for the One & Two Day Magic Passports would be tremendously helpful.
    ~ Tokyo DisneySea’s Arabian Coast at nighttime ~


  10. #40

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    Re: Tokyo Disney Sea 5th Celebrations:The Hangover!

    I stand corrected. Maybe your right, TDS does need more dark rides. A very nice a popular posibility could be a Kingdom Hearts ride considering it'll feature most Disney characters and is quite popular in Japan. But this creates the problem of WHERE a ride like this should be placed.

  11. #41

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    Re: Tokyo Disney Sea 5th Celebrations:The Hangover!

    Quote Originally Posted by TDR_Fan View Post



    Aren't they already making a profit? I could've sworn that the annual report released by the OLC stated that they were making a profit. They passed the $3 billion investment mark for Tokyo DisneySea long ago.
    Correct. OLC has never gone into the red with TDR. While attendance at TDS is not what was hoped for, it's certainly no disappointment either when compared to DCA for example.

    Quote Originally Posted by TBAAFAN
    If the people in Tokyo prefer a Magic Kingdom style park over the theming at Tokyo Disney Sea, then the next port built there should be a Fantasyland themed port next to Lost River Delta.
    What do you think Mermaid Lagoon is??? Albeit, I would love to see the mythological aspect of Beastly kingdom broght to life here... After all, Mythica does such a great job of it every afternoon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Futureimagineer183
    This might be totally off topic but maybeTDR needs a 2fer deal.
    The resort already offers discounts on ongoing basis for both TDL and TDS, such as After 6pm passports, discounted seasonal admission to residents in the area or students, etc etc. There is no need to offer 2nd gate deals here as crowds at TDS have always been very visible, as opposed to the days when DCA saw 4,000 or so guests per day. TDS seems to hit 15 to 20,000 guests daily on it's slower days..(that is an assessment based on my observations)

    I stand corrected. Maybe your right, TDS does need more dark rides.
    Not so fast there... you are right on the 2nd deal... but you got it wrong too. One of the primary reasons why TDS has had a hard time getting it's fair share of guests is because of the restrictive policies of pass admission at TDR. The fact that guests can't parkhop unless they buy a 3 or 4 day passport or a premium AP hurts TDS' numbers the most, as most guests with limited time will always choose TDL over TDS for a quick visit. Inmy opinion... it has nothing to do with a park having better quality over the other... but TDL will always win because it's what Disneyland is supposed to be about, and also because TDL does have more to offer, hence it's a better value for a short 1 or 2 day visit to TDR. As for TDS needing more dark rides... well..sure! It would be nice to see more dark rides, but TDS already is a full day experience with enough rides, shows and things to do to fill your 9am till 10pm agenda. Trust me on that. Whether some of you may just be "ride crazy" as opposed to taking in the whole TDS experience.. well frankly, that is the guest's fault more that TDS'.

  12. #42

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    Re: Tokyo Disney Sea 5th Celebrations:The Hangover!

    Quote Originally Posted by TDR_Fan View Post
    For some reason, they list Mermaid Lagoon Theatre as an attraction while listing Mystic Rhythms and Big Band Beat as shows. I don't know what makes Mermaid Lagoon Theatre so special to make it classify as an attraction.
    Mermaid Lagoon Theater and Magic Lamp Theater are attractions since they feature continuous performances just like "Indiana Jones" or "StormRider". The basic difference is in the use of live performers instead of only AA's or a moving vehicle. Mystic Rhythms is a scheduled stage show with appointed times that guests can view the performance.

    Now, the difference may be subtle and I may not necessarily agree with their classifications, but this was explained to the media back when the Park opened.

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  13. #43

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    Re: Tokyo Disney Sea 5th Celebrations:The Hangover!

    Quote Originally Posted by TDLFAN View Post
    TDS already is a full day experience with enough rides, shows and things to do to fill your 9am till 10pm agenda. Trust me on that. Whether some of you may just be "ride crazy" as opposed to taking in the whole TDS experience.. well frankly, that is the guest's fault more that TDS'.
    I agree. I can easily spend 2-3 days at Tokyo DisneySea and still see something new each time. In fact, that is exactly what I did when I visited. I only left one day for Tokyo Disneyland, as I had seen most of it here in Disneyland. I caught most of the attractions, saw the Tokyo Disneyland Electrical Parade Dreamlights, felt like I got a good feel for the park, then went back to Tokyo DisneySea. It just offers so much more than any other Disney park for me, beating even the Magic Kingdom style parks.

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeInJpn View Post
    Mermaid Lagoon Theater and Magic Lamp Theater are attractions since they feature continuous performances just like "Indiana Jones" or "StormRider". The basic difference is in the use of live performers instead of only AA's or a moving vehicle. Mystic Rhythms is a scheduled stage show with appointed times that guests can view the performance.

    Now, the difference may be subtle and I may not necessarily agree with their classifications, but this was explained to the media back when the Park opened.

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    Thanks for the explanation.
    ~ Tokyo DisneySea’s Arabian Coast at nighttime ~


  14. #44

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    Re: Tokyo Disney Sea 5th Celebrations:The Hangover!

    Quote Originally Posted by TDLFAN View Post

    Not so fast there... you are right on the 2nd deal... but you got it wrong too. One of the primary reasons why TDS has had a hard time getting it's fair share of guests is because of the restrictive policies of pass admission at TDR. The fact that guests can't parkhop unless they buy a 3 or 4 day passport or a premium AP hurts TDS' numbers the most, as most guests with limited time will always choose TDL over TDS for a quick visit. Inmy opinion... it has nothing to do with a park having better quality over the other... but TDL will always win because it's what Disneyland is supposed to be about, and also because TDL does have more to offer, hence it's a better value for a short 1 or 2 day visit to TDR. As for TDS needing more dark rides... well..sure! It would be nice to see more dark rides, but TDS already is a full day experience with enough rides, shows and things to do to fill your 9am till 10pm agenda. Trust me on that. Whether some of you may just be "ride crazy" as opposed to taking in the whole TDS experience.. well frankly, that is the guest's fault more that TDS'.
    Thanks for the facts. This just brings up one question, why are people complaining then if TDS is doing great? It's not AS great as they expected, but there are still big numbers of attendence. Your right, TDS doesn't need to change. The reason that it has less number than DL has been stated more than once, TDS lacks Disney characters, which is what the Jap. love. But I see they are starting to work on that little, by little with those shows of theirs.

    Personally, my excitement to go to TDS and TDL are equal for they both have unique experiences you wont find in the American Parks. When I'm off to college, I'll make sure to squeeze TDR in, for I most likely will study overseas (New Zealand and Paris are top of my list right now) with the exchange program offered in many colleges. All that you guys and I have to do is wait and see what happens.

  15. #45

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    Re: Tokyo Disney Sea 5th Celebrations:The Hangover!

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneySeaFan View Post
    It's just the style of theater, the show, and the fact that you can hold fastpasses.
    How do you linejump on a theater where a crowd of people go in at once? The only saving grace of FP on regular attractions is that things operate normally no matter which line they pull the next guest from.

    And no, since I'm asking, I've seen neither country's Mermaid show which I know both have FP. It's not my favorite story, even though I hear the Tokyo one has a bunch of aerialist stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by TDR_Fan View Post
    I can imagine so. It cost about $1.4 billion to build back in 1982 and it too had trouble. People criticized it for being un-Disney and boring, not containing enough attractions. However, it has grown to be the favorite out of the 4 Disney parks at Walt Disney World for many. Maybe it will just take time for Tokyo DisneySea to win people over.
    EPCOT had to bend a bit to tastes as much as tastes had to bend to EPCOT.

    I've mentioned this before, but I think a great idea for the next land at TDS would be a Port of Imagination with the JII characters. Figment could be a popular character since he'd be new to that area aside from the guests who have visited WDW and would give at least part of the park it's own mascot. Dreamfinder, with a bit of a cultural makeover (make him look more a bit more like a cartoon character, a bit less like a real person) would work, too. The imagination theme leaves the door open to any number of fictions without playing "what region is this idea best suited for?" with the current lands.

    Supposedly, WDI is working on a new JII and pinning it being green-lit to celebrate Epcot's 25th but I don't think it's going to happen. Whether it does or does not, bringing it to TDS as the centerpiece of a brightly colored new land would give that park the whimsy touch it's missing out on.

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