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  1. #16

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    Re: Why are a lot of the Disney Princes such Creeps?

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    Don't get me wrong, I love new classics such as Princess and the Frog and Brave. But I kinda get a feeling that to emphasize the princesses' intelligence and good heartedness, they are a lot of really creepy Disney male characters that make me feel embarrassed to even be part of the male gender:
    Well, I think that in The Princess and the Frog both characters had something to teach the other. Tiana has many good qualities, to be sure, but her workaholism was a bit overbearing.

    As for Brave, I'm not sure that intelligence and good-heartedness characterize how Merida started out--foolishness and stone-cold myopic selfishness seem to better describe her behavior. Of course, I'm not saying that she is really this bad by any means, but she definitely had some learning and growing to do, like many people her age.

    There are definitely some "girl power" and male-denigration elements in many movies today that have long since become tiresome, in my opinion, but it's not quite that bad in most Disney movies.

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    1. Gaston. Yeah, I know he's not a Disney prince, but it seems that as Disney wanted to break the princess mould with Belle, they juxtaposed her with a complete male chauvanistic pig to bring out her good qualities, Gaston was kinda a new low for Disney male characters.
    I thought that Belle was juxtaposed with the Bimbettes and the rest of the inhabitants of the town, who unlike her couldn't see Gaston's bad qualities through his appearance.

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    2. The Beast. Not the nicest guy, and is rehabilitated by Belle.
    The Beast is really the protagonist in this version of the story in terms of needing to learn and grow, not unlike Merida for example, so of course he's going to have some issues (Belle is also the protagonist primarily in terms of audience empathy and point of view, although she does learn to be less aloof and more understanding/accommodating). Gaston is his foil, much like how the townsfolk are Belle's foil.

    As for the Beast's rehabilitation, Belle certainly was the catalyst, but it was learning to care deeply for somebody besides himself that rehabilitated him, again not unlike Merida, who was the real "beast" in Brave.

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    3. Prince Naveen. A bonafide Disney prince, but he's pretty much a creep throughout the whole film.
    OK, I'll give you this one. It's not that he's really bad, but SO lazy and kind of a jerk at times.

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    4. Flynn Rider. Need I say more, another Disney creepy guy who needs to be rehabilitated by the princesses.
    Flynn is not creepy, in my opinion--he just needed to learn that there is more to life than owning your own island and being surrounded by piles of money. If anything, he was perhaps a little too kind and worldly (in a positive way) for this type of character, but then again Rapunzel was the main protagonist here.

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    Sure, Disney has its share of female villains, but the princes seem to either be generic princes, or guys with serious personality defects who are "rehabilitated" during the film.
    The latter is an example of character development, which if anything means that the princesses have historically been somewhat slighted, on the whole, in terms of their roles in these stories. The only thing that is brave about Brave is that it gives the "defects" and "rehabilitation" to female characters, particularly Merida (in fact, it went so far in this regard that it just about lost me--what she did to her mother, even though she felt she had her reasons, was absolutely disgusting!).

    Quote Originally Posted by WildeNight View Post
    I do think that the Disney princess movies send across a poor message for young girls about "changing" others with love. In the real world it really doesn't work like that.
    What doesn't work in the real world is trying to change a person behaving badly by loving them (in a romantic sense)--that's foolhardy and self-destructive, and frankly I don't see how anybody could even manage to do this, but nevertheless there are numerous examples of people (mostly women, that I've seen, but some men, too) who for some crazy reason "love" (a strange form of "puppy love") those who abuse and take advantage of them.

    Now, the Disney movies that involve "rehabilitating" certain characters are a bit different. These are characters who are still young and need to grow and develop as people. For instance, it wasn't Belle's love that changed the Beast, it was his love for her. She just wanted to get out of that place. Belle did serve as a good example for the Beast as well as the object of his affection, but it was not she who actively tried to change him (the stupid made-for-video sequels notwithstanding)--his change happened on the inside, and resulted in him sacrificing his salvation for her freedom (no strings attached), much like how Belle had sacrificed her freedom for her father's life earlier. Only afterward did Belle realize that she had grown to love him, too.

    Cases like this are admittedly rare in the real world among adults (and we are talking about young people in these movies), much like how most criminals are repeat offenders and most serious drug addicts can never fully rehabilitate. Then again, it does happen--some criminals do in fact genuinely reform and some addicts completely overcome their problems. What's really needed is a huge shift in perspective--an epiphany--and this happens on the inside, not just because somebody else did something to you. Watch the Beast when he looked at the enchanted rose after Belle said her father needed her (as well as when Cogsworth questioned him afterward), and for that matter when Wreck-It Ralph looked at the candy hero medal that Vanellope made for him while plunging to his apparent doom--NOW they get it, and finally know who they are. It's a bit more dramatic than most such cases in real life, but that's why these are movies that people pay to watch.

    Quote Originally Posted by sbk1234 View Post
    Sure the girls like Gaston. He's good looking. It's easy to overlook a LOT when someone is attractive.
    It's sad to see how true this is in real life, but it is. And it's not as though Gaston did anything evil to anybody at this point--his inner ugliness only manifested itself as evil acts (powered by extreme egotism) when he came up against somebody he couldn't fool. I guess Belle has a way of bringing out the truth, even without really trying, which can be a gift and a curse.

  2. #17

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    Re: Why are a lot of the Disney Princes such Creeps?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougeebear View Post
    Snow White: Prince Charming is a necrophiliac intent on making out with a corpse.
    Sleeping Beauty: Another Princely necrophiliac.
    Not exactly the same thing, but this reminds me of the following:
    John Scalzi - An Experiment in Accurate But Misleading Movie Descriptions - AMC Blog - AMC

    Quote Originally Posted by dougeebear View Post
    Cinderella: Prince incapable of recognizing her face,​ instead puts attention on her shoes. Foot fetish anyone?
    He was just trying so hard not to crush her feet with his clumsiness. Either that or he only digs chicks who apparently have no distinct toes (seriously, Cinderella doesn't have any ).

  3. #18

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    Re: Why are a lot of the Disney Princes such Creeps?

    Meh, didn't like Brave.

    Loved The Princess and the Frog

  4. #19

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    Re: Why are a lot of the Disney Princes such Creeps?

    I am also in the I love Gaston club. He's just a funny character. I know he's supposed to be evil but in the beginning he's just a pompous jerk. There's a great shirt I bought last time I was in DL with him.

    Also, I completely agree WildeNight, that princess movies send the message that love can "change" others, when indeed this sets up young girls for a whole lot of reality checks!

    "We keep moving forward, opening new doors, and doing new things because we're curious and curiosity keeps leading us down new paths." ~ Walt Disney



  5. #20

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    Re: Why are a lot of the Disney Princes such Creeps?

    I actually dont find Gaston attractive at all. Im not a fan of the muscle-y types *blegh* I just love his character and how ridiculous he is

  6. #21

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    Re: Why are a lot of the Disney Princes such Creeps?

    What bothers me about some of the Disney princesses is their passivity - with Snow White, Sleeping Beauty, etc. they wait for someone to come and save them. Disney has been working on that, though and the characters generally work things out for themselves (sometimes with help from their friends, but still!) And actually, even back in the day they had a lot of strong women like Maleficent, the three good fairies, the fairy godmother, Tinker Bell, Alice, etc. who were pretty formidable about changing their world, whether for good or bad.

    With the male characters, in a lot of cases they're not the central point of the story but I think there are some wonderful ones. How about Captain Sheng in Mulan? There's a character who is honestly a good guy throughout. The one moment where he goes south in Mulan is dictated by his traditional beliefs, and after he thinks for a moment he chooses his own ethics over traditionalism. Ditto with Prince Eric in The Little Mermaid. He plucks Ariel off the beach without any thought of doing anything other than helping her.

    There are Simba in The Lion King and Mowgli in The Jungle Book who aren't princes, but are strong male characters who go through a major developmental process during their respective films. Actually in The Jungle Book every single major character is male, so you have the strong Bagheera and Baloo guiding Mowgli. There are Dumbo and Timothy in Dumbo and Pinocchio and Jiminy Cricket who similarly are duos of male characters who go through a learning process and learn to work together.

    The Beast in B&B bothers me if I look at it through the Stockholm Syndrome lenses - ie, Belle is a prisoner who grows to love her captor - but there's another side of the story, obviously.

    With Merida in Brave, I agree that she is the heroine and villain in the same film. Between the two of her parents her dad is the more sympathetic one. When you think that she's trying to avoid getting married and losing her identity you see how she does what she does out of desperation, and she immediately tries to remedy things because she knows she done screwed up so I see that more of a "good character screws up and has to fix it" than a "villainous character screws up and laughs" moment.
    Last edited by Malina; 05-04-2013 at 01:05 PM.

  7. #22

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    Re: Why are a lot of the Disney Princes such Creeps?

    Quote Originally Posted by OceanAlice View Post
    I am also in the I love Gaston club. He's just a funny character. I know he's supposed to be evil but in the beginning he's just a pompous jerk. There's a great shirt I bought last time I was in DL with him.

    Also, I completely agree WildeNight, that princess movies send the message that love can "change" others, when indeed this sets up young girls for a whole lot of reality checks!
    I agree with that. If a young girl goes to a Disney film and gets the idea "it doesn't matter if he treats me badly or is a mean person...my love will change him from a beast to a prince!" it's a very dangerous message to take away.

  8. #23

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    Re: Why are a lot of the Disney Princes such Creeps?

    I don't know that I "like" either Beast or Gaston, but they did get the best music!
    I pledge allegiance to the Earth, one planet, many gods, and to the universe in which she spins.

  9. #24

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    Re: Why are a lot of the Disney Princes such Creeps?

    As far as Snow (1938), Aurora (1959), & Cinderella (1950) go you have to remember the era in which they were originally created as well as the era the in which the movies were released. Those 3 are products of another generation and they (& the Princes) need to be recognized for what they are, the reflection of society as it existed then and not expect them to reflect modern values or attitudes. At this point, I don't think it would be realistic to try to turn them into pinnacles of modern womanhood. There's no reason we can't cherish them yet point out to our children that men and women aren't like that today. I don't think we need to send these Princesses (& their Princes) to the 'Song of the South' vault just because they reflect an outdated view of gender roles.

    I think that beginning with the next 'Princess' movie (Little Mermaid, 1989) Disney has taken steps in trying to make the heroine a little more 'modern' and the hero a little less 'heroic'. Overall they haven't done a bad job. After all, these are still fantasy movies with broadly drawn characters. Adults know how the real world works. And it's the role of the parent to explain and reinforce the lessons they want their children to learn from the movies they see.
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  10. #25

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    Re: Why are a lot of the Disney Princes such Creeps?

    Quote Originally Posted by KellyMcG86 View Post
    Gaston is one of my all time favorite characters lol Hey, at least he's confident!
    Mine's Brom Bones.....also strong and confident with the intelligence to back it up.


    and...

    Unlike the Beast and Gaston, no one had to be imprisoned for him to win his Princesses heart
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  11. #26

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    Re: Why are a lot of the Disney Princes such Creeps?

    i think it is because of the wigs. We do not know them that well unlike the princesses. During Fantasmic, it is weird to see them dance around in tights. Fairytales are fairytales, creepy to see the men roles in real life
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  12. #27

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    Re: Why are a lot of the Disney Princes such Creeps?

    Nothing wrong with a man in tights... or a kilt for that matter.
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    Me: "Yes. It happened after a recent trip to Neverland."
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  13. #28

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    Re: Why are a lot of the Disney Princes such Creeps?

    Quote Originally Posted by White Bones View Post
    Meh, didn't like Brave.
    I don't, either--clearly Wreck-It Ralph was robbed at the Oscars. Not that this award actually means anything, as "labels not make you happy."

    Quote Originally Posted by OceanAlice View Post
    Also, I completely agree WildeNight, that princess movies send the message that love can "change" others, when indeed this sets up young girls for a whole lot of reality checks!
    Among the princess movies, it's really only Beauty and the Beast, and even then it's not about Belle changing the Beast by loving him--he "changed" by himself when he learned that he could love her.

    Now, Wreck-It Ralph is the movie in which the male protagonist is actually "changed" in part because another character loved him, but nobody complains about that. It's really just about characters who need to learn about themselves, others, and the world around them, as opposed to truly changing who they are. Even the Beast's initially ghastly behavior is that of a child who doesn't know better, frozen in time until he could be tested--he wasn't ugly at the core like Gaston.

    In real life, all too many girls (and even grown women) try to change guys like Gaston by throwing themselves at them and continually putting up with abuse (emotional if not physical), but that's not what happened in either of the two movies I've mentioned.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    The Beast in B&B bothers me if I look at it through the Stockholm Syndrome lenses - ie, Belle is a prisoner who grows to love her captor - but there's another side of the story, obviously.
    But that's like saying The Wizard of Oz is about a girl who "kills the first person she meets and then teams up with three strangers to kill again"--there may be some superficial factual truth, but in reality it is a misrepresentation, much like taking things out of context. Belle did not irrationally fall in love with the Beast as a survival mechanism due to abuse--she only did so after she began to understand what kind of a person he really was, and only after he began to treat her right and release her, no questions asked. Before this, she stubbornly stood up to him, and didn't take his side when he was doing bad things just to gain his favor.

    With Stockholm syndrome, we get weird stuff like hostages taking on the perspectives of their captors and sympathizing with them to the point of willfully aiding and abetting them in criminal activities--it's as though sheer terror made something in their heads go "snap" and they lost their minds. Belle did not lose her mind like this in any way, shape, or form--if anybody suffered from Stockholm syndrome in this movie, it might have been the Beast! I mean, he was a prisoner, too, in his own right, and was compelled to fall in love in order to save himself. That said, I think that he really loved Belle, too, rather than merely losing his mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    I agree with that. If a young girl goes to a Disney film and gets the idea "it doesn't matter if he treats me badly or is a mean person...my love will change him from a beast to a prince!" it's a very dangerous message to take away.
    This, to me, is a strange message to derive from Disney's Beauty and the Beast--Belle didn't love the Beast until he learned, like so many young people have to, not to be so self-absorbed. For contrast, Gaston was inherently this way, while the Beast just needed to grow up. Even Belle could not see past his initial behavior, and she hated his guts, but when he started to grow out of it, then she could see who he really was. It's nothing like the real-life cases that come up on Dr. Phil all the time.

    As for the direct-to-video crap based on this movie, the characters' personalities and their relationship are not the same at all. I can see how some of these movies could give dangerous messages, based on my vague recollections of them, but I'm talking about the original movie.

  14. #29

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    Re: Why are a lot of the Disney Princes such Creeps?

    Quote Originally Posted by frollofan View Post
    I smell a Battle of the Sexes debate. lol. Just because the princes have certain character flaws does not necessarily constitute them as "creeps." And what's wrong with princes that are rehabilitated? Isn't that what captures the interest of the audience? If the Beast did not have anger issues, then what would Belle and the Beast do during the screen time? It would be quite boring imo. If Aladdin was not a thief, what conflict would there be for him to overcome internally when trying to win Jasmine's heart. In Disney's early history, yes I can agree that the princes were bland and a bit creepy. The Snow prince stalking Snow White as she sings in the wishing well and later kissing with no relationship development. The same goes for Prince Phillip in the forest scene. However, I have to disagree about the later examples such those from the Disney Renaissance of the 1990's.
    Glad your nose is so sensitive! I shall think about Disney movies and boys and get back to you.

    At the top of my head (another facial metaphor) Sleeping Beauty, given the amount of screen time total, portrays the epitome of a prince.

    Other than that I think that sometimes we Princesses & Queens confuse men with dogs; dogs will give you unconditional love, but humans of both genders are more primitive.
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  15. #30

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    Re: Why are a lot of the Disney Princes such Creeps?

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    1. Gaston. Yeah, I know he's not a Disney prince, but it seems that as Disney wanted to break the princess mould with Belle, they juxtaposed her with a complete male chauvanistic pig to bring out her good qualities, Gaston was kinda a new low for Disney male characters.

    2. The Beast. Not the nicest guy, and is rehabilitated by Belle.
    Gaston is the villain; Love and desire are what's required for rehabilitation in these romances, the Beast is deserving because he's under a curse...

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    3. Prince Naveen. A bonafide Disney prince, but he's pretty much a creep throughout the whole film.

    4. Flynn Rider. Need I say more, another Disney creepy guy who needs to be rehabilitated by the princesses.
    I haven't met those guys so I don't know. Number 5, Aladdin, is another rehabilitation case. If I had to rehabilitate anyone, I'd probably go with the Beast. I love caressing a furry face, and a Beast is sorta like a Giant Chihuahua.
    Last edited by DobbysCloset; 05-04-2013 at 03:23 PM. Reason: I love a furry face.
    "Ignore the Chihuahua behind the curtain."

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