View Poll Results: How do you rate "Frozen"?

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  • 5 Stars: An instant Disney classic!

    31 54.39%
  • 4 Stars: An enjoyable spectacle!

    13 22.81%
  • 3 Stars: Worth a watch

    8 14.04%
  • 2 Stars: Put it in the freezer for a while.

    5 8.77%
  • 1 Star: Let it go.

    0 0%
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  1. #46

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    Re: Frozen Reviews and Thoughts

    Well said about love, pineapplewhipaddict, and I wouldn't disagree too much on those points. But in the end, I wish it was a whole lot more than that. Olaf, is actually the character that truly represents unconditional love. Anna represents sisterly love or family love that just exists.

    I heard a lot of people say that what makes Frozen great is that it breaks the "tired disney formula". And I'd say, yeah, it could have done that anyway with a better story. But is it REALLY breaking the formula?

    Last I checked, Anna does not sing about saving her kingdom covered in ice. She sings not one but TWO songs about finding love. One is about the potential of meeting that love and the second is meeting that love. When that doesn't work, she just falls in love with the next guy. Is that really breaking the tired formula? It's a twist on it maybe, but not a break like people suggest.

    Elsa's motivations… aren't really established well. She has no goals but instead to keep hiding. Her song "let it go" then comes out of left field. Maybe she should have sung about wanting to let go before it actually happened? The song comes too late and serves the forced script, rather than the needs of her character.

    I wish her parents died on a quest to find a cure for her, making Elsa even more guilt-ridden. I wish she ran away because she couldn't take it anymore… not because she didn't want to "hurt" anyone. "oh whoops, did i do that? i can't help you" is what Elsa is. Not that great of a character. I don't mind flaws in character but when they lack motivation, it's disappointing.


    Nobody changes by the end of the movie. Elsa learns control but that's it. Everyone else is the same.


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  2. #47

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    Re: Frozen Reviews and Thoughts

    I was not impressed with Frozen for many of the reasons mentioned by Witches of Morva and Monkeydishwasher. I did not appreciate the modern language/ personalities. Several of the voice actors did not work with the characters for me. The voice of Olaf drove me crazy. It is far too over the top... like when you hear someone speak in contrived ooey gooey baby talk to a group of kids. The trolls were also obnoxious. The style of music used seemed very out of place for the film. I wish they had developed Elsa''s character more and given more of the story from her perspective.
    On the positive side, the animation was good quality and the basic idea for the story is interesting. I just think it could have been much more than it was. I was very hopeful when the movie first started and it was beautiful and nitty gritty at the same time and I thought I was going to be in for a real treat...

    I give Frozen 2.5/5 stars. I don't know if I'll ever watch it again and I can't imagine ever considering it a classic.

  3. #48

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    Re: Frozen Reviews and Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Coheteboy View Post
    Well said about love, pineapplewhipaddict, and I wouldn't disagree too much on those points. But in the end, I wish it was a whole lot more than that. Olaf, is actually the character that truly represents unconditional love. Anna represents sisterly love or family love that just exists.

    I heard a lot of people say that what makes Frozen great is that it breaks the "tired disney formula". And I'd say, yeah, it could have done that anyway with a better story. But is it REALLY breaking the formula?

    Last I checked, Anna does not sing about saving her kingdom covered in ice. She sings not one but TWO songs about finding love. One is about the potential of meeting that love and the second is meeting that love. When that doesn't work, she just falls in love with the next guy. Is that really breaking the tired formula? It's a twist on it maybe, but not a break like people suggest.

    Elsa's motivations… aren't really established well. She has no goals but instead to keep hiding. Her song "let it go" then comes out of left field. Maybe she should have sung about wanting to let go before it actually happened? The song comes too late and serves the forced script, rather than the needs of her character.

    I wish her parents died on a quest to find a cure for her, making Elsa even more guilt-ridden. I wish she ran away because she couldn't take it anymore… not because she didn't want to "hurt" anyone. "oh whoops, did i do that? i can't help you" is what Elsa is. Not that great of a character. I don't mind flaws in character but when they lack motivation, it's disappointing.


    Nobody changes by the end of the movie. Elsa learns control but that's it. Everyone else is the same.
    I disagree. Elsa learns that fear prohibits one from truly loving another, and Anna learns that marriage is something that should not be rushed. In the end, yes she loves Kristoff. But it is implied that he is merely a boyfriend at the moment when he kisses her. I imagine that she is not going to marry him for awhile. It was kinda like with Tangled. Repunzel loved Flynn, but they did not marry at the end. "After years and years of asking, he finally agreed to marry her" (Disney Wiki).




  4. #49

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    Re: Frozen Reviews and Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by frollofan View Post
    I disagree. Elsa learns that fear prohibits one from truly loving another, and Anna learns that marriage is something that should not be rushed. In the end, yes she loves Kristoff. But it is implied that he is merely a boyfriend at the moment when he kisses her. I imagine that she is not going to marry him for awhile. It was kinda like with Tangled. Repunzel loved Flynn, but they did not marry at the end. "After years and years of asking, he finally agreed to marry her" (Disney Wiki).

    All trivial though. Just because there's no marriage at the end of Frozen doesn't mean she's changed. And I'm sure it's more Kristoff that hasn't proposed yet.

    Frozen does get things right. A lot of it in fact. But to me, it's the really important things that it doesn't get right.

    John Singh's review is probably the closest one I've found to agreeing with how I feel (and I also gave it a 3/5): Out There In The Dark: Thoughts on the Movies: "Frozen"

    "Musically, the movie is all over the place; combining musical styles can work well (think about the calypso beats and Broadway standards ofMermaid), here the pop-rock love ballads don't quite mesh with the more standards songs. The music is merely fine rather than spectacular.

    Best of all are the supporting characters, especially the endlessly amusing, thoroughly adorable snowman named Olaf, who longs to know what summer is like; and a helpful-if-dim reindeer named Sven. It's also enjoyable to see the standard gender roles reversed -- even in female-driven movies like Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty and even Tangled, the women wanted to please the men. In Frozen, the men are strong, interesting characters but secondary to the movie's two females.

    It's a shame, then, that the plight of Anna and Elsa doesn't quite feel as strong as it should. In a visually ravishing sequence, Elsa flees her kingdom and vows never to return -- but her selfishness is presented as a sort of declaration of independence, and unlike, say, Elphaba's key "Defying Gravity" moment, it feels pressured by plot contrivance rather than character.

    Similarly, Anna's determination to find her sister struggles for justification. Her kingdom is under a snowy permafrost, but Anna is less concerned about that than being snubbed by her sister for the umpteenth time."


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  5. #50

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    Re: Frozen Reviews and Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Coheteboy View Post
    All trivial though. Just because there's no marriage at the end of Frozen doesn't mean she's changed. And I'm sure it's more Kristoff that hasn't proposed yet.
    I think she did change though. When Hans betrayed her, you would think that a light bulb went off in her head telling her to take more caution and time when searching for true love.




  6. #51

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    Re: Frozen Reviews and Thoughts

    Again, another cautionary tale that appearances are deceiving.

    I know I might get flacks or this, but most of the people who say that the films heroines are just a part of Disney's marketing agenda and an attempt to be PC need to look over the film again.

    I can't recall anything specifically on this forum, but many other forums are showing hostility towards the films for the reasons for their belief in the reasons I have stated.

    If one is to look back at the princesses in Walt's time, they were the stereotypical damsels in distress who constantly needed saving (Snow White), or spent half the film doing absolutely nothing (Aurora). The only one I felt had a personality and some character was Cinderella. Yes she did have a perfect happy ending but she was working herself to the bone the whole movie. She was patient, and tolerable towards her step mother and sisters. Comes to show that hard work and determination will possibly reward a person in the end.

    The princesses from Ariel on to present day showed the progression in what women can do in society in today's age. Ariel is rebellious, Belle doesn't just let a man have his way with her, Mulan joins the army to save her father, Tiana is a hard worker much like Cindy. Even Repunzel is rebellious and saves the day. Which leads to Anna and Elsa (the first Queen that's not evil, parents don't count). Anna doesn't just send the men to go after Elsa, she goes after her herself, even though she does gain assistance later on.

    I could go on forever about this issue, but I'm just getting worked up again. The people who make attacks on this film for being sexist are either desperate for attention, or misguided.

    I have spoken my piece. Good day.

  7. #52

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    Re: Frozen Reviews and Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by LordVader View Post
    I could go on forever about this issue, but I'm just getting worked up again. The people who make attacks on this film for being sexist are either desperate for attention, or misguided.
    Please continue forever... without insulting other members intentionally or unintentionally, directed or not. Thanks.


    As for the rest of your post... are anyone here discussing PC vs Un-PC? I think we're mostly in favor of the girls doing something different. But in the end, was it different enough? Were their relationship deep enough? For me, it wasn't.

    If anything though, this film is about suppression. Forcing people to do what they're expected to. To not be themselves. "Let it go" is an anthem for these people and I think that's great. But, at the same time, I think there's a lot more details in their characters that could have been fleshed out more and would have been much more satisfying.

    If you ARE satisfied, great. I'm glad.


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  8. #53

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    Re: Frozen Reviews and Thoughts

    I agree about the theme of suppression in this film. Elsa's story reminded me very much of a mutant from X-Men with people being shocked and unknowingly afraid of her powers.

    When I was referring to the PC stuff, it was mostly about other posters on other forums. There are articles out there with people claiming this film to be too PC as well.
    No finger pointing has been going around this forum (unlike some others), it's relatively tame here, and I like that

    Regarding the last comment of my post, it wasn't directed to anyone on this forum in particular, and I apologize if I may have offended anybody with that comment.

    Lord Vader Out...

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    Re: Frozen Reviews and Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Coheteboy View Post
    Olaf, is actually the character that truly represents unconditional love. Anna represents sisterly love or family love that just exists.
    Olaf also represents the childhood bond--as sisters and pals--between Anna and Elsa, as well as aspects of Elsa that she believes she cannot express, such as her longing and need for a warm hug (being able to express and receive love in a positive way) and warmth in general (more figurative for her and more literal for him, but neither can have it without dire consequences). Olaf's love for Anna stands in for Elsa, who lives in fear of hurting people, Anna in particular (Elsa wouldn't even come near her until the ball when they were both expected to be present).

    Anna represents the same thing that the protagonist of The Snow Queen, Gerda, does: childlike innocence that sees the good in everything. Although in this movie her innocence does not win everybody over like it does in the original fairy tale, it is ultimately what saves the day for everybody--despite the coldness with which Elsa had treated her for so many years, and the mortal wound that she had inflicted (by accident), Anna still sees the good in Elsa and truly loves her.

    This parallels the relationship between Gerda and Kai in the fairy tale, although unlike Kai Elsa wasn't really corrupted by evil magic--instead her love and concern for others had become an insidious vicious cycle of fear that controlled her actions, effectively enslaving her psychologically. One of the themes of this movie is that love is not just something you have, it's something that you need to express in a positive way through your actions. Elsa was expressing her love by isolating herself and eventually banishing herself when circumstances warranted, but this manner ended up hurting others, particularly Anna, in other ways.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coheteboy View Post
    I heard a lot of people say that what makes Frozen great is that it breaks the "tired disney formula". And I'd say, yeah, it could have done that anyway with a better story. But is it REALLY breaking the formula?

    Last I checked, Anna does not sing about saving her kingdom covered in ice. She sings not one but TWO songs about finding love. One is about the potential of meeting that love and the second is meeting that love. When that doesn't work, she just falls in love with the next guy. Is that really breaking the tired formula? It's a twist on it maybe, but not a break like people suggest.
    The "formula" was broken in that Anna did not understand true love and paid the price for that. She literally called what she and Hans shared "true love" while accusing Elsa of knowing less than her, when the reality was that Elsa knew and practiced it every day (her fear came from her concern for others, not selfishness). Anna had to learn the meaning of true love and prove it in order to save herself, and her act of true love was to sacrifice herself for her sister, not receive a kiss from some guy she only recently got to know. For most people, this is a significant break from what they (and the characters themselves) had expected.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coheteboy View Post
    Elsa's motivations… aren't really established well. She has no goals but instead to keep hiding.
    Elsa's motivations aren't spoon-fed to the audience, but I think that they are pretty clear. Her goals were to avoid harming people with her powers while trying to fulfill her duties as the future and eventually present Queen. She tried to control the "leakage" of her powers (caused by fear) the only way she had been taught, which was to repress her emotions and ultimately everything that she was as a person. This was the sacrifice that she made for the sake of others.

    Before her vicious cycle of fear began due to an accident (when she was only a child), she had had no trouble with her powers, and could touch people without fear. But when the accident happened, the trolls' warnings about fear, though apparently well intentioned and technically accurate, ironically made her fearful, which made her lose control of her powers, which then only reinforced her fear to the point where she avoided all unnecessary interaction and all physical contact with people. It's too bad that these "love experts" didn't see fit to provide any real guidance on managing her fear while making sure that love was something she could express in a positive way. Instead, Elsa's love was turned into fear, and she was effectively turned into a recluse who shunned others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coheteboy View Post
    Her song "let it go" then comes out of left field.
    It's an "explosion" that I think is supposed to be somewhat of a shock. It shows us what Elsa is like as a person without the fear of harming others (she wasn't aware of the eternal winter at this point). However, because she is basically banishing herself for the sake of others and is trying to cope with that grim reality, she also attempted to let go of all of her concerns--this is Elsa without fear but also without love. Of course, underneath that she still cared as much as ever, which is why she intended to stay banished for good, but she was caught up in the moment of finally being able to be herself in many ways. The scene shows us how her magic (which can represent talents or anything about a person) can be beautiful and constructive when she's not afraid of it, and how vivacious a person she really is when she is not being repressed for the sake of others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coheteboy View Post
    Maybe she should have sung about wanting to let go before it actually happened? The song comes too late and serves the forced script, rather than the needs of her character.
    Maybe you have something like "When Will My Life Begin" from Tangled in mind here, but that was necessary because Rapunzel, due to the requirements of that story, was not being completely, crushingly repressed like Elsa was. Rapunzel felt love and felt loved, and was content to a significant, if ultimately inadequate, degree. She had to show us from the beginning why that tower could not contain her spirit. While she shares some similarities with Elsa in being burdened with magical powers and parent-induced fear, Elsa's plight was far more extreme--she feared and completely repressed herself. Her magic was no longer a gift at this point, but a terrible curse that hurts rather than heals people, and she had almost killed her sister. Earlier we had a glimpse of what she was like before the accident, and this in combination with the apparent totality of the outward change of her as a person and her hopelessness was enough. She didn't need to sing about her dreams and hopes--she couldn't be herself at all and had no hope, only concern for others and a sense of duty. And then her parents died, leaving her truly alone (except for Anna, whom she was too afraid to harm with her powers).

    I felt deeply for Elsa's plight from the moment she was separated from Anna, and especially when she begged her parents not to touch her. Anna's song "Do You Want To Build a Snowman" speaks for both of them and was necessary to show what Anna was going through, but Elsa's plight was even sadder and another song would have been redundant. Instead she mostly speaks indirectly through images and later Olaf. This helps keep Anna's perspective the main perspective of the movie, as intended. Most people, it seems, pay more attention to Elsa (per screen time) and readily understand what she's going through, as it is. "Let It Go" was simply the explosive outburst of almost everything that Elsa had been holding in (although her love is saved for the end of the movie), giving us a sense of her as an adult.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coheteboy View Post
    I wish her parents died on a quest to find a cure for her, making Elsa even more guilt-ridden.
    I find the pathos of her plight extremely moving as it is, with her repression (a living death) and guilt for hurting Anna. What her parents should have done was consult with the "love experts" as often as needed to find a better way to deal with Elsa's fear than repressing her as a person. This is a classic preventable tragedy (such things happen in real life, too, so it's not necessarily contrived here), and I felt very sad for Elsa, who was only a child when this all started. I felt sad for Anna, too, although Elsa's burden was heavier.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coheteboy View Post
    I wish she ran away because she couldn't take it anymore… not because she didn't want to "hurt" anyone.
    That would have been selfish (albeit understandable), and Elsa was not selfish in the least. She is a very loving person (much like her sister Anna) who as far as she was aware could not give and accept love in a positive way, only by repressing herself and then banishing herself to a life of utter isolation in order to protect others (sacrificing her own life might have been a consideration, but nobody knew whether that would end the eternal winter--even Hans didn't want to do that until he had no other option but to try and find out). It would have been different if Elsa were really "cold" inside and didn't care as much, but because she did she tried to fulfill her duties to family and country as the crown princess. When that didn't work out due to another accident, then she could finally justify banishing herself, letting out her frustration, and unleashing her powers to learn more about herself after a lifetime of repression.

    You seem to want a different character, but to the filmmakers that would have been more like the Beast and his need for redemption. Elsa needed to be freed from her own fear, but in this story it is Anna--the one who was not cursed--who must be redeemed by learning the meaning of true love. It was something she had all along (much like how the Beast was capable of truly loving others), but she had to prove that she understood it through action. This ties in metaphorically with her heart becoming frozen physically due to Elsa's magic, as well as Elsa's becoming "frozen" from repression--their relationship was being destroyed by conflict, and only an act of true love (Anna's redemption) could save, well, everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coheteboy View Post
    "oh whoops, did i do that? i can't help you" is what Elsa is. Not that great of a character. I don't mind flaws in character but when they lack motivation, it's disappointing.
    I see a lot more in Elsa than that, even when I watched the movie for the very first time. She is flawed like all of us, as is Anna, but she does have motivations that seem as clear as day to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coheteboy View Post
    Nobody changes by the end of the movie. Elsa learns control but that's it. Everyone else is the same.
    Elsa overcame her irrational fear of touching others when she was able to physically embrace Anna without fear, and learned how to express love in a positive way. This may not seem like much to some, but for her it is utterly life-changing--she is now free, and we get to see a bit of her true, whole self at the end of the movie. She's just what I thought she would be without the crippling fear (based on her care for others) that was put into her as a child--a warm, confident, vivacious woman who is finally able to master her "powers" (subject to interpretation) by overcoming her fear of them and herself.

    Anna learned the meaning of true love and showed us what it means, while also learning what true love is not. I don't think she'll be making the same mistakes again (if, say, she and Kristoff don't eventually end up together). She still has some of her childlike innocence, but it has been tempered by life experience. The manner in which she was raised, which was to be ignorant of danger, serves as a lesson for parents, in addition to the lesson about not repressing your children (as was done with Elsa). Fortunately Anna lived to learn, and managed to dispel her naivete regarding people and the danger they can represent.

    I think if there were one thing the movie should have made more clear or explicit it would be that Anna came to understand why Elsa treated her the "cold" way that she did. The trolls helped Anna understand Elsa's actions with regard to fear a little bit during "Fixer Upper," but I think that Anna needs to show us that she understands that Elsa shunned her because she loved her. I'm not a believer in pure unconditional love, and nothing in this movie is absolute--virtually everything is tempered and nuanced by its opposite, and so should be Anna's love for Elsa, which matches the metaphor of her heart physically freezing. Her love for Hans wasn't unconditional, so why should it be for anybody else? Hans told Anna basically that nobody loved her (and on top of that Elsa is more desirable than her). Anna had to overcome all of this to sacrifice herself for Elsa, and in my mind at least, she must have come to understand that Elsa loved and sacrificed for her, but it's not actually shown in the movie, so it's only my interpretation of various factors (set up but not explicitly paid off).

    Overall, the story seems rather subtle, deft, nuanced, and sophisticated to me, in addition to very dramatic and moving. I personally haven't found an animated feature this involving since Beauty and the Beast, and I love or really like almost all of the ones from Walt Disney Animation Studios and Pixar. Even the humor in Frozen is somewhat subtle most of the time, but very effective and less intrusive as a result. The movie isn't perfect (none that I've ever seen is), but there is more than one way to tell a story (this one has less of a discernible, predictable structure and feels more like real life as a result), and I think that this one is fantastically good.
    Last edited by Robert Cook; 12-28-2013 at 12:04 AM.

  10. #55

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    Re: Frozen Reviews and Thoughts

    Thanks for taking the time to write that all out. While it doesn't change my mind in what I wanted for the story, it at least helps me understand how others would feel so satisfied with the picture while I didn't.

    I suppose that me personally, still wanted Elsa to be more of a villain, even accidentally and by a result of what she had to experience (or lack of experience) growing up. I don't mind if she ran away by being selfish… because you CAN still be selfish but a loving person. I agree, it would be a complex storyline to handle but I think it would pay off better in the end.

    Elsa at the end was shocked that Anna would risk her life for her. And to me, it was never a shock. Anna always loved Elsa and showed that she did. I think it would be more of a shock if Elsa was a little more selfish and causing everything to freeze over and yet, Anna still proves her love, melting Elsa's figurative frozen heart in the process.

    In a small way, Frozen is much like Brave in which something needed mending and they were under a certain time crunch. Brave though had more of that emotional weight that I wanted in Frozen.


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    Re: Frozen Reviews and Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Coheteboy View Post
    I suppose that me personally, still wanted Elsa to be more of a villain, even accidentally and by a result of what she had to experience (or lack of experience) growing up.
    This was apparently part of the story (at least to some degree) that Chris Buck had pitched to get the project restarted once again. The changes that were made to Elsa later on were reportedly embraced by both directors (Jennifer Lee having joined the project part of the way through) and John Lasseter, who all thought that Elsa would be more interesting as a fully sympathetic character; I believe the idea was originally brought up by one of the story artists in response to something they sensed in "Let It Go." Obviously not everybody agrees with this decision, but many people do.

    For me this change adds a significant amount of pathos to the story, as well as nuance to the story and the character. It's also different from what people would normally expect or have seen before from Disney or Pixar, and since the story's structure supported it, the filmmakers went for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coheteboy View Post
    I don't mind if she ran away by being selfish… because you CAN still be selfish but a loving person. I agree, it would be a complex storyline to handle but I think it would pay off better in the end.
    Well, "Let It Go" was Elsa being selfish, for once, and quite understandably so, considering all she had been through and what she had suffered from. The difference is that she is internally conflicted now rather than resolutely in a more direct conflict with Anna and everybody else. The way the story was being developed before put a lot of pettiness into Elsa (and Anna, I think), and while I suppose that could have been made to work, we've seen things akin to this before in Beauty and the Beast and Brave (and others such as Toy Story and Brother Bear).

    Quote Originally Posted by Coheteboy View Post
    Elsa at the end was shocked that Anna would risk her life for her. And to me, it was never a shock.
    I'm not so sure that Elsa was shocked so much as overcome with emotion. To the degree that she was surprised, it was because Elsa wasn't convinced before then that Anna truly loved her since Anna did not even know what true love is. At the coronation ball, Anna had told her that what she had with Hans was true love, and Elsa asked "What do you know about true love?" Elsa was simultaneously questioning Anna and feeling the pain of her own sacrifice (not a completely selfless thing to feel, but Elsa is only human), and Anna's counter-accusation that Elsa knew less than her must have stung. It also told Elsa that maybe Anna did not love her so much anymore because of how she had been treated. Elsa must have known that Anna still cared about her when Anna showed up at her ice palace, but to sacrifice herself like Anna did, especially after getting mortally wounded in the heart and chased from the ice palace, is still a big leap. Elsa would have understood if Anna didn't love her enough to do this anymore, so she was pleasantly surprised at how much Anna now understood, as well as the depth of her love.

    Of course the audience sees and knows more than either sister, so we really have to get into their heads to understand what they're feeling and why. This is not entirely unlike how Rapunzel had believed that Eugene had conned her Hans-style--we know that he didn't, but what else was she to believe at the time? Of course this example is more obvious and concrete, while Elsa's views of Anna and vice versa must be pieced together and are more subject to interpretation. It's a different style, and I happen to like it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coheteboy View Post
    Anna always loved Elsa and showed that she did.
    From the audience's point of view, yes, but from Elsa's point of view--including what she thought Anna might have thought and felt about her--not necessarily to the point where self-sacrifice of such a serious nature would be expected.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coheteboy View Post
    I think it would be more of a shock if Elsa was a little more selfish and causing everything to freeze over and yet, Anna still proves her love, melting Elsa's figurative frozen heart in the process.
    This would be more like the original fairy tale, and in my view would be too straightforward for the intended themes and storytelling style of Frozen. It would be more dramatic in a certain way that we get with Beauty and the Beast, for example, with a character who is cursed and behaving selfishly learning how to truly and selflessly love another person, but that story's (Disney's version specifically) structure is better suited for it. Belle doesn't save the Beast by giving him unconditional love for shabby treatment, and I wouldn't want Anna to do that with Elsa any more than I'd want her to do that with Hans. Anna has to truly understand for Elsa before she can sacrifice herself, which is why I think it is better overall to have Elsa be a sympathetic heroine instead of a villain (of sorts). In this story, it is Anna who must learn what true love is, not Elsa.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coheteboy View Post
    In a small way, Frozen is much like Brave in which something needed mending and they were under a certain time crunch.
    There is a basic similarity in trying to achieve understanding and reconciliation between family members, definitely. The two movies go about this in very different ways, though. By the way, different tastes are in play here, but I thought that Brave, like most of Pixar's movies (and a few of Disney's), was a bit too "on the nose" about the points it was trying to make--I much prefer a lighter touch on such matters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coheteboy View Post
    Brave though had more of that emotional weight that I wanted in Frozen.
    Just to show you how differently individuals can perceive movies, Brave had very little emotional weight for me (frankly I didn't feel much for Merida), while Frozen touched me deeply (for a movie). Different strokes, I guess.
    Last edited by Robert Cook; 12-28-2013 at 08:22 AM.

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    Re: Frozen Reviews and Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by pineapplewhipaddict View Post
    The point is that true love's kiss is an act. An act of true love is what could save Anna, hence why Elsa's hug - something that Elsa had wanted to do for 15-20 years and had been unable to do (in fact, I'm certain that since the accident Elsa had since never touched her sister at all for fear of harming her). Elsa had always loved Anna, but she was never able to show it. Just like she had to conceal her powers from the rest of the world, she had to conceal her love for Anna by shutting her out to protect her.
    Elsa's hug isn't what saved Anna from the curse of the Frozen Heart. It was Anna's act of true love for her sister that saved her. (Anna throwing herself in front of Elsa)

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    Re: Frozen Reviews and Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfire View Post
    Elsa's hug isn't what saved Anna from the curse of the Frozen Heart. It was Anna's act of true love for her sister that saved her. (Anna throwing herself in front of Elsa)
    I agree.

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    Re: Frozen Reviews and Thoughts

    I was expecting a "romp" with snowmen and comedy.(advertising faked me out) I totally was caught off guard by the story which was decent. Kept my attention at least. If felt a little bit like a "broadway play" on film to me...get ready for the Broadway Play I guess. - Music was just "meh" in my opinion. Overall I would give it a 6 out of 10.
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    Re: Frozen Reviews and Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfire View Post
    Elsa's hug isn't what saved Anna from the curse of the Frozen Heart. It was Anna's act of true love for her sister that saved her. (Anna throwing herself in front of Elsa)
    The characters themselves as well as most of the audience were mistaken in assuming that somebody else had to save Anna (with a kiss) and that it would involve anybody besides Elsa. Anna had to save herself by proving that she understood true love, and she had to do it with Elsa, who had accidentally put a deadly spell on Anna (a physical metaphor for her cold treatment of Anna as well as Anna's reaction to it) and given her every outward reason not to love her. The latter was completely unintended by Elsa, of course, who has always loved and sacrificed for Anna, and she would have understood for Anna (probably already thought that Anna didn't love her anymore by now), but would Anna understand for her? The answer, of course, was yes, Anna finally, really understood, and in proving it through action by sacrificing herself she saved herself and "broke the ice" in their relationship. If you think about it, it could never have been any other way--a true love's kiss from Kristoff, even if it were genuine, would have been irrelevant to Anna's freezing heart.

    Anna also helped save Elsa, kind of by accident, by giving her a chance to express her love, even though it was through grief, and touch and hug her physically without fear. Whether Elsa's outpouring of love helped cure Anna, as Anna did in fact physically freeze to death due to the timing of the events, is subject to individual interpretation, but the actual act of true love was done by Anna, and that should be sufficient according to the stated rules of the story--Anna proved that she still truly loved Elsa, and we all (including Anna now) knew that Elsa always truly loved her.

    By the way, although Anna's act of true love was necessary for Elsa's salvation, Elsa saved herself, too, by overcoming her fear, and she saved everybody else by figuring out how to end the eternal winter, now that she had the right "tools" and mindset, namely the ability to express her love in a positive way (in combination with her magic). So both Anna and Elsa are heroines who saved themselves and everybody else from the faceless "villains" of this story.
    Last edited by Robert Cook; 12-29-2013 at 05:11 PM.

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