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  1. #1

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    Why has WDW become SO expensive?!

    Little bit of a rant here, but follow me on this one. I'd like to see some input from the "old-timers" who have been going to WDW for decades as I have.

    Long-time MiceChat Lurker here, and occasional post-er. Let me start off by saying that I'm an east coast Disney fan, and I've been taking trips to WDW since 1972. I've been to Anaheim/Disneyland 4 times (most recenly during the 50th Celebration, and I love the original Disney park!) I'm also a DVC member, and am planning an extended family getaway later this year. I've also attended conferences at the Disney Resort Hotels for several years. My wife and I even splurged one year for our probably one-and-only-ever dinner at Victoria and Albert's for our Anniversary. So, I'm quite familiar with the "cost" of doing Disney.

    Having been a regular visitor since 1972, I have seen all the trends and changes over the years. Disney was always a more exclusive, upscale trip, and there was a small premium for tickets, food, and souvenirs while in/around the Magic Kingdom, and later EPCOT. But things weren't OUTRAGEOUSLY expensive. For example, a soda or hamburger in the park may be 25-50% more than you would pay at your local fast food restaurant, but NOT twice as much!

    A WDW Cast Membert informed me that they were told "Disney doesn't really make money off of admission tickets." Which, in some accountant's ledger, is probably made to appear true. By the time you factor ancillary costs of ticket printing and distribution, ticket booth staffing, Gate staffing and upkeep, fixing those electronic finger scanners, having security full-time at the Gate, the discounts on multi-day tickets/Florida Resident/DVC/Annual Passholder/AAA discounts - well, you get the picture. And the fact that Disney is letting people in for free on their birthday lets us know that the REAL profit comes from overpriced Disney plush, CDs, DVDs, T-shirts, and concessions. But I don't buy that premise COMPLETELY, otherwise we wouldn't see 3 to 20 dollar ticket price hikes EVERY AUGUST.

    Disney's Argument: "But you have access to DOZENS of attractions and shows, stores, parades, and more, for the entire day, for one price (~ $85 U.S. with tax)... why, that's less than a DOLLAR per experience! Where else can you find that much entertainment for so little?! And besides, with a multi-day ticket or Seasonal/Annual pass, the cost can be less than a dollar per DAY!"

    My Response #1: "Yes, but when can ANYONE ever do EVERYTHING at The Magic Kingsom/EPCOT in one day? (Animal Kingdom,/Hollywood Studios, it's technically possible). Only if there are NO crowds, minimal attraction line wait times, the Park is open late (remember, you don't have a full 24 hours, more like 12-16 hours under the best of circumstances), you take advantage of extra Magic Hours, and you had NO small children to drag around, and you maximized FastPass at every E-ticket ride, could you possibly fit in EVERY attraction and store and show and meet-and-greet and parade and music performance into one day, and therefore really "feel" like you got your money's worth out of a ticket. Sounds exhausting, not really a relaxing vacation. And, unless I'm a Central Florida local, I CAN'T go to the parks every day. Not as long as I have a job and family to support. My brother lived across the highway in Celebration, and HE certainly couldn't make it every day!"

    My Response #2: Just 30 minutes away, I can get a 14 day pass to Sea World/Aquatica/Universal Studios/Islands of adventure for $220, less than a WDW 3 day pass.

    Disney's Argument: "Disney is a premium brand. Like Lexus, Mercedes, Prada, Gucci,etc... you pay more for the quality (perceived or real), and you have a level of expectation for that premium price."

    My Response: "Yes, of course. WDW will always be more expensive than the Chuck-E-Cheese, or Dave and Busters, or local Carnival, or County Fair. No one is putting a gun to my head to go to WDW. I come because I want to."

    Disney's Argument: "Like you said- no one is putting a gun to your head."

    My Response: "Um, yeah, I just said that. But these prices keep a fair amount of visitors away from the parks, who simply can't afford to go. I've talked to children and adults over the years who would give anything to take just one trip to WDW, but their family simply can't afford admission, $3 Cokes, $8 hamburges, $25 T-shirts, $12 parking, let alone travel and lodging expenses."

    ================================================== =====

    ? POSSIBLE SOLUTION ?

    I think WDW should seriously consider going back to an individual ticket per attraction system, but update it for the 21st century. Pay a nominal fee to get into the parks, and then pay for the attractions you use. I know there were staffing issues and costs in the past with selling and claiming tickets, but I STILL see Cast members in the lines to observe and collect Fast Pass tickets. What would the difference be now? Don't you think Disney would stand to make MORE money if you could get into the park for say $20, buy souvenirs and food, and then pay for individual rides?

    Picture this: Your ticket is a plastic debit card, that you load with $$ when you first enter. $20 to get the card for entrance that day, but then you load it with money in increments of $5 or $10 (or call it "points" if you want, so no-one really sees that they just paid $8.50 to ride the Haunted Mansion and $9 for Big Thunder). Have those fast scanners at the ride entrance, like they do at drive through windows and convenience stores, where you wave your card over the sensor, and it automatically deducts points from your card, and shows you how many remaining points you have. Not enough points? Scatter a few ATM-like charging stations around the parks that take cash or credit card to re-charge your Disney Debit Card. The technology has existed and been used in the real world for years. And there could still be free attractions (Carousel of Progress, for example).

    You could also STILL pay for an unlimited "all you can ride" pass that lets you on everything, Fast Pass included for all attractions with this feature. This is sort-of done now with Extra Magic Hours at night. People in the park are no longer chased out - they just can't get on the attractions after regular hours without a Disney Hotel ID. But they are still encouraged to spend $$ on food and souvenirs.

    Now, there would certainly be down sides as well. What if the scanner goes down at 8:00 AM on the new and improved Space Mountain? Can anyone get on the ride until the scanner is fixed? Well, yes. In that case, you let EVERYONE on for free, until the scanner is fixed/replaced, or you close the ride until it has been resolved.

    ================================================== =====

    OK, it's still a thought in process, and it's not perfect... but I think Walt himself would be first to try to make his special magic available to the most people he could, without procing so many out of the market.

    Your Thoughts??!!
    Last edited by chris2fett; 08-09-2009 at 04:12 PM.

  2. #2

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    Re: Why has WDW become SO expensive?!

    My thoughts are at today's prices, while they are overpriced, it would be a bank killer if the ticket system was brought back. When Tokyo killed theirs at the early 00s, the cost of an E-Ticket like Splash was $4.50. So yeah, you could do a cheaper day and only have to pay for what you ride. But then when you have a light attendance day, when as you say you can do more rides, you'd have to pay more money.

    And then we'd see a shift...more guests going towards the C & D tickets than E-Tickets. Then suddenly, not only are the things like Stitch and MILF cheaper to build than things like Splash or HM, more guests ride them, so they are better (Imagine the PR spin on that...say nothing about how the price differences). And then imagine when those prices start to go up like the main ticket prices.

    It's one thing to do it at Knobles (with an option for an all day pass). It is another thing to try to pull it off at Disney. People can stomach $3 for a rollercoaster they can see on a nice Friday night date. But the general public doesn't understand how to classify something like the Haunted Mansion. Do you really see them paying $8 a person for it?

    I don't agree with ticket prices continuing to rise, but the ticket books are not the answer.

  3. #3

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    Re: Why has WDW become SO expensive?!

    Funny, the wife and I were just talking about something like this. I think that Disney should get rid of the park hopper "option" and have an all park inclusive ticket for the same price. I think that this would invite more people to stay at the parks longer. If people are going to stay in the parks longer what will they need? Yep... food. Lost revenue could be made up by the increase in food sales, not an increase in food price mind you.
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  4. #4

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    Re: Why has WDW become SO expensive?!

    I think they could lower the ticket prices a little if they got rid of the "free" dining.

  5. #5

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    Re: Why has WDW become SO expensive?!

    I have given much thought to the pricing of WDW vacations. We are DVC members simply due to the fact that we 'have' to stay on property so the magic doesn't stop at the turnstile on the way out. However my biggest complaint about WDW is the price of lodging. I travel 'A LOT' for business and I haves stayed at some of the nicest hotels and have stayed at some that were just OK.

    Yes - there is a Disney Resort Hotel to fit almost any budget - however - when you look at the cost of WDW hotels they are WAY off base when compared to much nicer hotels. I wouldn't have a problem paying $400.00+ per night (take a look at tripadvisor.com) if the service level was there - the bedspreads weren't made of polyester - and the rooms were truly as luxurious as REAL 5 star hotels in the $400.00 price range. Let's get real - what do you expect for $400.00 a night - plush linens - top notch furnishings - and luxury bathrooms. For $400.00 a night there should be an upgraded bathroom. If you pay $520+ for a club level room - there should be more than a service level upgrade - there should be a room upgrade - a view upgrade - and a basic amenities/feature upgrade.

    In short - Disney hotels are NOT up to par for what you pay. Yes - I understand there is a monorail at your doorstep - I understand that you are just a few minutes away from all four parks - but what I don't understand is the premium price for minimum amenities.

    As far as the park tickets - I agree that the park hopper should be standard. Other parks charge for the use of a FastPass type system - I think that could be an opportunity for an 'up charge' on admission. A basic admission or a VIP admission - or a park only admission. There is a ton of stuff to see at WDW without ever getting in line to see an attraction.

    However - putting it all in perspective - at the end of the day I really enjoy not handing out cash every time I turn around. We recently went a vacation that wasn't in Florida - I didn't go willingly - but eh - I went anyway. I felt like all I got done on vacation was getting my wallet out - and putting it away. The ability to literally walk into any WDW park with just my Key to the World card - use it for the dining plan - use it for room charges - and then use it to get back into my room at the end of the day is worth it!

    WDW really can be an all inclusive resort - I think Disney just needs to expand the spectrum of what is available to resort guests. The prices for add on features (bike rental - boat rental - etc) should be greatly discounted.

    We have just purchased Annual Passes that we will use at least three times from December 2009 - December 2010 - the more you visit - naturally the better value you get - however - the Annual Passes were an investment unto themselves. Once again - I think the ticketing options do not fit today's families. Have you taken a look at the no expiration option? Let's talk about WAY over priced!!!!! It's crazy! The only way I can see that makes sense is if I want to buy tickets to use in 2060 (when Bay Lake Tower Contracts Expire) THEN and only THEN could I say that I got a really great bargain on the no expiration tickets! HAHA

  6. #6

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    Re: Why has WDW become SO expensive?!

    The only part of Disney I find crazy over priced is food. I think a lot of that is to justify the dining plans. They should do away with the DDP as it stands and return it to a premium experience like it was back in the 80s.

    The hotels aren't that bad cost wise... but I certainly agree that luxury at Disney is no where near luxury elsewhere anymore. Disney hotels used to offer leading edge stuff (first places I ever saw automated faucets, etc) but now it pretty much is just like a Holiday Inn. Things like we saw in the Dream Suite should be more common place in the Deluxe level hotels if you want to charge those prices.
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  7. #7

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    Re: Why has WDW become SO expensive?!

    the simple answer is because people will pay it, thats why its so expsensive
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  8. #8

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    Re: Why has WDW become SO expensive?!

    Yeah - I forgot to mention the food.

    We have had some really great dining experiences and some really bad dining experiences. However - overall - I don't find the quality of the food at 'sit down' service meals up to 'gourmet' standards. I know that Disney employs chefs - however the actual quality of the raw ingredients really is not at all what you would find at a chain establishment at the local strip mall (Applebees - TGI Fridays - Olive Garden Etc...) There are VERY few counter service meals I have had that have been memorable.

    The Concourse Steakhouse was the best meal my wife and I have ever had on Disney property and the best steak I think I have ever had. But the concourse has now fallen by the wayside.

    The Chicken Fingers - Chicken Nugget - French Fry - Cheeseburger - Pizza monster has taken over. I realize that these are all quick service foods - but do you think they could change it up a little?

    It seems as though Disney has really centralized a lot of their food preparation. Try the ribs at Spirit of Aloha, Whispering Canyon Cafe, and Cosmic Rays and see if you can tell a difference. I really don't think there is a difference! I think they are all prepared in the same place and then 'trucked' to different locations. I think the same could be said for much of the food found around 'the World'.

    Having only been to Disney once as a child in 1985 and then not another trip till 2006 - I can't say anything about the food at Disney in the 80's.
    However I can say that I could only produce a very short list of establishments that I would frequent if they were only a few blocks away from my home - so why would I eat someplace when I'm on vacation that I wouldn't eat at home.

    I think the worst meal so far was at the Coral Reef. I have eaten then two times the first time was amazing! The second time they tried to serve my sister in law pork cooked to medium rare (if that) TWO time. She sent it back once - and then blew up on the manager the second time around. She is a nurse and takes the notes on menus very seriously about consuming raw or undercooked meat/poultry products. Really - it is dangerous - especially Pork!

    So take it or leave it - but the quality of the food just isn't as high as what the price suggests it should be!

  9. #9

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    Re: Why has WDW become SO expensive?!

    First off let me say I'm so glad the OP started this thread because I didn't want to bring my viewpoints into my trip report. So I'll post them here.

    On Friday my BF surprised me with a 2 night stay at the Polynesian. We bought his AP, we settled into the room and went, "This is it?" As with the original poster I too have stayed in 5 star resorts in multiple areas of the country and when you add in what we paid for the privilege it just wasn't adding up for us. Some of my observations from this weekend....

    1. Spontaneous dining has been lost to the Dining Plan people. My BF and I dropped off my daughter at the Neverland Club so we could go have dinner together. We not only couldn't find somewhere to eat, it took us 1 of the 2 hours we had (the time frame for my daughter at the dinner club for children) just to get to a place that would take us. Let me explain. We went downstairs to the concierge, asked if there was anything open nearby. We were told that everything was completely booked but to ask to be put on a waiting list for the luau or we could wait 2.5 HOURS to get into O'hana. Well, we only had 2 hours so what about another location? We were told that Trail's End at the Wilderness Lodge had an opening but they couldn't book it for us because when it's within a certain time frame you just show up and get it. So instead of taking the car (our mistake admittedly), we thought it would be fun to take the monorail, we ended up just missing the boat and opted for the bus only to discover that Trail's End is not at Wilderness Lodge, it's at Ft. Wilderness. I had never eaten at Trail's End, I had no idea where it was or what they served truly. I'd love to say I've eaten everywhere in the World but I haven't. Sadly, because of misinformation we were sitting at the wrong hotel and still looking to grab something to eat. So instead of taking the last hour we had used to catch the boat or bus to the MK and then hop the monorail we ended up spending $3.75 for a cab back to the Poly. That's right, we could have walked up the street to the Wilderness Lodge by foot faster than WDW transportation got us there. However, that's another issue that could be discussed in its own thread so I won't go further here.

    2. When you look at the amenities that the Deluxe resort provide for the price you pay and compare them to hotels off site the difference is quite noticeable. Some things off the top of my head that the Poly did not have (although some other Deluxe locations do that charge less for the room I might add)
    a. No Free Internet
    b. No Fitness Room
    c. No Business Center
    d. No Conteniental Breakfast (Not uncommon offsite)
    I would like to add that the plumbing in our room was horrendous but as that can just be a room specific issue, I won't list it as an overall concern as I realize the Poly is an older resort.

    Sure we had the monorail right there, it was really great to catch a ride back to the room after spending a long day at the park but other than a great location I just couldn't see what we were spending so much money on.


    3. The Food - When you pay for something, at least most people (I would think) would want to at least get the value of their money. We don't mind spending more as long as the quality is there or we feel we have gotten value out of our purchase. There were so many places that we ate this weekend, Liberty Tree Tavern, Rose and Crown or even some counter service where the higher inflated prices gave us unseasoned, small portioned, flavorless and in some cases dry food.

    To expand on one example - My daughter and I went to MK Friday night to eat and she asked if we could try for a character meal. We had settled on Liberty Tree Tavern and I had forgotten that they no longer have characters there. No problem, we ate there anyway, I figured I'll just take her to Toontown. What I couldn't get past was they were still charging the same price they used to for a character meal without any characters and the food wasn't that good at all. The meats were dry and the salad was so drenched in dressing that we just couldn't eat it. (Again, could be situational but still worth mentioning)

    I want you to understand that we had a great time this weekend, we swam in the pool, we enjoyed the parks and I still enjoyed Disney in all it's splendor but I left this weekend so much sadder than I've ever been. Those little magical moments have given way to the bottom line.

    Most people here know me, they know I'm a positive, look on the bright side kind of person (Heck I've been called Pollyanna before) but my heart literally broke this weekend. I don't know how large families can justify the expense of going to WDW anymore?

    That might explain why when I called that same day there were not only rooms available at multiple resorts, but I also got in on a FL resident discount. That's unheard of!!!

    So while I still have a year left on my AP, I will still go once a month like I always do (for the day only), but I just don't think I'll be renewing our passes next year. I can't ignore it now and if management continues to keep the mindset that they are the "happiest place on Earth and are untouchable" I have a feeling (if they aren't already seeing the decline) that others will pick up on it as well and the bookings will just stop.

    I've always been a fan but I've always put myself outside the die hard range for the simple reason is I've never cared much for who is in upper management, how many people attend on any given day or how much trash is collecting on the side of the street. While I do consider myself more knowledgeable than the average guest I do not know how every attraction works (nor do I want to) and to be frank I have no idea who anyone but Walt Disney is on any of the windows on Main Street. Not that I'm not interested in that information but I don't seek it, because I go for a different reason.

    I go because it's magical, it's multiple worlds of culture, experience, fun, laughter, and everything that should be good about the world. Anyone who posts here knows what I'm talking about, there isn't a name for it, it's a feeling, it's so many things and defined differently for every person that you ask.

    I will say that given everything else the majority of your CM's are still amazing, wonderful people who try their hardest to make sure that everyone leaves or arrives with a smile.

    I grew up on Disney, WDW is and will always be my childhood home, I relish seeing my daughter's eyes light up the first time they meet their favorite character or how my youngest daughter still clings so tight to me as we are about to take that drop on Pirates.

    But it's lost something and I don't know if it's the people who are going or the people in charge of the parks that are the reason for this change? I wouldn't even argue that its partly I'm getting older and maybe my tastes are changing but Disney has always appealed to people of all ages and I'm just seeing that anymore.

  10. #10

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    Re: Why has WDW become SO expensive?!

    Summer is absolutely right in that the loss of the variety in food choices and whatnot is linked directly to the dining plan
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    Re: Why has WDW become SO expensive?!

    These pricing schemes really only make sense to an Academic, who is not subject to the rules they pass.

    Picture this: let's say that JC Penney has decreased customers, and therefore decreased sales, because of a bad economy. So their accountants decide to RAISE prices, in order to make more $$ from the sales they DO make. Crazy, right? Would you shop there? If you did, wouldn't you be VERY careful about what you bought?

    But that is exactly what Disney Management is doing. Oh, I'm sure it can be JUSTIFIED on some ledger, on some spreadsheet, at some presentation, where actual DOLLARS become replaced with percentages.

    I hate to say it, and not to be political, but that's what we are seeing many local, state governments (including the fed.) doing.

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    Re: Why has WDW become SO expensive?!

    Quote Originally Posted by SummerInFL View Post
    There were so many places that we ate this weekend, Liberty Tree Tavern, Rose and Crown or even some counter service where the higher inflated prices gave us unseasoned, small portioned, flavorless and in some cases dry food.
    I also read Summer's trip report and when I saw her pic of the fish n chips she got there, I thought to myself ... oh no, poor Summer paid all that money for THAT?

    Harry Ramsden's Fish & Chips - Battered fresh Cod served with English Chips $15.99

    The same thing at the counter service place next door ...

    Fish & Chips - 2 strips of fish served with chips $7.99

    Even that is overpriced!

    Sorry Disney ... but you are DEFINITELY a rip-off sometimes.


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    Re: Why has WDW become SO expensive?!

    Quote Originally Posted by chris2fett View Post
    Picture this: let's say that JC Penney has decreased customers, and therefore decreased sales, because of a bad economy. So their accountants decide to RAISE prices, in order to make more $$ from the sales they DO make. Crazy, right? Would you shop there? If you did, wouldn't you be VERY careful about what you bought?
    It's no different then offering attractive sale prices on some goods to bring people into the store and charge a higher mark-up on other items in the store they are likely to buy once there.

    This is done in retail and convenience shops all the time and is standard practice.

    Just because SOME things are cheap, doesn't mean they all are. Disney is offering discounts up front on many things, and raising prices on others.
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    Re: Why has WDW become SO expensive?!

    Very nice post Summer. I feel a lot of the same things; especially in regard to the DDP. I takes all of the sponaneity out of dining for not only the vacationers but also for the locals. Before the DDP, one could generally always find some sit-down dining options available as a "walk-in" at any of the parks. No more. It's 2:00 pm as I'm typing this and I have no idea at this point what I want for dinner tonight, let alone knowing weeks to months in advance. Your also right about the marginal food quality at very high prices. I can't comment on the on-property hotels as I have never stayed in one. Knowing the prices for them, however, I can't imagine considering the "Disney Experience" is worth what they charge. Before I moved within 45 mins of WDW, I always stayed off property as I felt they offered better value.
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    Re: Why has WDW become SO expensive?!

    I've been saying the same for the DDP since it started, and I haven't used it yet. It's also the reason I prefer the Wilderness Lodge or moderate hotels vs other Deluxe hotels; the amenities don't necessarily justify the price. It's all about the location you're paying for - nothing else.
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