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  1. #16

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    Re: Sad state of the Classics!

    I did notice that the average WDW guest will rave and applaud about anything - almost to a laughable level - which tells me that, wherever they're from, they're just not used to this kind of atmosphere/entertainment/technology. Coming from a weekly DL regular, not to mention a SoCal native, it's rather disconcerting, though, to see that any parade, show or attraction can be a relative "hit" at WDW whereas it might be laughed at on either of the coasts.

  2. #17

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    Re: Sad state of the Classics!

    Quote Originally Posted by WDW1974
    ....Hell, how many WDW visitors have even set foot in the much-superior original Disneyland?

    They simply don't have reference points for comparison. I'm sure if you compare the MK to any of the local/Six Flags-type of regional parks, the MK must seem amazing, even in its current sorry state....
    I agree with you. I had my first trip to Disneyland this past weekend, and was absolutely blown away by the park.

    It's hard to compare the two since they are both similar, yet very different in their approach, but the cleanliness, gleaming paint, and general atmosphere was superior to what I've come to know at Magic Kingdom.

    MK is the park I grew up with, and one I love dearly, but on several levels I felt Disneyland delivered more entertainment value. Take for one Main Street USA. The shops there are devoted to the merchandise advertised on the facade. The music shop is a music shop (picked up an "on demand" copy of the Elliott Bros "Date Nites at Disneyland" record on CD), the cinema is still a cinema.. the Penny Arcade is mostly a penny arcade...

    The park was spotlessly clean. I pointed out to TDLFan earlier that the one piece of trash I saw on the street was swept up mere seconds after I saw it.

    However, MK is a wonderful park, one I will always love and have the sentimental attachment to. But even in its deteriorated state it still trumps any other theme park in every way. It is a place of wonder and imagination. I can overlook the cracks in the pavement, the peeling paint in places, and rust because it still offers something that nearly every single theme park in this country can not: magic.

    Sure, that may sound cliche, but it's true. MK still offers a wonderful sense of escapism and removal of the outside world.

    I can't wait to see what it would look like if it was allowed to return to the quality that has returned to Disneyland.

  3. #18

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    Re: Sad state of the Classics!

    Has Space Mountain in the MK ever got a full rehab?

    I was on a Space Mountain website and it said that the Disneyland-version
    "Without ripping out the entire track and installing a brand new version, the metal was set to fatigue and might even have broken with riders aboard it. The roller-coaster closed before such a tragedy Happened"

    If the DL version opened in 1977 and the MK version in 1975, wouldn't the WDW version be worse. Looking at the interior it hasn't changed much. I saw pictures of the RCA-sponsored version and FedEx-sponsored version and there isn't much change to the inside but some paint and removal of signs. It looks like the ride should be recieving an entirely new everything.

  4. #19

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    Re: Sad state of the Classics!

    Quote Originally Posted by pancakesaregood
    Has Space Mountain in the MK ever got a full rehab?
    No. The rehabs they have done to MK's Space have been quite minimal.. such as replacing the ride vehicles, or the sets of the post show, or adding TV monitors to the indoor queue when Fedex took over the sponsorship. But me thinks this version of Space, being the first one opened in 74 is the one that needs the most TLC. IMHO...they need to close it and totally rebuild it with new track, effects, show elements and storyline... I mean.. "the *works*". All other versions of Space Mountain truly rock as opposed to WDW's. And...if it was up to me.. I'd replace the dual track with a much longer single track ride and enclose it like the DL version, where it feels darker and effects and projections are better presented. Not to mention...the outdoors need total refurbishing as well.... all you need to do is ride the people mover or the train to see the bad conditions of Space Mt's building up close. Truly a disgrace.

  5. #20

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    Re: Sad state of the Classics!

    But even in its deteriorated state it still trumps any other theme park in every way. It is a place of wonder and imagination. I can overlook the cracks in the pavement, the peeling paint in places, and rust because it still offers something that nearly every single theme park in this country can not: magic.

    Thats what they said about DL when 'THEY' ran it before 'they' fell into 'The Gap'. Please dont give Team Disney ANY ammo w/ comments like that, lest certain mine trains and moon rockets start derailing, tiki maqruees start collapsing, old trees start falling, etc etc.

  6. #21

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    Re: Sad state of the Classics!

    Quote Originally Posted by ron10036
    But even in its deteriorated state it still trumps any other theme park in every way.
    You seem to be contradicting yourself. You were just saying how much cleaner and better-kept Disneyland felt, but now you're saying that WDW is better than every other theme park in every possible way? Those two statements are very incongruous.

    To say that WDW trumps Disneyland or vice versa is a bold and quite subjective statement. The two resorts take very different approaches to Walt Disney's vision. WDW is more about breadth; DL is more about depth. WDW is more about awe and vastness; DL is more about charm and detail. WDW's target audience consists mainly of tourists from all over the world; DL's target audience consists of both tourists and locals who frequent the park. WDW is a descendent of Disneyland that in some ways exceeds its progenitor; Disneyland is THE original theme park and Walt Disney's beautiful brain child.

    It's really not fair to say that one is better than the other, is it? Both resorts have a lot to offer to a wide variety of personalities.


  7. #22

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    Re: Sad state of the Classics!

    Quote Originally Posted by Datameister
    You seem to be contradicting yourself. You were just saying how much cleaner and better-kept Disneyland felt, but now you're saying that WDW is better than every other theme park in every possible way? Those two statements are very incongruous.

    To say that WDW trumps Disneyland or vice versa is a bold and quite subjective statement. The two resorts take very different approaches to Walt Disney's vision. WDW is more about breadth; DL is more about depth. WDW is more about awe and vastness; DL is more about charm and detail. WDW's target audience consists mainly of tourists from all over the world; DL's target audience consists of both tourists and locals who frequent the park. WDW is a descendent of Disneyland that in some ways exceeds its progenitor; Disneyland is THE original theme park and Walt Disney's beautiful brain child.

    It's really not fair to say that one is better than the other, is it? Both resorts have a lot to offer to a wide variety of personalities.
    Nope.. merely saying that Magic Kingdom, even though it is a bit rough around the edges, is still yards better than your local Six Flags. That's something many people on this board seem to forget. All they WANT to see are the flaws... a few cracks.. some paint peeling.. a bit of rust... and forget that they are indeed in a place that is beautiful and magical.

    I see past the flaws in upkeep at MK as overall the park is stiil a glorious place, but when compared to Disneyland, which does gleam, it makes these flaws stand out more.

    Upon my return from Disneyland last week my friends kept asking me to compare the two. It simply cannot be done. WDW and DL are such different places overall. In terms of vacationing I would always choose WDW. It's a mega resort tailor made for vacations that last a long period of time. Disneyland Resort is great for a few days, but nothing more.

    Perhaps the contradiction comes in that BOTH parks put me in the "Disney Zone"... that escapism that these parks can and do provide.. and do so very well.

    In short, it ain't your local Six Flags.

  8. #23

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    Re: Sad state of the Classics!

    Quote Originally Posted by Datameister
    DL's target audience consists of both tourists and locals who frequent the park. WDW is a descendent of Disneyland that in some ways exceeds its progenitor; Disneyland is THE original theme park and Walt Disney's beautiful brain child.
    Disneyland's target audience is the tourists and the SoCals, but lest we not forget, Walt Disney World caters to the Floridians especially hard. There are multitudes of special tickets for the residents of WDW's home state.

    As Disneyland was Walt's brain child, there also was a second. Now this park was not the Magic Kingdom, in fact, it wasn't even a park. But Epcot has an extravagent amount of detail and upkeep.
    Future World is a tad outdated and could use a few cosmetic changes, but World Showcase is some of the best work Disney has ever made. The attractions are a little outdated, but the exteriors and interiors are exquisite.

    The Magic Kingdom is a very nice park. If it were kept to the standards that Disneyland is kept, it would surpass Disneyland in a quality experience. The classic attractions POTC, HM, and Space Mountain may never be on par with their California sisters, but the park itself is of a very nice design. Some of the planning is wonderful; the views from Splash Mountain, the detail in Fantasyland, etc. The castle is absolutely beautiful, and some of the planning for that is wonderous. But there are some managerial flaws. Some of the impressive and attractive little nooks and crannies have been reallocated to Smoking areas, which I find repulsive.

    Lately I have noticed painting crews and maintenance around the park. Hopefully with the holidays approaching, they will start to clean the place up. Really, the problem is with the management. If they only realized how big of a difference it could make if they really tried to clean the place up. I honestly think that if they took some time to make it nicer than any other park in the world, it could put out attendance numbers to match.

    Some day, some day.
    In view, a humble vaudevillian veteran, cast vicariously as both victim and villain by the vicissitudes of fate.

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  9. #24

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    Re: Sad state of the Classics!

    Quote Originally Posted by ron10036
    Magic Kingdom, even though it is a bit rough around the edges, is still yards better than your local Six Flags. That's something many people on this board seem to forget. All they WANT to see are the flaws... a few cracks.. some paint peeling.. a bit of rust... and forget that they are indeed in a place that is beautiful and magical.

    I see past the flaws in upkeep at MK as overall the park is stiil a glorious place, but when compared to Disneyland, which does gleam, it makes these flaws stand out more.

    Upon my return from Disneyland last week my friends kept asking me to compare the two. It simply cannot be done. WDW and DL are such different places overall. In terms of vacationing I would always choose WDW. It's a mega resort tailor made for vacations that last a long period of time. Disneyland Resort is great for a few days, but nothing more.

    Perhaps the contradiction comes in that BOTH parks put me in the "Disney Zone"... that escapism that these parks can and do provide.. and do so very well.

    In short, it ain't your local Six Flags.
    Point taken. I agree with you in just about every respect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Niyxstyx
    If it were kept to the standards that Disneyland is kept, it would surpass Disneyland in a quality experience.
    Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you, but this seems to be both contraditory and very subjective. If WDW were kept to the standards that Disneyland is kept, it would be no different from Disneyland, wouldn't it? But the fact of tha matter is that the two resorts have different purposes. It's not a matter of "better or worse"; it's a matter of which type of entertainment appeals more to your own personality type.

    I personally prefer Disneyland's unimposing, charming character to WDW's vast world of fastasy and wonderment. But that's not to say that Disneyland is better than Walt Disney World. I just happen to prefer it.

    Most people will agree that Walt Disney World is much better for week-long vacations than the Disneyland Resort is. I'm not trying to say that the entire Disneyland Resort has as much to offer as all of Walt Disney World. But if you compare just Disneyland to just the Magic Kingdom, you'll see that the current difference is exactly what we're talking about: quality. Some parts of the MK have higher quality than their DL counterparts--Tomorrowland, for instance. With others, such as Pirates of the Caribbean, the opposite is true. And some attractions only exist at one of the parks, such as Indiana Jones or the TTA.

    (By the way, I wasn't trying to say that Disneyland is "better" than the Magic Kingdom simply because it came first and was Walt's baby. That kind of logic can be twisted to say just about anything you want it to. Bottom line is, most people prefer one park to the other simply because they're used to that park. )


  10. #25

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    Re: Sad state of the Classics!

    Quote Originally Posted by Datameister
    Bottom line is, most people prefer one park to the other simply because they're used to that park. )
    Exactly right.

    And it's not contradictory, because I think the fundamental design of MK is superior to DL, but it was designed to be that way. If the execution was improved to be equal to Disneylands, the entire experience would be greater.

    Mind you, that's for the average tourist, not the purist!
    In view, a humble vaudevillian veteran, cast vicariously as both victim and villain by the vicissitudes of fate.

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  11. #26

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    Re: Sad state of the Classics!

    I understand what you're saying. I respectfully disagree with you about the MK's fundamental design being superior, but that's just me.


  12. #27

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    Re: Sad state of the Classics!

    Quote Originally Posted by ron10036
    MK is the park I grew up with, and one I love dearly, but on several levels I felt Disneyland delivered more entertainment value. Take for one Main Street USA. The shops there are devoted to the merchandise advertised on the facade. The music shop is a music shop (picked up an "on demand" copy of the Elliott Bros "Date Nites at Disneyland" record on CD), the cinema is still a cinema.. the Penny Arcade is mostly a penny arcade...

    .

    I visited Disneland for the fist time ever this month and couldn't believe what a huge difference this makes. This one single point puts our main street to shame. Mainstreet need a major overhaul at DW and needs to go back to distict stores. I know when they did this they used traffic flow as an issue however, the stores can all still be conected without loosing their own feel and merchandise.

  13. #28

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    Re: Sad state of the Classics!

    Quote Originally Posted by Niyxstyx
    Disneyland's target audience is the tourists and the SoCals, but lest we not forget, Walt Disney World caters to the Floridians especially hard. There are multitudes of special tickets for the residents of WDW's home state.
    Sorry, but I have to disagree with you here bigtime. DL's audience is made up of between 70-80% locals (defined as people who live from roughly Santa Barbara to the Mexican border). DL caters to them. DCA and the resort expansion was designed to attract a broader audience, but has failed miserably because that hasn't happened and most locals hate the place.

    WDW is all tourist driven. There are FAR more resident offers as far as ticket and such in SoCal than there are at WDW. IT's not that WDW doesn't care about Floridians, it does. Just that they are a much smaller portion of the pie and spend considerably less than a British family staying at the Boardwalk on a three-week holiday or a family from Ohio spending 10 nights at DAK Lodge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Niyxstyx
    As Disneyland was Walt's brain child, there also was a second. Now this park was not the Magic Kingdom, in fact, it wasn't even a park. But Epcot has an extravagent amount of detail and upkeep.
    Future World is a tad outdated and could use a few cosmetic changes, but World Showcase is some of the best work Disney has ever made. The attractions are a little outdated, but the exteriors and interiors are exquisite..
    Epcot also is a pale shadow of its original EPCOT Center days. I would agree that upkeep is much better at Epcot than the deplorable conditions at the MK, but I'd also say that most chnages at Epcot of late have been disasters and much of FW is a ghost-town.

    [/QUOTE]
    The Magic Kingdom is a very nice park. If it were kept to the standards that Disneyland is kept, it would surpass Disneyland in a quality experience. The classic attractions POTC, HM, and Space Mountain may never be on par with their California sisters, but the park itself is of a very nice design. Some of the planning is wonderful; the views from Splash Mountain, the detail in Fantasyland, etc. The castle is absolutely beautiful, and some of the planning for that is wonderous. But there are some managerial flaws. Some of the impressive and attractive little nooks and crannies have been reallocated to Smoking areas, which I find repulsive.

    Lately I have noticed painting crews and maintenance around the park. Hopefully with the holidays approaching, they will start to clean the place up. Really, the problem is with the management. If they only realized how big of a difference it could make if they really tried to clean the place up. I honestly think that if they took some time to make it nicer than any other park in the world, it could put out attendance numbers to match.

    Some day, some day.[/QUOTE]


    I agree the problem is poor management.

    But even if management improved upkeep and show quality and CM quality -- all of which ain't gonna happen -- it still wouldn't be on par with DL, IMHO.

    DL has many more attractions, many more little nooks and details and certainly history. I grew up with the MK, but DL is so much better as a park.

  14. #29

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    Re: Sad state of the Classics!

    Quote Originally Posted by SpectroMan
    The only thing I noticed about HM last week was the omission of a couple parts of the narration. There was no "This one can hardly contain himself", "They all seem to have trouble getting through" and "Perhaps Madame Leota.....remarkable head for materializing the disembodied" - all missing. Has it been this way for long?

    Oh, and also, a couple versions of Grim Grinning Ghosts sung by the various denizens of the graveyard were missing completely. Other than that, jerky movements by the Hitchhiking Ghosts and a very dirty scrim, it was pretty similar to DL. Oh, and the spot in the film of Madame Leota's spiel where it ends and starts over was VERY noticeable!
    That section of the Ghost Host spiel has always been missing from the WDW Haunted Mansion. All of the graveyard vocals are used in WDW, as well as one that is not heard at DL: The La-La singer (an alternate take of this vocal is heard on The Story and Song from The Haunted Mansion Lp from 1969). Perhaps the missing audio was simply just not working that day. For years now, the Singing Busts' vocals having been running way ahead of the others at WDW. Many of the audio loops there are either out-of-sync or running at the wrong speed.

  15. #30

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    Re: Sad state of the Classics!

    I agree. All the great MK rides look awful. On the same lines, today I took a rare trip on the express parking lot monorail...very dissapointing. I've seen subways that are in better shape.

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