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  1. #31

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    Re: How much will 'Wizarding World of Harry Potter' affect WDW?

    Quote Originally Posted by Coheteboy View Post
    I actually don't think WDW will be affected negatively at 'tall. (in my best Hermione Granger impression)

    Think about it for a second. Orlando is a tourist destination, much like Vegas or Southern California. If a family travels far to do one thing, they will probably do their best to see it all.

    In other words, Harry Potter at Universal will convince many to finally make that trip to florida and yes, Walt Disney World being a super star will be on their agenda. So I don't think this will hurt their attendance.
    What if they buy a ticket that includes everything in Orlando but WDW because it's a better value?

    What if they go to MK because it is "Disney World" but skip the other 3 parks?

    Personally I think MK will still be #1 but the other 3, especially AK and DHS, will be hurt by Potter. I mean AK is only getting "extended hours" as a part of the Nightastic! promotion (and that promotion likely is what's begin done to combat Potter, it can't be any coincidence that the first time in many years Orlando does a seasonal promotion without a hard ticket party is the same one Potter opens).

    As for Fantasyland and Star Tours they apparently never were meant to combat Potter according to Martin. The 4 that were:

    Space Mountain reno (which did happen to a smaller degree)
    New JII
    MI coaster
    Mysterious Island

    Have obviously not been done in time to do so (if they all get built one day).
    I like The Happiest Millionaire. What's wrong with that?

  2. #32

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    Talking Re: How much will 'Wizarding World of Harry Potter' affect WDW?

    I think Disney will feel it in the pocket, but only for this summer. While I like HP, I don't see the "park" holding anyones attention for long. I keep going back to WDW because I like it there, not because of the things they add. While I'm sure Disney would like to see more guests like me they still have to keep things move forward to keep their guest coming in. If US can keep the updates happening then, in the long run it will force Disney to do the same to maintain their numbers. However, I think Disney will just weather the storm of HP and it will be bussiness as usual.

  3. #33

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    Re: How much will 'Wizarding World of Harry Potter' affect WDW?

    I agree with flynnibus, on this. People are going to go to Orlando, this time because of HP, and because USF does have 2 theme parks, why not base the trip there instead of WDW, for a change. After all, not that much has changed at WDW.

    So I see that will encourage more guests to visit USF 1st theme park, and will boost numbers for that park, too. More guests will be tempted and choose to make Universal their home-vacation bases, spend 2 1/2 to 3 days there, and explore their shopping area, and use those hotels. Islands of Adventure has been around for a few years, and has had time to mature.

    If the reviews are favorable for 1st time visitors (the big HP fans), and that USF is worth a few days, that will encourage other regular out of state visitors to try something new, and try USF, on their vacations in 2011 or 2012. Especially, when considering that Pleasure Island at WDW is no more.

    Most people who vacation from out of state only have a certain number of days for there vacations, 7 to 9 days (a pair of weekends with the days between). With considering the number of days they have for their vacation, bases their hotel as USF or nearby Orlando, consider arrival and departure days, then two fulls days at Universal, then drive over to WDW for a couple days. And then take a couple days on beaches on the gulf or the ocean.

    People will see there is more to do than just stay cooped up at WDW the whole vacation. They will opt to cut their time at WDW, and stay offsite. WDW will lose hotel revenue, people will start making decisions to cut days at WDW, people will spend less on food and other items at WDW.

    This is what USF has been aiming for, ever since IoA opened years ago, but it takes a while to get the public to change their habits. But HP might just be the straw that dramatically changes things in Orlando.

    And what has WDW done? Closed Pleasure Island, MK has been stagnant and looks old. Use a couple days to park hop - do ToT, Rock n Roller Coaster, then hop over to Mission Space, Test Track, and then spend the evening around the Epcot Countries. Day 2 Animal Kingdom. No need to stay at WDW hotels for just a couple days in the parks there.

  4. #34

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    Re: How much will 'Wizarding World of Harry Potter' affect WDW?

    I've been to WDW tons of times. I went 3 times in 2009. I have yet to step foot in Universal. Nothing about it gets me excited or interested enough to actually make a trip there. I'm sure I'm not in the majority in that but I would spend a day checking out HP. If they had never put in HP I probably would never get around to going to Universal. So I'm one of those people who never leave WDW that will leave the next time I'm there. I really hope that WDW feels the need to step it up and compete with HP. I think that for the first few years there will be a difference in attendance while people check it out but overall there is a reason why WDW is #1 and I think that won't change in the long run. Short term maybe but long run not so much.

  5. #35

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    Re: How much will 'Wizarding World of Harry Potter' affect WDW?

    We have a 7 day trip to WDW coming up and we dedicated 1 of those days to Universal....but now that they've moved the opening of WWHP we'll just spend that day at disney....but the thing is we almost NEVER go anywhere else when disney is an option, so it's already having an effect on us.

  6. #36

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    Re: How much will 'Wizarding World of Harry Potter' affect WDW?

    Quote Originally Posted by JtnOrl View Post
    It's really everyone else calling it a park at this point, not Universal. I haven't heard them use the "theme park within a theme park" line in a long time.



    I can't speak for the uninformed masses, but I'm personally expecting more of what I already see, and what I see is high quality. And IOA may be a one-time visit for yourself, but that doesn't apply to everyone else. I also fail to see how WDW's parks offer more incentive to return than any other comparable park.



    I don't follow where you're going with this. Have you looked at Universal's results so far? Disney couldn't do any better if they tried.

    I disagree. Yes it can when it spends the money too, or when they spend someone else money as in Tokyo Disney Seas.

  7. #37

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    Re: How much will 'Wizarding World of Harry Potter' affect WDW?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aladdin View Post
    I agree with flynnibus, on this. People are going to go to Orlando, this time because of HP, and because USF does have 2 theme parks, why not base the trip there instead of WDW, for a change. After all, not that much has changed at WDW.

    So I see that will encourage more guests to visit USF 1st theme park, and will boost numbers for that park, too. More guests will be tempted and choose to make Universal their home-vacation bases, spend 2 1/2 to 3 days there, and explore their shopping area, and use those hotels. Islands of Adventure has been around for a few years, and has had time to mature.

    If the reviews are favorable for 1st time visitors (the big HP fans), and that USF is worth a few days, that will encourage other regular out of state visitors to try something new, and try USF, on their vacations in 2011 or 2012. Especially, when considering that Pleasure Island at WDW is no more.

    Most people who vacation from out of state only have a certain number of days for there vacations, 7 to 9 days (a pair of weekends with the days between). With considering the number of days they have for their vacation, bases their hotel as USF or nearby Orlando, consider arrival and departure days, then two fulls days at Universal, then drive over to WDW for a couple days. And then take a couple days on beaches on the gulf or the ocean.

    People will see there is more to do than just stay cooped up at WDW the whole vacation. They will opt to cut their time at WDW, and stay offsite. WDW will lose hotel revenue, people will start making decisions to cut days at WDW, people will spend less on food and other items at WDW.

    This is what USF has been aiming for, ever since IoA opened years ago, but it takes a while to get the public to change their habits. But HP might just be the straw that dramatically changes things in Orlando.

    And what has WDW done? Closed Pleasure Island, MK has been stagnant and looks old. Use a couple days to park hop - do ToT, Rock n Roller Coaster, then hop over to Mission Space, Test Track, and then spend the evening around the Epcot Countries. Day 2 Animal Kingdom. No need to stay at WDW hotels for just a couple days in the parks there.

    My prediction is that WDW will continue on its path of recovery. Both WDW hotel occupancy rates and WDW theme park attendance will be up vs Summer of 2009. I believe projections already are anticipating this. In reaction to this you are also seeing less discounting offers at WDW resort hotels as it sees it doesn't need to offer as WDW not anticipates it may not need as many incentives to keep guests comeing. So as I look at the real life business factors now.... NO, IOA's new HP attraction is not going to negatively impact WDW, at least not significantly so.

    What I do think might happen is a signficanty higher percentage of WDW guests will take the time to go to Universal. But as for Universal being the homebase, it really doesn't have a big enough hotel room inventory to enjoy a huge bump in poeple choosing them over WDW hotels and WDW hotels have a loyality following that Universal could envy. They have three hotels total, WDW has 7 DVC resorts where like it or not, the loyality almost gtd's the members will be using points to stay at WDW and travel for a day or so to Universal.
    Last edited by Kidgenie; 03-28-2010 at 04:29 PM.

  8. #38

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    Re: How much will 'Wizarding World of Harry Potter' affect WDW?

    Quote Originally Posted by GraceysGirl View Post
    I've been to WDW tons of times. I went 3 times in 2009. I have yet to step foot in Universal. Nothing about it gets me excited or interested enough to actually make a trip there. I'm sure I'm not in the majority in that but I would spend a day checking out HP. If they had never put in HP I probably would never get around to going to Universal. So I'm one of those people who never leave WDW that will leave the next time I'm there. I really hope that WDW feels the need to step it up and compete with HP. I think that for the first few years there will be a difference in attendance while people check it out but overall there is a reason why WDW is #1 and I think that won't change in the long run. Short term maybe but long run not so much.
    This is me too. I'm one of those people who does the whole immersion at the WDW resort. Once I pull off the highway and go under the big arch at the entrance of the resort, I don't leave until it's time to head home.

    I love Harry Potter and I think the art in those photos that were posted at the beginning of this thread is amazing. If there was a Harry Potter theme park opening in Orlando, I might make time for it just because of my love for the books and films, but I really have no desire to head over to Universal. Whenever I see adds for Universal, all I see is the huge thrill rides which are fantastic for those who enjoy them - but I've never really liked them - at any park. Busch Gardens, for example, is a beautiful park (the Old Country in Virginia) but since I don't do big puke-inducing roller coasters, it's basically a really expensive place to walk around, have lunch and shop.

    I think the people who are inclined to spend time at Universal on their Orlando vacations will continue to do so. I also think that people who come to Orlando for Harry Potter, will probably enjoy that but they will spend time at Disney as well. With the way the "magic your way" passes are structured, the difference between a 5 and 6 day pass is about $4 (plus food and souvenirs, of course). I don't see people NOT staying in a Disney resort hotel because they decide to head over to Universal for a day. If Disney were smart, they'd advertise a shuttle from their hotels for a one day experience at Universal - to avoid making families choose - they'd keep all that hotel business for sure. Besides, whenever I've gone to Disney, even off-season, the hotels have very few empty rooms - I doubt that a small section of Universal is going to make a huge dent in that business.

  9. #39

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    Re: How much will 'Wizarding World of Harry Potter' affect WDW?

    Quote Originally Posted by Magenta Panther View Post
    I think there is no way the new Fantasyland expansion will avail against Potterland. Potter attracts both genders. Princess junk just appeals to girls.

    For my part, the next trip I take to Florida will be based around Potterland. I'm a little bit too disgusted with Disney in general right now to give it any more of my time and money.
    To each their own, but I have to ask - if you're so disgusted with Disney right now, what attracts you to this site? And what did they do to disgust you?

  10. #40

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    Re: How much will 'Wizarding World of Harry Potter' affect WDW?

    What Disney Management is hoping for is that WWOHP will only take a small dip in Attendance. Most people already plan to spend time visiting other parks while they are in the area. The Town of Hogsmead looks to only be about as big is Liberty Square. With one new attraction and two redressed/re-themed attractions, most folks will not spent much time as crowds will be fierce and wait lines will be forever. Expect wait times to be at least three hours for the main attraction. Disney Management is hoping that enough guests will come to spend their "extra" days at the parks and will spend money and see "promised" expansion to lure them back for future vacations. I also expect you will see more characters than usual to have an emotional appeal to get guests to "spend" more time.

  11. #41

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    Re: How much will 'Wizarding World of Harry Potter' affect WDW?

    Quote Originally Posted by celticdar View Post
    To each their own, but I have to ask - if you're so disgusted with Disney right now, what attracts you to this site? And what did they do to disgust you?
    Though I think disgusted is a strong word, I can understand this poster's feelings. Most people on these boards love Disney, but we want the company and its parks to be at their full potential and working for long-term growth and loyalty rather than short-term profiteering. Lately, this has not been the case, causing many, including myself, to be unhappy with the quality and innovation of new attractions.
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  12. #42

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    Re: How much will 'Wizarding World of Harry Potter' affect WDW?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kidgenie View Post
    My prediction is that WDW will continue on its path of recovery. Both WDW hotel occupancy rates and WDW theme park attendance will be up vs Summer of 2009. I believe projects already are anticipating this. In reaction to this you are also seeing less discounting offer at WDW as it sees it doesn't need to offer as many incentives for guest to come. So as I look at the real life business factors now, NO, IOA's new HP attraction is not going to negatively impact WDW, at least not significantly so.
    You're mixing apples and oranges here though... you're saying WDW will continue to recover... this is independent of USO though.. that is simply the economy rebounding. You're not comparing the same metrics. Having WDW rates go up is not really related to USO... because you'd need to compare what the rates would rebound to w/o the USO impact. The measures of interest will be if USO shows growth beyond it's normal points (not just sequential numbers or comparison to 2008 because those numbers are abnormally depressed). Or numbers showing one growing faster then the other, etc. It will be hard to separate the economic situation changing vs. competition when both grow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kidgenie View Post
    What I do think will happen is a signficanty higher percentage of WDW guests will take the time to go to Universal. But as for as Universal being the homebase, it really doesn't have a big enough hotel room inventory to enjoy a huge bump in poeple choosing them over WDW hotels and WDW hotels have a loyality following that Universal could envy. They have three hotels total, WDW has 7 DVC resorts where like it or not, the loyality almost gtd's the members will be using points to stay at WDW and travel for a day or so to Universal.
    What Uni has been clamering for is people to just give them a chance. Look at GraceysGirl... that is the poster child USO is hoping to break the ice with. To get someone who never would have crossed the line... to give them a shot. They know they have the product to get people to return if they give them a shot. The problem is they have such an uphill climb to break down that invisible crown WDW holds in so many tourist's head. The rest of the town knows if people give them a shot.. they can win. That's why the rest of the town thrived for the first 20+ years after Disney came to town - its also why Disney tried to slam the door shut with MYW concepts. WDW wins by keeping it's visitors ignorant of what the rest of Orlando is. Any attempts to break that brainwashing is a threat to Disney.

    As for Hotel inventory... USO has plenty onsite with their three hotels (all 4 AAA 4 diamond) plus all the capacity in the surrounding Orlando area. USO doesn't need the total capacity WDW has simply because their parks aren't that big anyways. The key is to ensure you have enough hotel capacity for your parks. Their hotels also offer more perks then most Disney resorts. Unfortunately this is an area WDW has been sliding in greatly since the 90s... 'resort' is a loose term at WDW these days
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  13. #43

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    Re: How much will 'Wizarding World of Harry Potter' affect WDW?

    Quote Originally Posted by celticdar View Post

    Whenever I see adds for Universal, all I see is the huge thrill rides which are fantastic for those who enjoy them - but I've never really liked them - at any park. Busch Gardens, for example, is a beautiful park (the Old Country in Virginia) but since I don't do big puke-inducing roller coasters, it's basically a really expensive place to walk around, have lunch and shop.
    I love roller coasters (except Space Mountain, I hate that one) but I have a 6 flags an hour from my house. Why go the FL to go to a 6 Flags with a better theme? That's what Universal looks like to me which is why I'll never make a special trip to FL just for that. I think that I'm not the only one.

    I do see the other side of the argument and hope that any attendance drop will result in WDW pulling their crap together.

  14. #44

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    Re: How much will 'Wizarding World of Harry Potter' affect WDW?

    Quote Originally Posted by GraceysGirl View Post
    I love roller coasters (except Space Mountain, I hate that one) but I have a 6 flags an hour from my house. Why go the FL to go to a 6 Flags with a better theme? That's what Universal looks like to me which is why I'll never make a special trip to FL just for that. I think that I'm not the only one.
    But this is perception.. and it's not very accurate. This is why Universal's biggest issue has been getting people to give them a chance. They've not done well enough on their marketing and controlling the image of the parks.

    Universal Studios really only has two roller coasters. The rest are shows, simulators, etc (should remind you a lot about Disney...) including some world class attractions such as Men in Black.
    List of Universal Studios Florida attractions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    IOA has more thrill rides - but only two real full sized coasters. The rest are a mix of attractions... including dark rides... and arguably the best attraction ever built in Spiderman.

    Check out the attraction list
    Islands of Adventure - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    IOA/USF isn't any more Six Flags then Disney Hollywood Studios is. What the original USF lacked in detailed atmosphere theming, they took to heart when they built IOA. Areas like the Lost Continent, and Dr Seus and others rival Disney or exceed it.
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  15. #45

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    Re: How much will 'Wizarding World of Harry Potter' affect WDW?

    Interesting points. I enjoyed reading them. I see a trend someone and I have very different view points and hopefully thats ok

    I am not sure how their three 4 diamond rated properties have anything to do with the topic of will Wizarding World of Harry Potter affect WDW. And WDW has five 4 diamonds, so the 4 diamond room inventory at WDW is much larger then Universal's total inventory. That was more of a apples to oranges comparasion.

    Back to topic... It not comparing apples to oranges when I discuss business results. I am taking in all relavant factors. Yes the economy, to some is said to be in rebound. To my friend that just lost her job, she clearly is not feeling this "recovery" just yet. But booking trends for WDW point to some recovery for WDW regardless of what the economy is doing. Poeple are starting to travel again, at least to disney and persumably to Orlando as a whole.

    WDW and Univeral will compete over this increase in population coming to Orlando but Universal will not be the sole benefit. Simply giving all the factors that I think will prevent WDW from seeing any negative impact to it's btm line is not comparing apples to oranges, it looking at the big picture and all the factors.

    I do not see even the mighty Harry Potter world Hurting WDW. To ingore the other factors would be blind sided and to tell only a half truth. Universal just took a 12 pt drop in attendance.... some of which was off set by improvements in the last quarter. What WWoHP will do is help them to reverse that by stealing back a day or so from WDW visitors, and yes there will be some that make Universal their home base, but not a significantly high amount. Don't discount their limited room inventory too easily as the limited amount of rooms means a limited ability to host the theorical masses that are going to base their orlando vacations at Universal instead of Disney.

    I will say that my guess is this.... Between the two resorts, Universal will see a larger increase in attendance vs. its prior year. That is more do the how bad Universal's prior year was. Again WDW did not take nearly as big a hit as Universal.

    I do not see any scenarios in which hurt Disney's high profit margin hotel business. The data points I see show WDW hotels enjoying the same or slightly higher room rates with out as much discounting that was offered in the prior year for all the reason I previously have stated.

    I do think Universal has a good product, but they are still not as complete a resort destination as WDW. For the first time visitor, WDW still has more to offer. What you personally like more is up for debate, but that WDW has more is not. For the repeat visitor, WDW has more non theme park options as well.

    Now if you want to argue that the vast majority of what Universal has added has been done to a better quality standard then what Disney has added in the last 10-15 years..... I agree. IMO Universal has added far more quality to its product in the last 10+ years then the larthgic WDW down the interstate.
    Last edited by Kidgenie; 03-28-2010 at 06:36 PM.

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