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  1. #1

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    Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

    Unless you have been hiding under a rock for the past month, you have probably noticed that in Orlando, the Wizarding World of Harry Potter has opened in Universal Islands of Adventure in Universal Orlando, trumping anything Disney has done in a while. The last things I can recall on this level of impressiveness are Expedition Everest and Indiana Jones (DLR). The sad thing is, Imagineers can beat this. They have proven to be the pioneers for new technology over the years, all starting with the Matterhorn, which broke ground for roller coaster technology today. But why can't the imagineers bring out a the HUrricane of immersiveness and magic that they have proven to be able to do over the years? Why must you (im a disneylander)guys be stuck with a bunch of meet and greets and a clone of something else?

    I believe (as does everybody else) , that TDO is to blame. TDO is the perfect example of what Disney SHOULDN'T be. All about money. Disney was at its finest when money was not an issue. When Disney was a company known for creating magical moments and making people marvel at the technology they create, it was amazing. But now, it has proven to just be another company. Its all about the green for them, and for TDO, its all about saving the green. TDO is apparently too..hmmm how do i put this nicely? Too IGNORANTLY, REDUNDANTLY, STUPID!!!! They need to realize that when you spend enough money in something amazing, it all comes back to them. they just need to take 1 big risk, and then when they see how their investment comes back to them, they (TDO and the Corporate part of Disney that handles all the money) will probably (hopefully)be throwing money at the imagineers to come up with new, innovative, E-Tickets. And when this happens, the Imagineers can do what they do best. let their imaginations run wild. Create something the likes of which has not only never been seen before, and that thought to be impossible.

    ok that last part was a little dreaming, but I can dream right?

    Al reported that TDA told the imagineers to come up with 2 new E-Tickets. Whether this happens or not, it doesn't matter. TDA is also about money, but by this, you can tell its not as drastic as in TDO. they are handing over their money at Disneyland, which is awesome. But where it really needs to be is in Orlando. What does Disneynland have to compete with? Knott's? Cedar fair took care of that. Legoland? im laughing as I type. Universal? all there is to compete against is the new Transformers ride, but RSR racers will take care of that.

    Disney, please realize that if you continue like this, your not gonna be the head honchos in the theme park industry. Universal has proven that they have what it takes. Imagineers, you have what it takes to beat Wizarding World. I know it. We (The Disney Fans) know it. you can do something that will be 5 steps ahead of Universal. All you need is that creative spark. TDO, stop being so cheap. DO invest in Disney World. DO something. But DON'T think that your fantasyland expansion will beat Universal. Because that, is just Wishful Thinking.


    -
    and thank you for reading, my epic fail of an essay. i made this cause i jsut wanted to express my feeling. hopefully you can see why I got a C in english class. SO what do you guys think? Like it? hate it? Want to put a curse on me just for writing it?
    Last edited by Ckelef1; 06-19-2010 at 09:37 AM.

  2. #2

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    Re: Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

    Quote Originally Posted by Ckelef1 View Post
    Disney, please realize that if you continue like this, your not gonna be the head honchos in the theme park industry. Universal has proven that they have what it takes. Imagineers, you have what it takes to beat Wizarding World. I know it. We (The Disney Fans) know it. you can do something that will be 5 steps ahead of Universal. All you need is that creative spark. TDO, stop being so cheap. DO invest in Disney World. DO something. But DON'T think that your fantasyland expansion will beat Universal. Because that, is just Wishful Thinking.

    This is the heart of the matter. I think you won't find many disagreeing here. 100% agree. Please TDO, prove to everyone you are still the best, and WWoHP was just a fluke. Show us something completely amazing!
    It's a Zip-A-Dee-Doo-Dah...Tip for Today!










  3. #3

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    Re: Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

    Similar to the matter:

    Unversal Studios Japan - 1

    Imagineers + Every Space Mountain in existance - 0

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1ucVkrC6t8&translated=1]YouTube - [720p]SPACE FANTASY THE RIDE (Onride POV) - USJ[/ame]

    Oh, and on the subject of risks, I recall Walt Disney remarking that success is inevitable with risk-taking. Disneyland itself was a risk and look where it is today.
    California Screamin' Ride Count: 111






  4. #4

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    Re: Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

    I'm not saying WWoHP isn't good because it is, but the rest of the Universal Orlando Resort is still worse than Disney. One little section in one park isn't suddenly going to make them the kings of the theme park industry.

  5. #5

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    Re: Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

    Quote Originally Posted by Ckelef1 View Post
    Unless you have been hiding under a rock for the past month, you have probably noticed that in Orlando, the Wizarding World of Harry Potter has opened in Universal Islands of Adventure in Universal Orlando, trumping anything Disney has done in a while. The last things I can recall on this level of impressiveness are Expedition Everest and Indiana Jones (DLR). The sad thing is, Imagineers can beat this. They have proven to be the pioneers for new technology over the years, all starting with the Matterhorn, which broke ground for roller coaster technology today. But why can't the imagineers bring out a the HUrricane of immersiveness and magic that they have proven to be able to do over the years? Why must you (im a disneylander)guys be stuck with a bunch of meet and greets and a clone of something else?

    I believe (as does everybody else) , that TDO is to blame. TDO is the perfect example of what Disney SHOULDN'T be. All about money. Disney was at its finest when money was not an issue. When Disney was a company known for creating magical moments and making people marvel at the technology they create, it was amazing. But now, it has proven to just be another company. Its all about the green for them, and for TDO, its all about saving the green. TDO is apparently too..hmmm how do i put this nicely? Too IGNORANTLY, REDUNDANTLY, STUPID!!!! They need to realize that when you spend enough money in something amazing, it all comes back to them. they just need to take 1 big risk, and then when they see how their investment comes back to them, they (TDO and the Corporate part of Disney that handles all the money) will probably (hopefully)be throwing money at the imagineers to come up with new, innovative, E-Tickets. And when this happens, the Imagineers can do what they do best. let their imaginations run wild. Create something the likes of which has not only never been seen before, and that thought to be impossible.
    The missing link in your chain of reasoning is that you assume that Imagineering is still capable of doing something as amazing as Harry Potter. In a word (or two), it isn't. Believe me, there are many truly talented Imagineers out there, who have a real artistic passion and who can turn a theme park ride into a work of art, so where are they? Universal Creative. They designed Harry Potter. For years, DL has been letting its talent walk out the door because of a sea change in management culture.

    In the 80's and 90's, Disney Corporate ceased to think of the parks as an end in themselves and began to consider them a means to an end: first as an ATM to prop up other divisions of the company and later, as a marketing channel for established franchise brands. When this mentality began to dominate at the corporate level, it naturally trickled down to Imagineering. Anymore, an Imagineer is more likely to make his career by slapping a Marvel character onto an off-the-shelf carnival ride than by designing the next Harry Potter.

    Oh, and they also better be good at kissing arse and stabbing backs. Can't let that upstart kid in the next cubicle over get a leg up on you, now can you?

    Imagineering is just not a friendly place for truly passionate creative types, so those types go where they're wanted, and now we see the results. I don't think Imagineering has it in them anymore to build something like Harry Potter.
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  6. #6

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    Re: Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

    They can't beat WWoHP. They've had the opportunity to do something on this scale with a franchise that even dwarfs Harry Potter. You know what we got? Star Tours......


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    Re: Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

    Quote Originally Posted by k_peek_2000 View Post
    They can't beat WWoHP. They've had the opportunity to do something on this scale with a franchise that even dwarfs Harry Potter. You know what we got? Star Tours......
    Quote Originally Posted by Walt Disney View Post
    It's kind of fun to do the impossible.
    just had to use that quote :P

    There's always gonna be something that "can't be beaten". It eventually is, even when the odds are 100000000000:1

  8. #8

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    Re: Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

    Quote Originally Posted by ryno1986 View Post
    I'm not saying WWoHP isn't good because it is, but the rest of the Universal Orlando Resort is still worse than Disney. One little section in one park isn't suddenly going to make them the kings of the theme park industry.
    WWoHP may not be a large enough draw in itself, but it really serves to pinpoint exactly what the fanbois have been saying for years. Quality at Disney is slipping (rapidly) and the gap between Disney and other theme parks is tightening. WWoHP just points out how Disney is becoming average rather than outstanding. It's also the reason why I'll be spending my money at Universal rather than Disney next year. And to be completely honest, I'm glad Universal got the rights to HP. Disney would have never built anything close to that quality nowadays.
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  9. #9

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    Re: Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

    There is no real difference in the skill-set of the individuals at Universal Creative & WDI (and a handful of smaller independent themed design firms). As has been noted, many Imagineers have spent time at the rival firms and vice-versa. These people comprise a group of elite designers that float among WDI, Universal, Thinkwell, Landmark or provide consulting/freelance services as jobs/projects come and go. WDI remains by far the biggest of these with deepest resources & history.

    To the original poster's point, however, there appears to be a major difference in what it costs each firm to produce something extraordinary (i.e., what $300 million will buy Universal versus what it will buy Disney). I say this because $300 million is roughly the amount that each company will spend on their new Floridian lands (Potterland & Fantasyland Phase I). Universal Creative is able to get far more bang for their buck, possibly because they are much smaller than WDI, they farm out a lot of the work to companies like Nassal, etc., whereas WDI does more in-house production (although that is rapidly changing).

    Either way, if WDI were to build the exact same thing Universal has, I guess it would have cost them north of $400 mil, possibly $500m. That is the problem. What corporate executive is going to greenlight a $500 million super-e-ticket with all the ROI issues and risk involved, particularly when attendance is relatively strong and doesn't mandate it.

    So it's not that WDI can't produce something like Potter - they most assuredly can - it's that they can't do it as cost-effectively as their smaller, more nimble rivals.

  10. #10

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    Re: Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

    I'm sure Universal was able to cut costs by duplicating props and set pieces that have already been designed for the movies, along with some roller coasters. But I still agree with your post Randy. For $300 million, they got alot.
    Last edited by Angie_Duke; 06-19-2010 at 11:43 AM.
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  11. #11

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    Re: Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

    Oh, I don't agree that all of Disney's WDI talent is now at Universal. Disney has plenty of amazing talent..... TDS should be proof of that. OLC's money but 100% WDI's design and imagination. nor do I agree that it all about how much Universal could get for $300 million vs. what Disney could get. What was the cost of JUST the new build attraction at WWoHP? Not the cost of the entire project, but just the attraction? I would guest just the attraction was half of the expense and like wise Epedition Everest was what.... $150.00? Not sure... Universal may be able to get more, but I don't think its prohibitively more considering Disney makes more in the theme park business.

    The only real issue is the corporate belief that WDW is maxed out. that any major investment is not going to boost the bottom like, but rather only ensure Disney remains #1. The belief that all they have to do the bare minium to keep things from getting too stale, and they will stay at #1. And unfortunatey so far they seem to be right

    Disney's issue is they don't do anything for bragging rights anymore, for just because its kewl, and because they want to show off and blow your socks off. New Fantasyland isn't going to complete against WWoHP, either by plan or design, but it will refresh the Magic Kingdom, the number one most visited theme park in the world. MK doesn't need something to boost it higher, its already at the top. TDO knows that WWoHP is not going to boost IOA past MK attendance levels but Expanding Fantasyland will help to maintain the park's number one status, and opening it a couple of years after the Hype of WWoHP had dyed down may have even been part of the plan.

  12. #12

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    Re: Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

    WWOHP exists and it looks like an amazing experience... for a first time visit. I don't expect WWOHP to be an amazing attraction for repeated yearly visits. It's like you've done it once and you're done with it.

    I just personally don't get that same feeling with WDW.

    But I am happy that Universal's WWOHP exists because hopefully it will light some kind of creative fire under Disney's bum.

    I am also well aware the new Fantasyland is coming and I believe people are jumping to conclusions about the new Fantasyland and should really only judge it after it is officially open meaning WWOHP seems small compared to what the new Fantasyland is going to be.

    I of course expect budget cuts and I do not expect what I saw in the Fantasyland concept art will infact be the final product but I do look forward to Disney taking one such a large project for the Magic Kingdom. You know, me being a Magic Kingdom boy at heart I look forward to revisiting the new Fantasyland yearly whereas as much as I love Harry, i don't expect to make that are of Universal Studios a yearly visit.
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  13. #13

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    Re: Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

    While I agree with your points, I feel that any of our opinions stem from the slightest bit of ignorance, as we really have no idea what is actually going on in Team Disney Orlando.

    In the general sense, I do agree that the past decade or so have been disappointing, and things need to change.
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    (I've never visited Disneyland Resort, Tokyo Disney Resort, Disneyland Resort Paris, nor Hong Kong Disneyland Resort, so don't be fooled when I pretend to know what I'm talking about. [But I'm pretty good with the information, if I do say so myself. And you can hit me all you want with Walt Disney World.])



  14. #14

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    Re: Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

    Trust me, WDI has the ability to defeat WWohP by a long run, but it all revolves around money. If TDA or TDO can't supply the amount of money it takes to make something like this, it just can't happen. Hopefully Carsland will be this immersive.
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    Re: Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

    Does anyone else miss Michael Eisner as much as I do???????
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