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  1. #1

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    Smile Transportation help 4 the S.ern part of WDW: Coasters & ?

    Intro.: Roller coasters don't have to be thrill rides. One of the best parts of any coaster I've ridden is near the end if the Magnum Force roller coaster at Cedar Point in Sandusky, Ohio. It concludes with a fast trip straight over some very small hills, with each lifting riders off of their seats, pleasantly defying gravity. I've been on it a few times and it is about the only ride (in addition to Soarin') that always ends with the audience breaking out into applause. These negative Gs are the opposite of the miserable Gs on Magic Mountain's Goliath.

    And part of what makes tall coasters so breathtaking and Big Thunder at night so interesting is, of course, the scenery.

    Proposal: Three coasters linking WDW's three southern parks. Coasters are far cheaper, mile per mile, than monorails. And they don't have to be over 140 feet tall. (They should be shorter than Spaceship Earth and other tall icons of the parks.) They shouldn't be thrilling, just pleasant fun for almost the whole family.
    1. One between EPCOT and the Studios.
    2. One between the Studios and the Animal Kingdom.
    3. And the longest one connecting the Animal Kingdom and EPCOT.
    All three of these parks would be linked to each other by non-stop rides with just three coasters.
    There are at least two large spaces that could be used as stations in World Showcase in between World Showcase pavilions on land where pavilions were not built. Or the EPCOT stations might be near the monorail to the MK.

    And three additional, far-shorter trains could link moderate resorts to (very) nearby parks as follows:
    1. Port Orleans connected to EPCOT--specifically to the land between China and Germany.
    2. Coronado Springs to the Animal Kingdom.
    3. And the Caribbean Beach Resort to the Studios.
    Obviously this might not even make a dent in the need for busses, but connecting each of those moderate resorts to one park would make them a little bit more attractive.

    Maybe what I'm proposing aren't really roller coasters, but inexpensive, fast, and fun trains able to ride over roads without CMs on board.

    --Tom Sinsky
    Last edited by jcruise86; 05-27-2011 at 11:22 PM.

  2. #2

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    Re: Transportation help 4 the S.ern part of WDW: Coasters & ?

    I think that's an interesting idea. I myself have often wondered why roller coaster design hasn't been used to make transportation rides. Granted, much of this stems from playing Rollercoaster Tycoon, where I always used coaster track to make a transport. To make it practical, I don't know if I would make it overly thrilling, but it could move at a brisk pace. I think a shuttle-type coaster with no obvious altitude changes would work just fine.
    In view, a humble vaudevillian veteran, cast vicariously as both victim and villain by the vicissitudes of fate.

    DoppelV

  3. #3

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    Mild coaster trains as transport

    Quote Originally Posted by DoppelV View Post
    I think that's an interesting idea. I myself have often wondered why roller coaster design hasn't been used to make transportation rides. Granted, much of this stems from playing Rollercoaster Tycoon, where I always used coaster track to make a transport. To make it practical, I don't know if I would make it overly thrilling, but it could move at a brisk pace. I think a shuttle-type coaster with no obvious altitude changes would work just fine.
    Then again, why not go up 100-140 feet and make it more scenic? You'd get the dramatic climb up a hill (not too steep) and then the faster ride down hill to the destination. A few tiny hills in a row on a straight track near the end of each ride would be uplifting.

    Connecting the 3 southern parks with coasters would visually unite part of the resort, and coasters--even mild ones--communicate fun and recreation.

    Suggestion: "go green" and save a million on white paint and labor by letting the wood--if one is wood--stay its natural color. Knott's Ghost Rider looks fine and would probably look even better if it were closer (lower altitude) to nature. Since steel coasters are smoother than wooden ones, I would vote for steel.
    Last edited by jcruise86; 05-28-2011 at 02:36 PM.

  4. #4

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    Re: Mild coaster trains as transport

    Dear JCruise86:

    We all love ALL of your ideas about these coaster trains and will have them all up and running a few years before our 50th celebration in 2021--right after we finish the Frontierland Hotel that you (among others) suggested for Disneyland! We misplaced the links to the Frontierland Hotel threads, so please once again send us your real name; we'd like to send you a certificate good for another complimentary churro. And when the coasters open it will be our great pleasure to offer you a one-time, one-night discount of 15% off of your stay at one of the moderate resorts you mentioned, subject to availability.

    What were we ever thinking, about to waste millions on a high-tech, spontaneity-killing attractions reservations system? Our money will now go into these fun, fast rides!

    See ya real soon!
    Bob Iger,
    Steve Jobs,
    John Lasseter,
    and Thomas Staggs

    (In the voice of Martin Short's Ed Grimley: Oh yeah, like that could really happen!)
    Last edited by jcruise86; 05-28-2011 at 02:30 PM.

  5. #5

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    Re: Transportation help 4 the S.ern part of WDW: Coasters & ?

    How would people carry their belongings? How would the track be inspected (walked) each day? Since you alluded to this actually being a "real" coaster with hills, what if a coaster valleys and needs to be evacuated and pushed back to the station? What of the visual intrusion of coasters climbing so high? Using a roller coaster to get around sounds like fun, but it would be a daunting challenge to actually operate such a coaster.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    How would people carry their belongings? How would the track be inspected (walked) each day? Since you alluded to this actually being a "real" coaster with hills, what if a coaster valleys and needs to be evacuated and pushed back to the station? What of the visual intrusion of coasters climbing so high? Using a roller coaster to get around sounds like fun, but it would be a daunting challenge to actually operate such a coaster.
    "We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard." JFK, or possibly Ted Sorensen

    Good questions above, Lazyboy, and I would add, what about rain? Florida has strong storms that can shut down outdoor coasters. Maybe there could be a Peoplemover type cover above riders or a roof above the whole track. (But no view-blocking walls or floors other than the track below and maybe an evacuation walkway to the side.)

    Maybe there could be a storage car or two for strollers or wheelchairs. Or maybe some guests could stay in their chairs.

    Another downside, some stupid and thoughtless kids would certainly go to another park and be late for meeting their parents, though cell phones might help with this. I wouldn't let kids ride without guardians unless they were 12.

    New development to announce:
    I'd like a caged animal car or two like on Casey Jr. at Disneyland.

    These rides might increase sales of Parkhopper passes.
    Last edited by jcruise86; 05-28-2011 at 08:49 PM.

  7. #7

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    Re: Transportation help 4 the S.ern part of WDW: Coasters & ?

    Quote Originally Posted by jcruise86 View Post
    "We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard." JFK, or possibly Ted Sorensen
    The difference is that President Kennedy was not proposing to try and fly airplanes to the moon. They developed technology for that purpose. The technology developed for roller coasters is not intended for the purpose of transporting people between distant points separated by several miles.

    Good questions above, Lazyboy, and I would add, what about rain? Florida has strong storms that can shut down outdoor coasters. Maybe there could be a Peoplemover type cover above riders or a roof above the whole track. (But no view-blocking walls or floors other than the track below and maybe an evacuation walkway to the side.)
    Even then, you would have to close during the presence of lightning, a process complicated by the length of a ride.

    Maybe there could be a storage car or two for strollers or wheelchairs. Or maybe some guests could stay in their chairs.
    You would need storage space for almost ever passenger, and it would have to be properly distributed.

  8. #8

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    Re: Transportation help 4 the S.ern part of WDW: Coasters & ?

    This is just a bad idea... I'm sorry. High speed PRT is the only logical option for WDW.
    -Bill

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    This is just a bad idea... I'm sorry. High speed PRT is the only logical option for WDW.
    Bill, I just Googled PRT (Personal Rapid Transit) and the photos looked cool! Like futuristic airport transportation. I wish they would do that--possibly having cars like those on Syndrome's island lair on "The Incredibles." But I don't think that will happen. Too $$$ for Iger and Staggs. They don't see how better transportation at WDW would be an attraction in itself. They like splurging on well-known animated or Superhero brands, and both are overly obsessed with the wrong technologies. That's where the money will go. WDW will decline, despite bumps for the new, moderately ambitious Fantasyland, and for the 50th anniversary in 2021. When it comes to theme parks and transportation systems, I expect them to play it safe--no Harry Potter Wizarding Worlds or PRTs. No attempt to show the world something mind-blowingly new. Certainly, no attempt to build "by far the coolest ride ever."

    Lazyboy, if you look at WDW aerial photos, the moderate resorts I suggested connecting to parks are close to them--not miles away. And is EPCOT's World Showcase MILES from the Studios? (The wooden Beast at King's Island is 7,357 feet long and the Steel Dragon in Japan is 8,133. A mile is 5,289 feet long.) I just want a smooth train--maybe a new kind of train without CMs. Or maybe do have one CM elevated on the back car to keep an eye on guests who might be tempted to toss/spit things on roads/cars below.

    It shouldn't be too slow though. In Mouse Tales, David Koenig writes, ". . .the People Mover has proven even deadlier. Its blazing avarage speed of two miles an hour and open-air cars are actually temptations to troublemakers." He describes a death that occurred on this ride, including this quote from a security officer, "I bent down, looked under the car and could see his head was right in two." (page 173 in Chapter 8, "Fatal Attractions.")
    Last edited by jcruise86; 05-29-2011 at 09:31 AM.

  10. #10

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    Re: Transportation help 4 the S.ern part of WDW: Coasters & ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    This is just a bad idea... I'm sorry. High speed PRT is the only logical option for WDW.
    There are no such things as bad ideas. Every idea has merits and shortcomings. I personally don't think an actual literal roller coaster transportation system would be feasible. However, I do think that some aspects of roller coaster manufacturing could be utilized to create a viable transportation system.

    An idea taken at face value may not work, but that does not mean the idea cannot lead to something else that would. There are no such things as bad ideas.
    In view, a humble vaudevillian veteran, cast vicariously as both victim and villain by the vicissitudes of fate.

    DoppelV

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    Quote Originally Posted by DoppelV View Post
    There are no such things as bad ideas. Every idea has merits and shortcomings. I personally don't think an actual literal roller coaster transportation system would be feasible. However, I do think that some aspects of roller coaster manufacturing could be utilized to create a viable transportation system.

    An idea taken at face value may not work, but that does not mean the idea cannot lead to something else that would. There are no such things as bad ideas.
    Thanks, DoppelV!

    I did conclude my long first post with: "Maybe what I'm proposing aren't really roller coasters, but inexpensive, fast, and fun trains able to ride over roads without CMs on board." Fun and innovative transportation could turn a liability (inconvenient d i s t a n c e) into an asset. At the Getty Museum in Brentwood, the parking building is at the bottom of a big hill, and the museum is at the top. A scenic (train?) ride not only transports visitors to the museum, but also away from their mundane cars.

  12. #12

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    Re: Transportation help 4 the S.ern part of WDW: Coasters & ?

    Quote Originally Posted by jcruise86 View Post
    Lazyboy, if you look at WDW aerial photos, the moderate resorts I suggested connecting to parks are close to them--not miles away. And is EPCOT's World Showcase MILES from the Studios? (The wooden Beast at King's Island is 7,357 feet long and the Steel Dragon in Japan is 8,133. A mile is 5,289 feet long.) I just want a smooth train--maybe a new kind of train without CMs. Or maybe do have one CM elevated on the back car to keep an eye on guests who might be tempted to toss/spit things on roads/cars below.
    If you did a straight shot "as the crow flies" between the entrance plaza of the Disney-MGM Studios and World Showcase, you get about 4,000 feet, but this length would be double so that the track and can circle back. You also proposed going over to Disney's Animal Kingdom, which would be nearly 2 miles each way. These numbers are also "as the crow flies" meaning they give no consideration to the design and experiences in their path. Yes, there are roller coasters over a mile in length, but they are still situated differently. For all the woods that surround Beast, it still has access roads below.

  13. #13

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    Re: Transportation help 4 the S.ern part of WDW: Coasters & ?

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    If you did a straight shot "as the crow flies" between the entrance plaza of the Disney-MGM Studios and World Showcase, you get about 4,000 feet, but this length would be double so that the track and can circle back. You also proposed going over to Disney's Animal Kingdom, which would be nearly 2 miles each way [to and from EPCOT]. . .
    It's not like trains have crossed continents. List all the requirements then let form follow function. Maybe start smaller with one or two of these I mentioned in the first post:

    "And three additional, far-shorter trains could link moderate resorts to (very) nearby parks as follows:
    1. Port Orleans connected to EPCOT. . .
    2. Coronado Springs to the Animal Kingdom.
    3. And the Caribbean Beach Resort to the Studios."

    "Obviously this might not even make a dent in the need for busses [and it would either need a "no stroller" rule or add a storage car, and it would not be for the entire family--sorry babies, toddles, and great grandpas with back problems who might sue], but connecting each of those moderate resorts to one park would make [the moderates] a little bit more attractive."

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by jcruise86 View Post
    It's not like trains have crossed continents. . .
    But coaster trains are not long-distance passenger trains.

    (Sigh to my annoying inner devil's advocate voice.) Again, they wouldn't be traditional roller coasters, but inexpensive, fast, and fun trains able to ride over roads (perhaps) without CMs on board.
    Last edited by jcruise86; 05-30-2011 at 10:07 AM.

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    Re: Transportation help 4 the S.ern part of WDW: Coasters & ?

    Quote Originally Posted by DoppelV View Post
    There are no such things as bad ideas.
    Oh really? Great! Then I guess my idea to have all the toilets in the Magic Kingdom dump into the water for "it's a small world" is a really good idea. Or to replace the current dolls with zombie-canibal like creatures. Or to hire Hans Zimmer to re-record the soundtrack... better yet, let's just keep Hans in there with a live orchestra. And put the whole thing in 3-D!!! Or we could just keep WDW closed 365 days a year and abandon the place.

    Yeah, it's like saying "everyone's special!" It's just another way of saying that no one is. Go watch The Incredibles.

    BTW, having said all this, you are correct about using roller coaster parts for other applications in transportation technology, but that has already been done. Look at any LIM or LSM based train. I just wanted to make you laugh. No hard feelings I hope.

    Now please excuse me while I get out my hazmat suit so I can go ride the new improved "it's a small world of cannibal demon zombie dolls 3-D" with Hans Zimmer and the London Symphony Orchestra. Now a "Green" attraction because it is also a water treatment facility. And supposedly they added "hidden" dolls that look like famous zombie movie stars like Nicholas Cage and Keanu Reeves. But don't worry, they say they'll blend in and not hurt the traditional ride experience.
    -Bill

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