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  1. #1

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    Hyperion Warf being retooled, and other canceled/ delayed WDW projects

    So it seems that things at WDW are in free fall when it comes to current management.

    The recent removal of concept art, and construction equipement at DTD points to the rumored fact that the long awaited remodel of PI has currently been canceled and is being retooled.

    Flamingo crossing has been canceled.

    The Four Seasons has been stalled.

    Golden Oak isn't selling very well.

    All the DHS projects that were on the road map have disappeared.

    Night Kingdom was canned.

    Project Gemini at Epcot was scrapped after the failure of Mission:Space to draw crowds.

    The Mine Coaster for the new FLE at MK is experience serious design flaws, that might lead to it be scrapped, or seriously paired down.

    Am I leaving anything off the list?
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    Re: Hyperion Warf being retooled, and other canceled/ delayed WDW projects

    Is that really the case of the Mine Coaster? I was figuring construction was being held off until the rest of Fantasyland Forest had progressed a little more.
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  3. #3

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    Re: Hyperion Warf being retooled, and other canceled/ delayed WDW projects

    Where are you getting this information? Just curious because it is the exact opposite of many credible insiders on this board and on Twitter.

  4. #4

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    Re: Hyperion Warf being retooled, and other canceled/ delayed WDW projects

    Quote Originally Posted by disneylandfan95 View Post
    Where are you getting this information? Just curious because it is the exact opposite of many credible insiders on this board and on Twitter.
    What information is incorrect. Just have friends all over orlando I talk to.
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  5. #5

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    Re: Hyperion Warf being retooled, and other canceled/ delayed WDW projects

    heh, get all the publicity about job creation for the DTD project and then quietly dismantle it.. classic

    no clue what the plans are as I haven't been paying any attention lately to whether so and so place had construction equipment anymore. but that would be funny =D

  6. #6

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    Re: Hyperion Warf being retooled, and other canceled/ delayed WDW projects

    Quote Originally Posted by KingEric View Post
    So it seems that things at WDW are in free fall when it comes to current management.

    The recent removal of concept art, and construction equipement at DTD points to the rumored fact that the long awaited remodel of PI has currently been canceled and is being retooled.

    Flamingo crossing has been canceled.

    The Four Seasons has been stalled.

    Golden Oak isn't selling very well.

    All the DHS projects that were on the road map have disappeared.

    Night Kingdom was canned.

    Project Gemini at Epcot was scrapped after the failure of Mission:Space to draw crowds.

    The Mine Coaster for the new FLE at MK is experience serious design flaws, that might lead to it be scrapped, or seriously paired down.

    Am I leaving anything off the list?
    I'm not the least bit surprised that Golden Oaks is turning out to be a flop. With all the problems going on at WDW, why invest anything in a luxury neighborhood in a theme park resort that isn't all that luxurious in itself?

    As disappointing as it is to see the possibility of the Mine Coaster getting canned, this might be a good thing. I'd rather see the project get canned and have the dark ride saved in favor of losing the dark ride for a coaster that may get downgraded to off-the-shelf level. Let's learn from the mistakes of DCA instead of repeating them here.

    But I guess it is good news to see Flamingo Crossings getting canceled. (Though I admit the project itself never really bothered me since it was technically located off-property anyway.) But really bad news about the DHS project expansion. Seriously if I could pick only one canceled project from that list to continue it would have to be that one because it is the one of greatest necessity at the moment.

    But what's Project Gemini? I thought that was just a fan project on here.

    Oh well, at least the Art of Animation Resort is still going on, right? Right?!
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  7. #7

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    Re: Hyperion Warf being retooled, and other canceled/ delayed WDW projects

    Art of Animation or POP Century the Golden Years finally going to get completed.

    I am not sure what is going on in the halls of TDO. The information that I randomly get from people I know always seems contradictory, and unsettling.

    I really want to see things that were proposed for DHS happen, so who knows.

    I mainly want PI and DTD to be fixed.
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    Re: Hyperion Warf being retooled, and other canceled/ delayed WDW projects

    Don't really know what most of this stuff is, but as far as the DHS thing, that's terrible. Does Disney really think they can just go around not caring for one of there parks and expect people to keep going back? You could pretty much have the exact same experience today as 10 years ago. Practically nothing has changed and it's falling to pieces.

    As for the Mine Cart ride, somehow I doubt it'll be scrapped. What would they put there then? With the rest of the expansion slowly coming together, they're going to HAVE to make a decision pretty soon on what to do with the space. And while I don't want the princesses to take over a former dark ride, I do believe that the mine cart ride will be a lot better than SWSA. I mean, it'll have the excitement factor for the teens, and the dark ride for kids. It's a win win IMO. And what design flaws could it possibly be experiencing? What they can't get their swaying carts to sway? Somehow I don't think that would stop anything.

  9. #9

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    Re: Hyperion Warf being retooled, and other canceled/ delayed WDW projects

    Quote Originally Posted by KingEric View Post
    So it seems that things at WDW are in free fall when it comes to current management.

    The recent removal of concept art, and construction equipement at DTD points to the rumored fact that the long awaited remodel of PI has currently been canceled and is being retooled.

    Flamingo crossing has been canceled.

    The Four Seasons has been stalled.

    Golden Oak isn't selling very well.

    All the DHS projects that were on the road map have disappeared.

    Night Kingdom was canned.

    Project Gemini at Epcot was scrapped after the failure of Mission:Space to draw crowds.

    The Mine Coaster for the new FLE at MK is experience serious design flaws, that might lead to it be scrapped, or seriously paired down.

    Am I leaving anything off the list?
    Ok while I agree with some of your arguments here for why its bad there are so many dropped or paused projects at WDW some of them aren't really true arguments. I totally agree that many dropped designs that bring our hopes up and then get dropped or are bellow par is unacceptable but some of these points aren't really true.

    Flamingo crossing was a bad idea in my opinion anyways, all it would have turned out to be was some over priced shopping (i.e. DTD, add some more stores in and voila all that could have been expected from FC minus a grocery or convenience of some kind), time shares (i.e. DVC), and a hotel which disney has PLENTY of.

    Four seasons is stalled but again there are so many hotels in the area including new deluxe options off site like the Ritz Carlton. Four seasons not being constructed isn't a big deal.

    Golden Oaks isnt getting canceled its just not selling well, that has nothing to do with management it just means people aren't buying. On another note last I heard they were selling up fast, this is the first ive heard that they've had problems selling.

    I'm not sure they were even on the road map in the first place. yes this area needs additions but i think it has been more people making hints and rumors then actually corporate putting a project on the road map and taking it off. We will never really be able to confirm or deny this one and DHS should have had a lot of work done by now so I'll give it to you.

    Night Kingdom was canned I think more because its a transportation nightmare. You have a huge pile of people trying to get to one small island with mid size resort boats as the only mode of transportation. Then where do you drop off these drunk people that were just partying the night away? you would have to build a whole new dock or drop them off at TTC with all the kiddies from MK, a toxic mix. Hopefully they resolve it somehow and bring the idea back though.

    Mission Space actually drew a lot of crowds, but like all attractions after a while it wont draw as many people as the day it opened. This attraction goes through 1600 people an hour at maximum capacity and STILL has 30 minute waits on average. That's gotta show it draws some fairly large crowds. Project Gemini was scrapped because it meant the company spending a lot of money in a bad economic time, which is still a problem but a whole different problem all together, not Mission Space's fault.

    I've actually heard nothing of this at all so I cant really comment on that but I highly doubt they would scrap the project at this point they need to put something in the giant empty space.

    I also highly doubt that they are going to cancel the new DTD project, thats just jumping to conclusions at this point.

    ---------- Post added 07-10-2011 at 10:47 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Stitch626626 View Post
    As for the Mine Cart ride, somehow I doubt it'll be scrapped. What would they put there then? With the rest of the expansion slowly coming together, they're going to HAVE to make a decision pretty soon on what to do with the space. And while I don't want the princesses to take over a former dark ride, I do believe that the mine cart ride will be a lot better than SWSA. I mean, it'll have the excitement factor for the teens, and the dark ride for kids. It's a win win IMO. And what design flaws could it possibly be experiencing? What they can't get their swaying carts to sway? Somehow I don't think that would stop anything.
    I agree, the only reason they arent doing the Mine cart right now is because dumbo is currently in the way and needs to be removed so the walls can be extended further and they can begin construction. Disney has the projects designed and technology tested years in advance in some cases, these imagineers don't just sit on their hands and do nothing all day. Any design flaws will not at all be major and the project will be fine. No offence to king Eric as he is one of my favorite posters on the site but lets not jump to a lot of conclusions because a lot of that seems to happen throughout the forum.

  10. #10

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    Re: Hyperion Warf being retooled, and other canceled/ delayed WDW projects

    Quote Originally Posted by goofy donald View Post
    Four seasons is stalled but again there are so many hotels in the area including new deluxe options off site like the Ritz Carlton. Four seasons not being constructed isn't a big deal.

    Golden Oaks isnt getting canceled its just not selling well, that has nothing to do with management it just means people aren't buying. On another note last I heard they were selling up fast, this is the first ive heard that they've had problems selling.
    Four Seasons is big because of the second point as well.. these two projects were attached at the hip so to speak.

    They speak to management because they pushed forward a high profile project that was ill conceived.. in either not hitting their target audience or mis-identifying the target audience. I think it's a bit of the later myself.. most of the 'high brow' multi-million dollar vacation home owners aren't your pin laynard types. And unlike many other types of vacation homes, these wouldn't be rentals. It also reflects on management (as several of these projects do) in their lust to develop additional footprint of the property to find growth vs. growing and improving the core product.

    Flamingo Crossing.. Golden Oaks.. and these other are all poor efforts to become property developers vs. being focused on being a world class destination resort.. which is what the execs should be focused on.

    Quote Originally Posted by goofy donald View Post
    Mission Space actually drew a lot of crowds, but like all attractions after a while it wont draw as many people as the day it opened. This attraction goes through 1600 people an hour at maximum capacity and STILL has 30 minute waits on average. That's gotta show it draws some fairly large crowds
    I think M:S has been seen to be a letdown because it hasn't become that anchor attraction that draws people to the resort like it should have. It's dwarfed by the clone Soarin' and Test Track. It was an aggressive risky attraction that (in large part IMO due to the bad press) has probably proven itself to be too aggressive and it's prominence both inside and outside the parks has suffered because of it. Let's face it.. ToT and Soarin' are far more popular and accessible even though M:S in many ways is far more detailed, advanced, engaging, and unique. It's not always is the 'better' product the more successful product.

    Quote Originally Posted by goofy donald View Post
    agree, the only reason they arent doing the Mine cart right now is because dumbo is currently in the way and needs to be removed so the walls can be extended further and they can begin construction
    Ignoring any design challenges Disney may be having with the attraction (I'm still perplexed by the rides footprint myself) I think this attraction is doomed from the start in terms of expectations for it being all over the place. Is it like the barnstormer? Or is it more like crush? Or is it more like BTMRR? You find people with all kinds of confusion about it. But given the footprint.. I don't see how it can be any but a kiddie coaster at best. I think that will really disappoint people.

    I don't know of specific issues with the plans for it... but I think what they've said about it vs what people think they've heard about it is a stink bomb waiting to go off.

    When you walk the property.. there is just so little space there.. and yes there is more when you look at it from above.. but I'm really skeptical of it being anything even up to crush's implementation.
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  11. #11

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    Re: Hyperion Warf being retooled, and other canceled/ delayed WDW projects

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    Four Seasons is big because of the second point as well.. these two projects were attached at the hip so to speak.

    They speak to management because they pushed forward a high profile project that was ill conceived.. in either not hitting their target audience or mis-identifying the target audience. I think it's a bit of the later myself.. most of the 'high brow' multi-million dollar vacation home owners aren't your pin laynard types. And unlike many other types of vacation homes, these wouldn't be rentals. It also reflects on management (as several of these projects do) in their lust to develop additional footprint of the property to find growth vs. growing and improving the core product.

    Flamingo Crossing.. Golden Oaks.. and these other are all poor efforts to become property developers vs. being focused on being a world class destination resort.. which is what the execs should be focused on.



    I think M:S has been seen to be a letdown because it hasn't become that anchor attraction that draws people to the resort like it should have. It's dwarfed by the clone Soarin' and Test Track. It was an aggressive risky attraction that (in large part IMO due to the bad press) has probably proven itself to be too aggressive and it's prominence both inside and outside the parks has suffered because of it. Let's face it.. ToT and Soarin' are far more popular and accessible even though M:S in many ways is far more detailed, advanced, engaging, and unique. It's not always is the 'better' product the more successful product.



    Ignoring any design challenges Disney may be having with the attraction (I'm still perplexed by the rides footprint myself) I think this attraction is doomed from the start in terms of expectations for it being all over the place. Is it like the barnstormer? Or is it more like crush? Or is it more like BTMRR? You find people with all kinds of confusion about it. But given the footprint.. I don't see how it can be any but a kiddie coaster at best. I think that will really disappoint people.

    I don't know of specific issues with the plans for it... but I think what they've said about it vs what people think they've heard about it is a stink bomb waiting to go off.

    When you walk the property.. there is just so little space there.. and yes there is more when you look at it from above.. but I'm really skeptical of it being anything even up to crush's implementation.
    As much as i still find it very skeptical the Golden Oaks homes are having trouble selling, I have to say you make a very valid point. They should be focused on their disney product, disney resorts, shops, and DVCs not outsourcing to other companies and as you said simply adding to the foot print. Adding for the sake of adding, especially nothing that will better the resort is not the Disney way. At least however we can say they corrected most of the problem by only going through with GO as opposed to the other two projects which I would have had more of a problem with.

    See I still don't believe that's true. I think a lot of people believe that because it doesn't have as long a wait as TT and Soarin it doesn't draw as many people to the park when in fact that is quite false. That's equal to saying Haunted Mansion is a disappointment because lines are longer at Peter Pan and Dumbo, it just has a much, much higher capacity. If you looked at the numbers you would most likely see the ridership of Mission Space is equal to or greater then both of the other Epcot big attractions.

    Well I never think the ride was ever advertised as anymore then a kiddie coaster to begin with. The main problem here is that Disney was in such a rush to say "hey look at all the cool new stuff were adding" before they were able to iron out the specifics. When you leave projects that ambiguous, people are going to dream as big as they can and this leads to let downs when the project is finally created. the final product they do create though, I feel will be halfway between crush and BTMRR. With the implementation of the new ride system and the new experience and adding dark ride sections with AA's, it will make the experience more exciting then you expect.

  12. #12

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    Re: Hyperion Warf being retooled, and other canceled/ delayed WDW projects

    Lee at WDWmagic described the Dwarf coaster as between Barnstormer and Big Thunder in terms of thrills. Take that how you will. I don't see it getting canceled personally. It'll be a major blow to the Fantasland expansion IMO.

  13. #13

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    Re: Hyperion Warf being retooled, and other canceled/ delayed WDW projects

    Quote Originally Posted by KingEric View Post
    So it seems that things at WDW are in free fall when it comes to current management.

    The recent removal of concept art, and construction equipement at DTD points to the rumored fact that the long awaited remodel of PI has currently been canceled and is being retooled.

    "Rumored fact" Oxymoron?

    Ok, more seriously.

    Most of the list is really not surprising. I am not surprised that Disney hasn't been able to get enough interest from retailers, Food & Beverage operators, and "value" Lodging companies to continue to move forward with Flamingo Crossings and Hyperion Wharf. Personally I think the released Hyperion Wharf details (if you could even call them details) were released in Disney's hopes that it would gain the attention of perspective retail and food and beverage operators. The mini press event / release and the pretty artist concepts seem to have failed to do that. And so yes, you seem Hyperion Wharf, AKA Disney's "Bold new vision in family entertainment" being retooled yet again.

    As for Golden Oak, this is really Four Seasons dragging its feet.

    DHS projects, Night Kingdom, and Project Gemini were for the most part, all Blue Sky concepts that, like most blue sky concepts, don't get the green light. That's normal really.

    The mine Coaster seems to still be ago. Its pictures are still up everywhere on those construction walls in Fantasyland. Additionally Disney said it would be phase two. I think New Fantasyland phase one will open with green construction walls 360 degrees around the Mine Coaster site. But that coaster will open a year or so later give or take a few months.


    Disney has described the mine coaster as between Barnstormer and BTMRR. Someone said Crush's coaster and BTMRR..... Well Crush is well more intense then barnstorm, I believe the expectation that it is between Crush and BTMRR is just way too high an expectation to have. Given the physical area the coaster has to be within, I translate Disney's own statement as yes, bigger then barnstormer, but still 100% kiddie and MUCH less then BTMRR.

    After all Disney could have used Primeval Whirl and BTMRR as the "in between" points. They did not use Primeval Whirl as the low point of reference for the Thrill factor, they used Barnstormer. I think there is a reason for that. Hopefully the mine coaster would be middle ground, but really I am expecting to be far closer to Barnstormer then to BTMRR.
    Last edited by Kidgenie; 07-11-2011 at 01:30 AM.

  14. #14

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    Re: Hyperion Warf being retooled, and other canceled/ delayed WDW projects

    The original plans for the FLE called for only the addition of a TLM clone which they could easily plan inside and out. So yeah it would make sense that the Mine Coaster's construction problems were due to rushing the ride into production without thinking or planning it out. I did have my concerns as to where the coaster was going to be located (since it would be in the middle FL and in a spot that was formally two meet n greet areas). Supposed if it was more further back in the FL area, it might've worked. They should've shift TLM over to where the Toontown/Circus tents are and take out Belle's village and quite possibly they would've had room for the coaster in the middle of that part of the land.

    I still would like to see WDW someday build it's own luxury resort (of the non-DVC variety) more on the level of Tokyo's Hotel Miracosta. This would be far more preferable than going to third party hotel chains. The Grand Floridian has pretty much downgraded itself to being less luxurious and just being a super-nice Disney hotel.
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  15. #15

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    Re: Hyperion Warf being retooled, and other canceled/ delayed WDW projects

    Quote Originally Posted by Kidgenie View Post
    Most of the list is really not surprising. I am not surprised that Disney hasn't been able to get enough interest from retailers, Food & Beverage operators, and "value" Lodging companies to continue to move forward with Flamingo Crossings and Hyperion Wharf. Personally I think the released Hyperion Wharf details (if you could even call them details) were released in Disney's hopes that it would gain the attention of perspective retail and food and beverage operators. The mini press event / release and the pretty artist concepts seem to have failed to do that. And so yes, you seem Hyperion Wharf, AKA Disney's "Bold new vision in family entertainment" being retooled yet again.

    As for Golden Oak, this is really Four Seasons dragging its feet.

    DHS projects, Night Kingdom, and Project Gemini were for the most part, all Blue Sky concepts that, like most blue sky concepts, don't get the green light. That's normal really.

    The mine Coaster seems to still be ago. Its pictures are still up everywhere on those construction walls in Fantasyland. Additionally Disney said it would be phase two. I think New Fantasyland phase one will open with green construction walls 360 degrees around the Mine Coaster site. But that coaster will open a year or so later give or take a few months.
    Disney has described the mine coaster as between Barnstormer and BTMRR. Someone said Crush's coaster and BTMRR..... Well Crush is well more intense then barnstorm, I believe the expectation that it is between Crush and BTMRR is just way too high an expectation to have. Given the physical area the coaster has to be within, I translate Disney's own statement as yes, bigger then barnstormer, but still 100% kiddie and MUCH less then BTMRR. After all Disney could have used Primeval Whirl and BTMRR as the "in between" points. They did not use Primeval Whirl as the low point of reference for the Thrill factor, they used Barnstormer. I think there is a reason for that. Hopefully the mine coaster would be middle ground, but really I am expecting to be far closer to Barnstormer then to BTMRR.
    I'm not entirely sure that's whats occurring to HW, concept art coming down has no relevance to the actual design's progress. You cant jump to conclusions and say because they took down some posters the whole project is under scrutiny and retooling, that's just silly. I don't think that the fact their finding it hard to fill retail spots should be surprising to anyone at all though. they weren't even filling the spaces they already had. Fact of the matter is you cant retool a mall when the mall has no new retail, but i don't think they will have a problem in the end and investors will surely take the spaces eventually. this just takes time. As for Flamingo Crossing, I don't think finding people was the issue at all, a boss just took a double look and realized how bad the idea was and nixed it.

    Four seasons is dragging its feet because the Bonnet Creek resort area with the big new hilton and one of the finest hotels in Orlando the new Waldorf Astoria (which i had the pleasure of staying in recently and LOVEEDDDDDDD ) beat them to the punch right down the road and now there is absolutely 0 chance they can compete, I doubt you will see them around at all. BTW again cant say enough about the WA, without a question THE #1 non disney hotel in the Orlando area BAR-NONE.

    Totally agree with this, unless Disney announces their actually doing something its just a rumor. You cant take anything as fact unless they actually say its happening, so dont get upset wen u hear this exciting rumor from a "very reliable source" and find out its not going to occur.

    Well the one point at the end isn't really fair. you cant make a comparison with primeval whirl because its a totally different type of coaster. the unfortunate thing is that Disney really doesn't have that many coasters to compare with so it still leaves the project pretty undefined. the one thing we know for certain is that it will not be an E-ticket, we knew that all along and it wont be a short little 30 second slow coaster like barnstormer. where it will fit in between the two? no one knows, but my opinion is that it will be closer to the e-ticket side of things simply because of the new tech that I think will add tremendously to the experience I also think it will be a lot longer then everyone seems to believe it will be. i have a sneaking suspicion u might sea it poking out more and more towards dumbo's old turf with the removal of all those planters that occurred recently.

    ---------- Post added 07-11-2011 at 02:32 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by toonaspie View Post
    I still would like to see WDW someday build it's own luxury resort (of the non-DVC variety) more on the level of Tokyo's Hotel Miracosta. This would be far more preferable than going to third party hotel chains. The Grand Floridian has pretty much downgraded itself to being less luxurious and just being a super-nice Disney hotel.
    They already got beaten to the punch by off property resorts. The Ritz Carleton is a short drive away in the sea world hotel area, and the Waldorf Astoria is right across the road from the Caribbean beach resort at the Bonnet Creek resort area, you really cant get any fancier then that.

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