View Poll Results: Original idea vs. Avatar

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  • Avatar

    36 26.28%
  • Original

    91 66.42%
  • Don't know

    10 7.30%
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  1. #31

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    Re: Original idea vs. Avatar poll

    Voted for original, I would have loved to have seen a Beastly Kingdom even remotely like the concept art. It would have broader appeal and longer legs since it would reference famous animals/creatures of mythology that have stood the test of time. Avatar could end up a flash in the pan in comparison, but we'll see...

  2. #32

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    Re: Original idea vs. Avatar poll

    Quote Originally Posted by biggsworth View Post
    I think it will draw a lot of people. Just comparing the film success to the 8 Harry Potter films shows i'ts a popular franchise wit more more movies on the way. As far as merchandising goes Avatar is pretty weak at the moment but I could see that being a strong seller inside the parks as well with the way DAK merchandises it's products and the tie ins to conservations.

    Avatar Box office $2,782,275,172

    Harry Potter Box office Total (8 films):
    $7,701,234,647

    numbers are from the two films wiki pages
    Its been proven on the other thread that those box office numbers are severely inflated due to imax and 3D charges along with ever rising ticket prices and sold near the average amount of tickets for a big summer movie. Nothing really noteworthy when you look at the actual amount of tickets sold. If you look at potter's figures it wouldn't be close.

    ---------- Post added 09-24-2011 at 08:25 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Aladdin6592 View Post
    People who honestly think Avatar won't be a HUGE draw don't understand the magnitude of this deal. As biggsworth posted, Avatar brought in more than a fourth of the money that the entire Harry Potter franchise made in one film. Many people are right that the draw was the effects and the mindblowing visuals but don't you guys see that that is exactly what the draw will be here as well? People are going to say, "Man, those visuals were amazing cinematically, imagine what it's like in real life." Pandora/Avatar land is going to bring in a huge amount of people. Whether or not the draw will be as big as WWoHP remains to be seen, but if you honestly think the numbers at WDW will remain the same after this land's opening, then...well I don't even know what to tell you.
    And you should know better after all the evidence that has been presented to you then to talk about the box office returns because they have been proven by many people to be largely inflated. Obviously its going to draw some people because its new at first, but you only get small draws that die over time when you focus on visuals and effects. Movies that connect with their audience AND produce a solid theme park experience win long term draws and big merchandising dollars ect. In those cases fancy effects dont matter as much as the guest identifying with the characters along with the scenes and memorable lines. Avatar just hasnt done that.

  3. #33

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    Re: Original idea vs. Avatar poll

    That's such a failed argument that doesn't hold. Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows: Part II offered IMAX 3D showings and still brought in a billion less than Avatar did...so the whole "inflated numbers due to 3D prices" point is completely moot. I will admit that Avatar suffers in the merchandising department in comparison to Harry Potter though.

  4. #34

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    Re: Original idea vs. Avatar poll

    Quote Originally Posted by ttintagel View Post
    If they've suddenly got money to burn, why not spend it on things they've been saying they can't afford? Beastly Kingdom, anyone? How about bringing some of the amazing stuff from the Tokyo parks stateside?
    How about spending some of the money to maintain the stateside parks to Tokyo standards before building *anything* new?

  5. #35

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    Re: Original idea vs. Avatar poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Aladdin6592 View Post
    That's such a failed argument that doesn't hold. Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows: Part II offered IMAX 3D showings and still brought in a billion less than Avatar did...so the whole "inflated numbers due to 3D prices" point is completely moot. I will admit that Avatar suffers in the merchandising department in comparison to Harry Potter though.
    Again that's just not true though. the entire argument is based around the fact that Avatar is a novelty and the novelty is wearing off so therefore it would make sense that less people would feel the need to pay extra for 3D on future films. The percentage of people that saw Avatar in 3D or IMAX vs potter differentiates by close to 50 percentage points so i think that argument is rather moot. I have done all the math clearly in the other thread as you saw and it came out to roughly 270 million tickets sold. to give you some comparisons for other movies on the list of highest all time gross behind Avatar:

    Titanic: approx. 401,568,904 tickets
    Jurassic Park: approx. 220,939,883 tickets
    ET: approx. 269,697,467
    Harry Potter and the Philosophers Stone: approx. 200,067,983 tickets

    There are many other movies I can list that are in the same ballpark but we would be here for a while. Fact is that Avatar wasn't as spectacular as people claim it to be. no doubt it was successful in the moment and no ones saying it was a flop by any stretch. Its staying power and merchandising however has been its true connection with the public however and so far that connection is ZERO. It has completely disappeared from the pop culture universe and I don't really think that's a point to be argued but rather a fact. The true test for this series is if they can turn things around with the second film and actually engage people so they remember the franchise for a long time. Cameron did it with Titanic before hopefully he can do it again or else this land will not draw the numbers you claim it will, plain and simple.

  6. #36

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    Re: Original idea vs. Avatar poll

    I think too many of the parkgoers won't have a clue what Avatar is. Let's face it, most of the people Disney is trying to bring in are families, most of who have younger kids. A ten year old is not going to know what Avatar is because they haven't seen it. Disney needs to make something that is going to appeal to a larger portion of their fan base, not a larger portion of the population. There are people who love Avatar but have never seen a Disney movie and therefore have no desire to go to Disney World, reguardless if there's AvatarLand there or not. Plus, Animal Kingdom's lands are educational in some ways. What is educational about Avatar? Beastly Kingdom at least would teach kids about mythology in an interactive way, which would help them more than learning about blue aliens from a fictious planet.
    With that all said, I would have rather seen this money used to make improvements in the parks first. Or create a better Toontown so we can have that back.

  7. #37

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    Re: Original idea vs. Avatar poll

    A genius business move? I don't think so. While personally I thought Avatar was a good movie, most of the "eye poping" stuff was in the dark. So the new land will be inside a building....the whole thing?

    Also, how are they to know Avatar is going to have any staying power? 10 years down the road is it still going to be as popular as HM, PoC, and Splash? Weren't they counting on the "Nardia" series to be their HP? So much for that idea. I'll bet HP at universal won't be much populated in 5 years. It was big while the movie hipe was still out there, but with no more movies to fuel it, it will be forgotten. We have been watching Star Wars movies since the late 70's, HP is just a flash in the pan.

    The attractions that have that staying power are NOT based on a movie or some other fleeting thing introduced into society. The ones that stay like "Matterhorn" "PoC", "Space Mountain" and HM are all attractions that the Disney Imagineers took an element of something be it a movie, show, what ever and ran with it. Building something that started with a bit from one thing but grew into its own thing.

    With the economy the way it is investors are not going to let a bunch of Imagineers "run with it" on their money.

  8. #38

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    Re: Original idea vs. Avatar poll

    Quote Originally Posted by maddogjoe View Post
    A genius business move? I don't think so. While personally I thought Avatar was a good movie, most of the "eye poping" stuff was in the dark. So the new land will be inside a building....the whole thing?

    Also, how are they to know Avatar is going to have any staying power? 10 years down the road is it still going to be as popular as HM, PoC, and Splash? Weren't they counting on the "Nardia" series to be their HP? So much for that idea. I'll bet HP at universal won't be much populated in 5 years. It was big while the movie hipe was still out there, but with no more movies to fuel it, it will be forgotten. We have been watching Star Wars movies since the late 70's, HP is just a flash in the pan.

    The attractions that have that staying power are NOT based on a movie or some other fleeting thing introduced into society. The ones that stay like "Matterhorn" "PoC", "Space Mountain" and HM are all attractions that the Disney Imagineers took an element of something be it a movie, show, what ever and ran with it. Building something that started with a bit from one thing but grew into its own thing.

    With the economy the way it is investors are not going to let a bunch of Imagineers "run with it" on their money.
    See don't agree with this though, I think you took things a little to far to the extreme. I really don't see Harry Potter as just a flash in the pan, it has a very dedicated fan base, high merchandising, multi-faceted entertainment ect. and is on the same level of franchises like star wars. However I do agree with your views on Avatar, I just dont see it having the staying power as of right now, my opinion might change after the next two movies but as of right now its not even close.

    Just to close, the economic issues are a, on an upturn currently not a downturn and b, this issue does not affect Disney's development as they have made more major purchases and installments in their parks durring recession then they have in years of their existence.

  9. #39

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    Re: Original idea vs. Avatar poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Dapper Dan View Post
    It will bring in a large amount of people when it's new and shiny. Most things like this do. The real unknown is if this theme will hold up over time or if the company will have to drop another large some of money a decade down the line to halfheartedly re-theme the area to something else.

    When I first heard about this, I was hoping that they were just buying up the rights to Avatar just so nobody else would get them.
    It wouldn't hold for more then a decade. Unless Cameron starts making 5 sequels/prequels each two years to keep his franchise alive it's gonna be outdated faster the CoP.

  10. #40

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    Re: Original idea vs. Avatar poll

    Quote Originally Posted by goofy donald View Post
    Its been proven on the other thread that those box office numbers are severely inflated due to imax and 3D charges along with ever rising ticket prices and sold near the average amount of tickets for a big summer movie. Nothing really noteworthy when you look at the actual amount of tickets sold. If you look at potter's figures it wouldn't be close.

    ---------- Post added 09-24-2011 at 08:25 AM ----------



    And you should know better after all the evidence that has been presented to you then to talk about the box office returns because they have been proven by many people to be largely inflated. Obviously its going to draw some people because its new at first, but you only get small draws that die over time when you focus on visuals and effects. Movies that connect with their audience AND produce a solid theme park experience win long term draws and big merchandising dollars ect. In those cases fancy effects dont matter as much as the guest identifying with the characters along with the scenes and memorable lines. Avatar just hasn't done that.
    I don't buy the inflation thing for movies in the last 10 years. When you talk Titanic versus Casa Blanca sure. First Harry Potter come out in 2001 last one this year. Avatar came out in 2009. Last three Harry potters came out from 2009-2011 offered 3D and IMAX. So the last three harry potters potters benefit a lot more than poor avatar n 2009. For all I know the first 5 harry potters could have been in IMAX I didn't bother to look. So if you could do me a favor and go convert it all for me you can relay it back to me and then i'll look at the numbers. All I am pointing out is people obviously want to see Avatar. It was very strong in ticket sales. It will generate excitement and after watching it again last night I think Pandora the planet will be a great edition to DAK. I can't wait to see how James Cameron and Disney do it.

  11. #41

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    Re: Original idea vs. Avatar poll

    Quote Originally Posted by biggsworth View Post
    I don't buy the inflation thing for movies in the last 10 years. When you talk Titanic versus Casa Blanca sure. First Harry Potter come out in 2001 last one this year. Avatar came out in 2009. Last three Harry potters came out from 2009-2011 offered 3D and IMAX. So the last three harry potters potters benefit a lot more than poor avatar n 2009. For all I know the first 5 harry potters could have been in IMAX I didn't bother to look. So if you could do me a favor and go convert it all for me you can relay it back to me and then i'll look at the numbers. All I am pointing out is people obviously want to see Avatar. It was very strong in ticket sales. It will generate excitement and after watching it again last night I think Pandora the planet will be a great edition to DAK. I can't wait to see how James Cameron and Disney do it.
    Well its kind of a fact lol. the average ticket price has increased a lot over 10 years you can check it out in a quick google search. I'm not saying other movies aren't offering 3D and or IMAX but what made this situation with Avatar much different is that a much higher percentage of people saw it in those formats then was the case with other films. In some cases its over a 50% difference. Avatar was the first film to suggest its almost mandatory to watch in a higher format then regular movies and that's where this movie's inflation comes from. Obviously people wanted to see the movie, nobody is questioning that. The question is will they be drawn to WDW specifically because of this new land in the numbers being expected by some on this site and in the boardrooms? I don't think so, not even close. Anything new will generate some form of excitement, but Avatar just doesn't have the staying power unfortunately and it will fade from the pop culture universe shortly after its construction and the last movie has left the theaters.

  12. #42

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    Re: Original idea vs. Avatar poll

    i dont licke the idea of haveing avtur land
    I have a problem with dyslexia, but if you will please bear with me, I would love to participate in the conversations here at MiceChat. Thanks for your understanding! - Matthttp://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo[URL=http://www.youtube.com/user/MrDisneylandfan4ever?feature=mhumfeature=mhum#p/u"]http://www.youtube.com/user/matt4mickey123?feature=mhum#p/u[/U- Mattșoș șoș șoș șoș șoș șoș șoș șoș șoș șoș șoș șoș șoș șoș șoș șoș șoș șoș șoș șoș șoș șoș șoș șoș șoș șoș șoș șoș șoș șoș șoș șoș șoș șo[disneyland repctive of the wedsday show dca eathen brithday 282 by mickeyfan4ever1234, on Flickr

  13. #43

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    Re: Original idea vs. Avatar poll

    Quote Originally Posted by goofy donald View Post
    Well its kind of a fact lol. the average ticket price has increased a lot over 10 years you can check it out in a quick google search. I'm not saying other movies aren't offering 3D and or IMAX but what made this situation with Avatar much different is that a much higher percentage of people saw it in those formats then was the case with other films. In some cases its over a 50% difference. Avatar was the first film to suggest its almost mandatory to watch in a higher format then regular movies and that's where this movie's inflation comes from. Obviously people wanted to see the movie, nobody is questioning that. The question is will they be drawn to WDW specifically because of this new land in the numbers being expected by some on this site and in the boardrooms? I don't think so, not even close. Anything new will generate some form of excitement, but Avatar just doesn't have the staying power unfortunately and it will fade from the pop culture universe shortly after its construction and the last movie has left the theaters.
    Ok i googled it Avatar is showing at number 14 on the site below. The point is mute though really I think the world of pandora will fit in nicely at DAK and I am sure they will create it's own story within the park much like the other lands do...minus DinoLand USA of course.

    All Time Box Office Adjusted for Ticket Price Inflation

  14. #44

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    Re: Original idea vs. Avatar poll

    Quote Originally Posted by goofy donald View Post
    Again that's just not true though. the entire argument is based around the fact that Avatar is a novelty and the novelty is wearing off so therefore it would make sense that less people would feel the need to pay extra for 3D on future films. The percentage of people that saw Avatar in 3D or IMAX vs potter differentiates by close to 50 percentage points so i think that argument is rather moot. I have done all the math clearly in the other thread as you saw and it came out to roughly 270 million tickets sold. to give you some comparisons for other movies on the list of highest all time gross behind Avatar:

    Titanic: approx. 401,568,904 tickets
    Jurassic Park: approx. 220,939,883 tickets
    ET: approx. 269,697,467
    Harry Potter and the Philosophers Stone: approx. 200,067,983 tickets
    The novelty is wearing off? No it's not. Avatar changed the 3D move scene forever. You guys must differentiate the difference between a movie that is shot in 3D and one that is converted to 3D in post production. Avatar shot in 3D which is why the 3D was absolutely breathtaking. If film makers take the time and had the patience to shoot the film in 3D, then there wouldn't be such bad feelings toward it. However, a lot of film makers and studios choose to post-convert to stretch out their margin of profit.

    And your argument for tickets sold doesn't really hold water. Less and less people are seeing movies due to the rise in ticket prices. If Titanic, ET, or Jurassic Park were released today, it's doubtful they would have seen that amount. Albeit it's likely they would've made more than Avatar. But I'm not arguing about whether or not Avatar was relatively more successful than Titanic, Jurassic Park, ET or even the first Harry Potter. My argument was that Avatar made more money than any Harry potter movie ever. You can't make arguments for inflation in favor of either Deathly Hallows film considering Avatar came out before either. And if you argue that it was due to IMAX and 3D ticketing, that doesn't hold either since the most recent Potter offered both.

  15. #45

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    Re: Original idea vs. Avatar poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Aladdin6592 View Post
    The novelty is wearing off? No it's not. Avatar changed the 3D move scene forever. You guys must differentiate the difference between a movie that is shot in 3D and one that is converted to 3D in post production. Avatar shot in 3D which is why the 3D was absolutely breathtaking. If film makers take the time and had the patience to shoot the film in 3D, then there wouldn't be such bad feelings toward it. However, a lot of film makers and studios choose to post-convert to stretch out their margin of profit.

    And your argument for tickets sold doesn't really hold water. Less and less people are seeing movies due to the rise in ticket prices. If Titanic, ET, or Jurassic Park were released today, it's doubtful they would have seen that amount. Albeit it's likely they would've made more than Avatar. But I'm not arguing about whether or not Avatar was relatively more successful than Titanic, Jurassic Park, ET or even the first Harry Potter. My argument was that Avatar made more money than any Harry potter movie ever. You can't make arguments for inflation in favor of either Deathly Hallows film considering Avatar came out before either. And if you argue that it was due to IMAX and 3D ticketing, that doesn't hold either since the most recent Potter offered both.
    The only reason I am even comparing HP to Avatar is because of what HP did to Orlando. I just feel it will have the same effect at DAK and of course that is what the Disney execs are hoping for A truly immersesive pandora will be sweet at least for me I guess lol

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