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  1. #151

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    Re: Holy cow, WDW's Magic Kingdom is Horrible! (Compared to Disneyland Park)

    Quote Originally Posted by MickeyMania
    WDW1974 has brought up some points in previous threads about the whole resort going downhill although in this thread there's been less good points and more smarther-than-thou stroking about how if we don't agree with him on it all, we're clueless sheep who like McDonald's and don't recognize the quality of a steak served to us by Emeril or some such.
    I'm not trying to prove my intellectual superiority over anyone in this thread. If that's how I'm coming off, you're misreading the intent.

    FWIW, I often crave a Big Mac and fries. But I also do recognize that my meal at the California Grill is a whole lot higher quality, and better for my health.

    At the same time, I'll admit it. I do think people in general (not WDW fans in particular) are often sheep. They follow the pack. They accept whatever they are given and told. That's my view of humanity right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by MickeyMania
    Although as a non-visitor thus far I recognize that I can't speak with any kind of authority on the subject so I don't, but it's hard to deny how difficult it is to debate the quality of something with someone who insists that they are a better judge of quality than you.
    See, that just kind of proves my point about experience and perspective (and again this could apply to anything in life). I never said I'm a better judge of quality than you or anyone else. BUT, as a non-visitor how can you possibly have the experience to make an educated argument that I have? It would be like me arguing the inner workings of a car with a repairman because I've seen cars, I've driven cars, I've even opened a hood once or twice.


    Quote Originally Posted by MickeyMania
    Personally, I've noticed that it's the people who see the place often who begin feeling that something is missing while most Once Ever (x) Years folks like myself need something major to happen (like an obvious mechanical failure in an attraction) to feel more than passively impacted by it. Familiarity breeds contempt. Maybe Disney needs to go back to making it nigh-impossible for people who aren't employees and aren't very wealthy to be able to visit the parks regularly.
    I hate the familiarity breeds contempt excuse. No matter how you explain that it makes it seem like my views (or the views of anyone familiar with the WDW experience/product) are somehow biased against it because we're there so often.

    I was there often in 70s and 80s and early 90s when the place was damn near perfect (actually more often from around 1986-1994 than today) yet I didn't see almost anything wrong ... ever. How do you explain that?

    Disney conditioned me to expect the best because they always delivered it AND THEN SOME! In the past decade, Disney has SADLY conditioned me to expect to see dirty parks, empty shops, cheap replacement attractions, unkempt/unhappy CMs etc ... again, I don't see how this is my fault.

    The problem isn't that I've changed. It's that Disney has ... profoundly and not for the better.

  2. #152

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    Re: Holy cow, WDW's Magic Kingdom is Horrible! (Compared to Disneyland Park)

    Quote Originally Posted by WDW1974
    I hate the familiarity breeds contempt excuse. No matter how you explain that it makes it seem like my views (or the views of anyone familiar with the WDW experience/product) are somehow biased against it because we're there so often.

    I was there often in 70s and 80s and early 90s when the place was damn near perfect (actually more often from around 1986-1994 than today) yet I didn't see almost anything wrong ... ever. How do you explain that?

    Disney conditioned me to expect the best because they always delivered it AND THEN SOME! In the past decade, Disney has SADLY conditioned me to expect to see dirty parks, empty shops, cheap replacement attractions, unkempt/unhappy CMs etc ... again, I don't see how this is my fault.

    The problem isn't that I've changed. It's that Disney has ... profoundly and not for the better.
    There's so much about this I want to say "Jaein" to (you know, German for ja and nein at the same time).

    1. Disney has changed. Yes. Unequivocably.
    2. Familiarity DOES breed contempt. Unequivocably.
    3. Life stage matters, as does your macro life. If you visited while younger and loved everything, maybe your life was good. If you visited more while slightly older and loved most things, maybe your "other life" contributed to you not sowing the contempt that comes with familiarity. And so on until the present day.

    The difficulty is knowing exactly WHERE to draw the line. Each of us draws the line in a different spot. Yes Disney has changed but also yes we notice it more because we visit often. WHERE IS THE LINE? Unfortunately, I might even think of it as a movable target not only from person to person, but also WITHIN each person over time, so this gets real complicated real fast.

    All that said, even the one-day, once a year visitors now think Disney has changed. So that "line" is visible even to those who have no familiarity (unless you want to argue that our whole culture has become one of cynicism). So Disney does have its work cut out for it.
    Kevin Yee
    MiceAge Columnist

    I am the author of several Disney books:
    Jason's Disneyland Almanac - a daily history of Disneyland
    Walt Disney World Hidden History - tributes, homages, and ride remnants at WDW
    Your Day at the Magic Kingdom
    Mouse Trap
    Tokyo Disney Made Easy
    101 Things You Never Knew About Disneyland
    Magic Quizdom (The Disneyland Trivia Book)

    “The press [should be] a watchdog. Not an attack dog. Not a lapdog. A watchdog. Now, a watchdog can't be right all the time. He doesn't bark only when he sees or smells something that's dangerous. A good watchdog barks at things that are suspicious.” – Dan Rather

  3. #153

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    Re: Holy cow, WDW's Magic Kingdom is Horrible! (Compared to Disneyland Park)

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinYee
    There's so much about this I want to say "Jaein" to (you know, German for ja and nein at the same time).

    1. Disney has changed. Yes. Unequivocably.
    2. Familiarity DOES breed contempt. Unequivocably.
    3. Life stage matters, as does your macro life. If you visited while younger and loved everything, maybe your life was good. If you visited more while slightly older and loved most things, maybe your "other life" contributed to you not sowing the contempt that comes with familiarity. And so on until the present day.

    The difficulty is knowing exactly WHERE to draw the line. Each of us draws the line in a different spot. Yes Disney has changed but also yes we notice it more because we visit often. WHERE IS THE LINE? Unfortunately, I might even think of it as a movable target not only from person to person, but also WITHIN each person over time, so this gets real complicated real fast.

    All that said, even the one-day, once a year visitors now think Disney has changed. So that "line" is visible even to those who have no familiarity (unless you want to argue that our whole culture has become one of cynicism). So Disney does have its work cut out for it.
    OK, Kevin, I do understand where you are going ... but again ... I strongly feel your argument places way too much responsibility on guests.

    If I go to the MK once and see a dirty bathroom or six, and just chalk it up to people being pigs 'and it's really busy today' vs. if I visit the MK 26 days this year and see dirty bathrooms on 22 of those visits, it seems that you're saying it will bother me more because I'm there more. Am I right? If so, I agree.

    BUT again how is this a reflection on the thoughts of the individual vs. the fact Disney has cut down on maintenance and it shows? So, yeah, the more you're there, the more you're going to notice.

    But yet again, it doesn't change the facts that things weren't like that before. I may have been -- well I was -- in a different place in life (actually a lot of places) in the 70s, 80s and early 90s, but the one universal was every time I went to WDW I got an incredible experience with clean, well-maintained parks, attractions that were open and had their effects all working, shopped in shops with all kinds of merchandise (much of it, high quality) instead of generic character crap, had parks that were open late into the night for all guests, had lots of entertainment offerings other than meet-and-greets, had CMs that were all outstanding and didn't appear slovenly and disinterested,stayed in amazing resorts that were clean and carried the Disney theming and were worth every penny I paid for them, ate in restaurants where quality was more important than what can we cut out to shrink the size/quality and pad the profit margin etc ...

    Again, Kevin, when you start looking at it like that, you'll see holes in your theory. Heck, when day visitors are noticing things like you mentioned, you do realize that the Disney experience isn't what it once was and they do have a lot of work ahead to undo all the damage that a decade of thinking only of money has caused.

    Have I changed over the decades? Yes. And I'd like to think for the better (mostly).

    Has WDW changed for the better? No. And I can argue that point until next Christmas!

  4. #154

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    Re: Holy cow, WDW's Magic Kingdom is Horrible! (Compared to Disneyland Park)

    Quote Originally Posted by MickeyMania
    Oh boy, I can tell where this thread is going, and it's not going to make me very optimistic about my trip and all that it's costing me. *veers way*

    DL has it's own share of problems. I wonder whether some opinions are really a matter of comparing the devil you know to a devil you don't. I can't possibly imagine WDW being so bad.
    Don't worry. It's not. It's a bigger park than DL with fewer attractions, so more space is devoted to gardens and wider pathways. There are also more restaurants, including one inside the castle. I recommend the Liberty Tree Tavern for lunch! A sit down with a colonial atmosphere... very relaxing break with very good food. Some to the "missing" attractions are found in the other 3 theme parks, and one of the so-called "attractions" at DL, the monorail, is used for actual transportation purposes between MK and EPCOT. You'll have a good time, do not despair.

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