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  1. #16

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    Re: Holy cow, WDW's Magic Kingdom is Horrible! (Compared to Disneyland Park)

    Well, normally I'd agree, since I've only been to Disneyland Resort four times... granted they were for about 4 or 5 days each, but only four times. But I'm one of the few who looks at every tiny detail in the park. I notice when the same music is playing. I notice the different style of trash cans. I notice the peeling paint and the cracked sidewalks. I notice the lighting and the changes that occured since I was last there.

    It is entirely true that Disneyland Park has gone way up in the past five years. It's also true that the Magic Kingdom has gone down for the last ten years. It's not just in terms of park upkeep, it's also in terms of the Cast Members. Wether you like it or not, Matt's idea for the attendance policy for CMs in Disneyland has worked wonders. The only ones left are the ones who care about the park and are happy on a daily basis. Hardly the ones that will call in sick weekly and be snoody to guests daily.

    The point is, right now, Disney World will hire ANYONE to work. And since WDW is on an older CDS that doesn't require as much attendance as DL's system, the CMs don't seem to care as much in various places. It's a noticeable difference. And you don't get these crazy excuses from CMs about "ruining the magic" over at Disneyland. They use their common sense over in Disneyland, something that is just not present as much in the MK. The upkeep of the parks is a tad better in DL. But that is not the main difference. Disneyland Park has about twice as many attractions that the Magic Kingdom Park has. And the repeats are almost always better over in Disneyland. Not because it is the original, but because they are being updated left and right there. The theming is better, and the park just looks amazing at night, moreso than WDW's Magic Kingdom.

  2. #17

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    Re: Holy cow, WDW's Magic Kingdom is Horrible! (Compared to Disneyland Park)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill
    It is entirely true that Disneyland Park has gone way up in the past five years. It's also true that the Magic Kingdom has gone down for the last ten years...
    I think it's important to note that DL park has NOT gone up in quality over the last five years. It actually spent 4 of them going steadily downward, both in upkeep and in quality of attractions and stores. It's only in the last year or so that the tide has turned, and DL park is now looking like it should have looked all along.

  3. #18

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    Re: Holy cow, WDW's Magic Kingdom is Horrible! (Compared to Disneyland Park)

    Ah, I guess that's just my observation... I was there 5 years ago, so for me, it could have happened anytime in those 5 years. But DL looks better than it did five years ago, that's for certain.

  4. #19

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    Re: Holy cow, WDW's Magic Kingdom is Horrible! (Compared to Disneyland Park)

    Quote Originally Posted by WDW1974
    WDW guests are a different breed, a less discerning (overall) clientele that allows the product to be diluted and dumbed down under the guise of 'bigger is better.'
    You always have a knack of perfectly capturing the thoughts I'm trying to put on paper but just can't formulate I love it.

  5. #20

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    Re: Holy cow, WDW's Magic Kingdom is Horrible! (Compared to Disneyland Park)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill
    Wether you like it or not, Matt's idea for the attendance policy for CMs in Disneyland has worked wonders. The only ones left are the ones who care about the park and are happy on a daily basis. Hardly the ones that will call in sick weekly and be snoody to guests daily.
    And yet isn't Disneyland currently faced with a huge shortness of employees? So short that they have to have resorted to come-work-for-DL carts in Downtown Disney (which ironically can't be staffed because of the shortness). Does Disneyland not have to close for capacity often just because they are shortstaffed? I would hardly say the system worked wonders for DL.

    -Michael
    “You can design and create, and build the most wonderful place in the world. But it takes people to make the dream a reality.” - Walt Disney

  6. #21

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    Re: Holy cow, WDW's Magic Kingdom is Horrible! (Compared to Disneyland Park)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill
    Wether you like it or not, Matt's idea for the attendance policy for CMs in Disneyland has worked wonders. The only ones left are the ones who care about the park and are happy on a daily basis.
    Happy? Have you seen the venting that goes on in these forums over the policy?

    You should keep in mind that essentially what you're saying is that the people who are left are willing to deal with miserable working conditions because they love Disneyland so much. That comes from the fact that DL is a huge influcence on southern California's culture. WDW is still too new to have the nostalgia-fueled fandom that DL does.

    DL has a huge fan club locally, and corporate uses (and sometimes abuses) the easy drawing of people who are so excited to work for Disney that they'll bend over backwards for the same peanut they'd make at Burger King. Perhaps, in the next ten years or so, WDW will have that kind of a following, too. But I don't think it'll be big enough to supply all the jobs in the World.

    As it is, Disneyland will hire anyone, too, so long as they don't ask to be paid more than minimum wage and will always show up when told to. Orange County in CA has a low unemployment and DL has uncompetitive wages, so the whole park is running on a skeleton crew of people who love the magic so much that they'll put up with it. It's certainly not the norm for DL.

  7. #22

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    Re: Holy cow, WDW's Magic Kingdom is Horrible! (Compared to Disneyland Park)

    Quote Originally Posted by danyoung
    While I'll agree that DL park is in much better shape these days as a result of the purse strings opening up in preparation for the 50th, I just don't buy that the MK is in any way rundown or lame or shabby. I was just there a couple weeks ago, and I enjoyed my time wandering around, riding rides, seeing a great 3D movie, eating a terrific lunch at the Liberty Tree Tavern. I wasn't specifically looking for bad paint or trash or broken stuff, and I didn't find any of that. Those who go there daily or weekly might have a different standard. But for me, the biannual visitor, the MK is still in great shape.
    Dan, I'm almost afraid to rip you ... but ... nah ... I will anyway.

    I wouldn't describe the MK as rundown or shabby, although if you compare it to DL (and TDL, I'm sure), you could. I was just there a month ago and I did everything you say you did ... and enjoyed them all ... even if I was very ticked off that LTT has eliminated the great rolls and apple butter in favor of serving NOTHING pre-meal (in an absurd cost-cutting move by the local manager, no doubt).

    But when I went I did see bad paint, even on Main Street, which was completely repainted in the past few years. Trash was all over the place, as it is, nightly when they have SpectroMagic and Wishes as they don't clean up between the two anymore instead letting the garbage sit on the ground (worst area is near the Hub and bridges) until the park closes. And broken stuff? Did you ride Mansion? How about Splash Mtn? Buzz Lightyear?

    I think you're not biannual as much as bianal, need new bifocals or simply so happy to be in your happy place that you'd need a piece of the TTA to fall on your head for you to notice anything was askiew. Not that there's anything wrong with that as I've said many times. I just am a keen observer. And on the trash end, it's impossible to miss unless you lucked out and were there on a better-than-average day.
    Last edited by WDW1974; 12-16-2005 at 07:11 PM.

  8. #23

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    Re: Holy cow, WDW's Magic Kingdom is Horrible! (Compared to Disneyland Park)

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinYee
    I'm beginning the believe it has something to do with your first point of fixation. I have a someday-article on this topic, but in brief:

    - If you grow up going to Disneyland a lot (more than 12 visits a year), you will find the flaws there hard to overlook.
    - If you grow up going to MK a lot (more than 12 visits a year), you will find the flaws in this park hard to overlook.

    If you then travel to the "other" park, no matter which one is the "other" for you, then you will find the flaws easier to overlook.

    I worked at Disneyland for ten years and then spent five years prominently pointing out the upkeep problems online. I think I can safely say that I spot peeling paint and so on pretty well.

    Yet, at WDW, it's harder for me to spot the moments of neglect, and when I do spot them, it's easier to forgive them. They don't blemish the way they did at Disneyland. I visit twice a week now, and have done so for two years, so it can't be that I'm still new to the park.

    Conclusion: I think it must have to do with your "home" park.

    Needless to say, tourists forgive a lot of things. I learned back in the 80s that what seemed pristine as a tourist was often dirty, peeling paint... even in those days of the pre-Pressler regime. So that whole element has to be added in here too.
    You may have something with that theory, Kevin. But I'm an APer at both WDW and DL and visit at least one a month or two. I grew up in Florida, was at opening day for both EPCOT Center and Disney-MGM Studios (missed DAK's opening by a week) and was in my early 20s before I ever set foot in DL. I was also at DCA's opening day.

    Still, I can point out the flaws in any of the parks and resorts. I notice things equally. I simply see worse at WDW, and I feel many people do too but overlook it due to the sheer size of WDW.

    It's very easy to simply say it's a matter of what park came first. I think it goes a bit deeper than that.

    Maybe you should go on a quality-control walk with myself and/or TDLFAN, you might be surprised at what you find that was right in front of you all the time.

    The MK is a pale shadow of what it was in 1975, 1985 or even 1995 when it comes to quality, upkeep, show and cast quality. It just isn't the same place. Neither is EPCOT Center, which has been made much smaller, much dumber and the mess that is the Studios. Only DAK remains largely the park it was at opening.

  9. #24

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    Re: Holy cow, WDW's Magic Kingdom is Horrible! (Compared to Disneyland Park)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill
    Well, normally I'd agree, since I've only been to Disneyland Resort four times... granted they were for about 4 or 5 days each, but only four times. But I'm one of the few who looks at every tiny detail in the park. I notice when the same music is playing. I notice the different style of trash cans. I notice the peeling paint and the cracked sidewalks. I notice the lighting and the changes that occured since I was last there.

    It is entirely true that Disneyland Park has gone way up in the past five years. It's also true that the Magic Kingdom has gone down for the last ten years. It's not just in terms of park upkeep, it's also in terms of the Cast Members. Wether you like it or not, Matt's idea for the attendance policy for CMs in Disneyland has worked wonders. The only ones left are the ones who care about the park and are happy on a daily basis. Hardly the ones that will call in sick weekly and be snoody to guests daily.

    The point is, right now, Disney World will hire ANYONE to work. And since WDW is on an older CDS that doesn't require as much attendance as DL's system, the CMs don't seem to care as much in various places. It's a noticeable difference. And you don't get these crazy excuses from CMs about "ruining the magic" over at Disneyland. They use their common sense over in Disneyland, something that is just not present as much in the MK. The upkeep of the parks is a tad better in DL. But that is not the main difference. Disneyland Park has about twice as many attractions that the Magic Kingdom Park has. And the repeats are almost always better over in Disneyland. Not because it is the original, but because they are being updated left and right there. The theming is better, and the park just looks amazing at night, moreso than WDW's Magic Kingdom.
    Great post.

  10. #25

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    Re: Holy cow, WDW's Magic Kingdom is Horrible! (Compared to Disneyland Park)

    Quote Originally Posted by danyoung
    I think it's important to note that DL park has NOT gone up in quality over the last five years. It actually spent 4 of them going steadily downward, both in upkeep and in quality of attractions and stores. It's only in the last year or so that the tide has turned, and DL park is now looking like it should have looked all along.
    Not sure how to respond to this as I agree and disagree at the same time.

    I certainly think as far as upkeep that DL was dropping steadily until the evil Queen Cynthia was banished to The Gap in 2003 but has risen rapidly since. But as for the quality of attractions and stores, since 2000 DL has added Pooh (a negative), but added Mansion Holiday, Buzz Lightyear, new Space Mountain, four different and excellent fireworks shows, three new parades, ToT, Playhouse Disney (negative), Bug's Land (mixed), the DL Story, soon Monsters Inc. ... Stores are still better than MK, but way too much bland character merchandise. Just try and find one Frontierland-themed item in either park. It ain't easy. But you still have more unique stuff than the MK where every shop sells the same stuff.

    So I don't think it was a straight line upward in quality, I think DL has trended that way since 2000 with rapid improvement over the past 24 months.

  11. #26

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    Re: Holy cow, WDW's Magic Kingdom is Horrible! (Compared to Disneyland Park)

    Quote Originally Posted by SpectroMan
    You always have a knack of perfectly capturing the thoughts I'm trying to put on paper but just can't formulate I love it.
    Stop it. You'll only encourage me!


  12. #27

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    Re: Holy cow, WDW's Magic Kingdom is Horrible! (Compared to Disneyland Park)

    Quote Originally Posted by askmike1
    And yet isn't Disneyland currently faced with a huge shortness of employees? So short that they have to have resorted to come-work-for-DL carts in Downtown Disney (which ironically can't be staffed because of the shortness). Does Disneyland not have to close for capacity often just because they are shortstaffed? I would hardly say the system worked wonders for DL.

    -Michael
    They do have shortages, largely because they are weeding out CMs who have operated under the most liberal attendance policy of any major company I've ever seen. Read Al's columns on the subject. The Cynthia era TDA policies were crazy. You could literally blow off shifts for days at a time before you'd even get a first warning.

    But no, DL has not closed recently because of staffing, but because of the huge crowds.

  13. #28

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    Re: Holy cow, WDW's Magic Kingdom is Horrible! (Compared to Disneyland Park)

    Quote Originally Posted by WDW1974
    Maybe you should go on a quality-control walk with myself and/or TDLFAN, you might be surprised at what you find that was right in front of you all the time.
    I'm not sure you caught the full flavor of my post. Let me get less modest: I'm an expert at spotting this stuff. That you may find things I don't see is actually *helping* my theory.

    In other words, I could easily do that to you for Disneyland, too, because it's my "home" park.

    I'm not trying to say Disneyland doesn't look great. It does. It looks better in 2005 than it did in 2000.

    But I *am* saying that there is no such thing as "noticing things equally." You're just not admitting your bias
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  14. #29

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    Re: Holy cow, WDW's Magic Kingdom is Horrible! (Compared to Disneyland Park)

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinYee
    I'm not sure you caught the full flavor of my post. Let me get less modest: I'm an expert at spotting this stuff. That you may find things I don't see is actually *helping* my theory.

    In other words, I could easily do that to you for Disneyland, too, because it's my "home" park.

    I'm not trying to say Disneyland doesn't look great. It does. It looks better in 2005 than it did in 2000.

    But I *am* saying that there is no such thing as "noticing things equally." You're just not admitting your bias
    Less modest ... does that mean you had to undress to post that? (OK, here comes that smiley so no one misconstrues what should obviously be a blatant infantile joke)

    Kevin, I think I do get your point. My point is that while WDW was always my home Disney experience, now I spend an equal amount of time at DL, so I don't feel I have a real bias (there's certainly some there.)

    As the MK, in many ways it also looks better aesthetcically in 2005 than it did in 2000 or 2002. But if you grade it on other aspects from cleanliness to attention to detail to quality of CMs, it's much worse.

  15. #30

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    Re: Holy cow, WDW's Magic Kingdom is Horrible! (Compared to Disneyland Park)

    Quote Originally Posted by WDW1974
    Read Al's columns on the subject. The Cynthia era TDA policies were crazy. You could literally blow off shifts for days at a time before you'd even get a first warning.
    I have read Al's columns on this, and if I remember correctly, he basically ripped apart the new system (as most people are doing).

    But no, DL has not closed recently because of staffing, but because of the huge crowds.
    Are you sure about that. I seem to remember someone (maybe forum members or Al) saying that Disneyland closed in large part due to staffing. Less staff=lower park capacity.
    “You can design and create, and build the most wonderful place in the world. But it takes people to make the dream a reality.” - Walt Disney

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