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  1. #76

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    Re: Holy cow, WDW's Magic Kingdom is Horrible! (Compared to Disneyland Park)

    So, my friend WDW1974, in your response to me you said -

    Do you actually think I'd visit WDW or DL as much as I do if I didn't love the places?
    Yet in your response to SummerInFL you say -

    Disney used to strive for perfection, and always came damn close to achieving it. Not anymore. It's about money, not magic. It's about fooling the guests with marketing magic instead of producing real magin in too many instances.
    Now, I know you well enough to know that you mean both things. But when all someone hears is the second comment, is it any wonder that there is a feeling that you're needlessly coming on like a truckload of turkeys? I don't know, there just seems to be such anger and passion in your negativity. Maybe it's just cuz you're an ol' curmudgeon, like me!

    On the other hand, Summer, I really don't get you. Are you new to online forums? Are you unfamiliar with the sometimes combative nature of online forums? Is it impossible for you to imagine that someone could love a place while passionately speaking out for its totally avoidable decline in quality?

    Speak your mind, as we all do. But to say that the discussion disgusts you? Then please go somewhere else and don't read this one.

  2. #77

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    Re: Holy cow, WDW's Magic Kingdom is Horrible! (Compared to Disneyland Park)

    Quote Originally Posted by WDW1974
    Oh Mikey, I think I'm gonna puke.

    Do you really believe everything you write?
    Oh give me a break. So a made it a little too cheesy. Do you think that I say "and a little more magic in my heart" on a regular basis? I meant what I said, but just made it extra corny.

    and you blow off others' opinions when they have far more perspective than you do.
    One person can't have more perspective on an opinion. If I say that the Empire State Building is big, and you say "no, there are tons of taller buildings in the world. I remember a time when they kept building bigger and bigger........" I would still think it's big. My opinions are not right and neither are anyone elses. We have different opinions because of our different outlooks and generations. I love this Disney, you don't. It is entirely plausible (and very likely) that I wouldn't have liked the Disney of the 70s & 80s.

    Is this MGM studios were talking about? Because there fantasmic is not the original, or superior in any way... Unless your being sarcastic and I'm just to small minded to get it...
    I believe he was talking about DL's Fantasmic.

    Finally, let me say that liked SummerInFL's post. Here she is trying to tell everyone to appreciate things as they are (because one day, they may not be there) and everyone b***hes on it.

    -Michael
    “You can design and create, and build the most wonderful place in the world. But it takes people to make the dream a reality.” - Walt Disney

  3. #78

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    Re: Holy cow, WDW's Magic Kingdom is Horrible! (Compared to Disneyland Park)

    On the other hand, Summer, I really don't get you. Are you new to online forums? Are you unfamiliar with the sometimes combative nature of online forums? Is it impossible for you to imagine that someone could love a place while passionately speaking out for its totally avoidable decline in quality?
    To answer your questions:

    No. No. No, I just think that sometimes people can be a little to critical and expect to much.


    Quote Originally Posted by askmike1
    Finally, let me say that liked SummerInFL's post. Here she is trying to tell everyone to appreciate things as they are (because one day, they may not be there) and everyone b***hes on it.

    -Michael
    What he said. Thanks Mike.

    Yes I was disgusted by the posts but not because you were discussing what was declining in the parks but because you turned it into a my park is better than your park discussion. That was the part that disgusted me.

    Disney used to strive for perfection, and always came damn close to achieving it. Not anymore. It's about money, not magic. It's about fooling the guests with marketing magic instead of producing real magin in too many instances.
    This must be something only you see because I can think of at least 5 moments this year that we went to WDW and a CM/character etc.. did something to make it magical for us.

    But as a stockholder, Disney fan and media observer, I have every right to point out whatever I wish to. You see, I still believe in the Disney Legacy of quality.

    And I'm sorry if you're one of the people who can't handle the truth and take things personally. Like someone is attacking you personally because something at WDW isn't right and it bothers them. But maybe you're right, after all, most people in this country don't have a clue as to what's actually happening in the world from Iraq to US jobs to bankrupcy laws to the (anti) Patriot Act.
    There is really nothing I can say here without attacking you personally I just hope you find some peace in your life and you don't allow things to get to you so much. Have a magical day back at ya.

  4. #79

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    Re: Holy cow, WDW's Magic Kingdom is Horrible! (Compared to Disneyland Park)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Eggz
    Uggh, I take a break from MiceChat for a few months and I come back to see you guys are arguing over DL v WDW again. As a former WDW Cast member and a current resident of SoCal I know both places rather well. In an effort to keep this discussion productive, I'd like to share a different POV on the argument above.

    Yes, DL is the better one-day experience. That shouldn't be too surprising. For 46 years it was the only Disney Park in town and received the best attractions Imagineering could come up with (and during that time there was an Imagineering to speak of). DL being a local park has a loyal fan following that notices when the quality wanes and makes a stink when it does. Now DL has a president who listens to such things. But DL still has a money problem called DCA and that financial black hole is still sucking all the big profits out of DLR. So Cast Members are paid less than is reasonable, stores close early and basically DL is in a huge financial quagmire that fresh paint can not fix.

    WDW is a destination resort and as such it does not have a local fan base that can see the declining quality. But it does have a few observant folks (many of whom post here) who have noticed a real decline in the past 10 years. These people are a leading-edge indicator of how the public will react as this decline continues. Notice I say "as" and not "if" because there is no sign of a change in policy any time soon.

    Both resorts have real problems, and personally I admire those who point them out in an intelligent, thoughtful manner. Because it does make a difference. The recent cosmetic improvements to DL prove it.
    Welcome back, Mr. Eggz. Your perspective was missed.

    And I can't disagree with what you said.

  5. #80

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    Re: Holy cow, WDW's Magic Kingdom is Horrible! (Compared to Disneyland Park)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rosso11
    Well WDW1974 I made a phone call for you since my really good friend is the manager at Liberty Tree Tavern. I was told that the apple butter and rolls, as well as cranberry sauce is still there by request. So, anytime your in just ask your waitress. They'll gladly fill your request.
    Thanks. Is your friend a 35-40ish dude with a mustache? He was the suit working the day I last dined there.

    But you might want to tell him that simply having something available on request is a cop-out. There was nothing to state that. No reason to believe it. No waitress asked if we wanted them. We just ordered, waited 10 minutes and our entrees were there. I walked around and there weren't rolls on any table.

    It's a tacky way to save money. I would have no problem if they asked if you wanted them before putting them out, like some restaurants do to save water. But to not offer them and not mention it on the menu and by server means no one could possibly know unless they complained.

    And who wants to complain at WDW? (insert sarcastic smilie)

  6. #81

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    Re: Holy cow, WDW's Magic Kingdom is Horrible! (Compared to Disneyland Park)

    Quote Originally Posted by MickeyMania
    A trait only outmatched by your overwhelming modesty.

    Neat smilie trick ... but as Mark Twain says in the American Adventure ''I was born modest, but thankfully it wore off.''

  7. #82

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    Re: Holy cow, WDW's Magic Kingdom is Horrible! (Compared to Disneyland Park)

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan-500
    Is this MGM studios were talking about? Because there fantasmic is not the original, or superior in any way... Unless your being sarcastic and I'm just to small minded to get it...
    No, you misunderstood.

    What I was saying is DCA has all those elements of the Studios and DL has the original Fantasmic so you aren't missing much (other than the Great Movie Ride) by skipping that park.

  8. #83

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    Re: Holy cow, WDW's Magic Kingdom is Horrible! (Compared to Disneyland Park)

    From my second favorite Texan:

    <<So, my friend WDW1974, in your response to me you said -


    Quote:
    Do you actually think I'd visit WDW or DL as much as I do if I didn't love the places?

    Yet in your response to SummerInFL you say -


    Quote:
    Disney used to strive for perfection, and always came damn close to achieving it. Not anymore. It's about money, not magic. It's about fooling the guests with marketing magic instead of producing real magin in too many instances.

    Now, I know you well enough to know that you mean both things. But when all someone hears is the second comment, is it any wonder that there is a feeling that you're needlessly coming on like a truckload of turkeys? I don't know, there just seems to be such anger and passion in your negativity. Maybe it's just cuz you're an ol' curmudgeon, like me! >>

    Dan, I'm passionate about life in general, and the things I love (yes, WDW is definitely one of them) in particular. And it's not my job to dumb down my rhetoric because some people choose to only read the negative. If people truly read my posts and discuss things with me, they'll likely be quite surprised by what they find. But I'm not changing how I write. It's part of me. And I know I'm an effective communicator.

    <<On the other hand, Summer, I really don't get you. Are you new to online forums? Are you unfamiliar with the sometimes combative nature of online forums? Is it impossible for you to imagine that someone could love a place while passionately speaking out for its totally avoidable decline in quality?

    Speak your mind, as we all do. But to say that the discussion disgusts you? Then please go somewhere else and don't read this one.>>

    I can't speak for Summer. But you nailed my opinion on the head. I can't stand it when someone enters a discussion mid-stream and then rips the people having it because they don't like the subject.

  9. #84

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    Re: Holy cow, WDW's Magic Kingdom is Horrible! (Compared to Disneyland Park)

    Quote Originally Posted by SummerInFL
    To answer your questions:

    No. No. No, I just think that sometimes people can be a little to critical and expect to much.
    And I just think that often times people can be a little (or a lot) too forgiving and allow the dumbing down of our American society to continue in the big picture ... and the WaltMarting of WDW to keep things on topic here. I don't like people that live to find fault in the work/endeavors of others. But I also don't like people that blindly accept less than they should with a shrug of the shoulders and a 'that's just the way things are, I'm going to make the best of it' attitude.

    Quote Originally Posted by SummerInFL
    Yes I was disgusted by the posts but not because you were discussing what was declining in the parks but because you turned it into a my park is better than your park discussion. That was the part that disgusted me.
    Well, I think that's a ridiculous reason to be 'disgusted.' FWIW, I consider both the MK and DL to be my home parks. I love them both. But I feel the MK is really fading under bad management. I also feel I get more real Disney magic for my buck at DL.


    Quote Originally Posted by SummerInFL
    This must be something only you see because I can think of at least 5 moments this year that we went to WDW and a CM/character etc.. did something to make it magical for us.
    I never said I didn't have great experiences with CMs in Orlando, some that were truly extraordinary. What I said was right now WDW is largely marketing 'the magic' instead of creating it.

    Quote Originally Posted by SummerInFL
    There is really nothing I can say here without attacking you personally I just hope you find some peace in your life and you don't allow things to get to you so much. Have a magical day back at ya.
    That's funny. Peace in life isn't an easy thing, hence my love for Disney as an escape. When Disney standards start to drop, as they have, to real world levels, I don't intend to just accept it.

  10. #85

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    Re: Holy cow, WDW's Magic Kingdom is Horrible! (Compared to Disneyland Park)

    I can't believe I am still reading this thread (or contributing to it). There are as many reasons for liking one "Disney" over the other as there are visitors to both. And I feel fortunate to have visited both.

    To be sure you understand my perspective, I will admit to only two trips to WDW (1999 and 2000, both in summer), yet I have visited Disneyland about once a year since it opened. I will be going to WDW again next October.

    About the time of our first visit to WDW, I felt like I had seen everything Disney had to offer in California, and it had gotten a little stale. Yet we headed straight for MK as soon as we got settled in our "cabin" at Fort Wilderness. Talk about deja vu. The MK was strangely familiar yet not quite the same. Some things were missing, some out of place, others totally new. Yet it was fun exploring and noting the differences. Our first meal was at Cosmic Ray's, and the Tomorrowland was a mix of attractions long gone from Disneyland and others that never were. And that was just the beginning. But I'll go on.

    Epcot became my favorite park at WDW. There is nothing like it. Sure, there were a couple of familiar attractions, but the whole of the place was simply amazing. Disney MGM and AK both turned out to be pretty interesting. Our teenage sons spent some time at the water parks and Disney Quest, but DW and I never made it there. We had a fabulous dinner at California Grill (my older son's 17th birthday) and we even had a character meal at Liberty Tree.

    We liked WDW so much that we sprung for a Disney Cruise the following summer and extended the WDW portion to a full week at the Beach Club. That place is heaven to stay if you love Epcot. (That also gave us more frequent access to Disney MGM.)

    But the funny thing was, after we returned to California, I had a renewed interest in Disneyland. The old familiar places seemed fresh again, and when DCA opened, it was cool to visit a couple of new favorites from WDW, along with Soarin'. And DCA had a certain spaciousness and newness that reminded me of the WDW parks.

    So how do I feel now? WDW and DLR are two very different sides of the same coin. I love the expansiveness of WDW as much as the compactness of DLR. I love that DLR is "close" (a day's drive) and familiar and that WDW is far away and exotic. Each posesses strengths and weaknesses that the other doesn't have. Walt may have walked in Disneyland, but his spirit dwells in Florida as well.

    Aren't we lucky to have them both and to be able to argue over which is better? As far as I'm concerned, there are no losers here.

  11. #86

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    Re: Holy cow, WDW's Magic Kingdom is Horrible! (Compared to Disneyland Park)

    Quote Originally Posted by askmike1
    One person can't have more perspective on an opinion. If I say that the Empire State Building is big, and you say "no, there are tons of taller buildings in the world. I remember a time when they kept building bigger and bigger........" I would still think it's big. My opinions are not right and neither are anyone elses. We have different opinions because of our different outlooks and generations. I love this Disney, you don't. It is entirely plausible (and very likely) that I wouldn't have liked the Disney of the 70s & 80s.
    Wow... you miss a lot. When someone has "more perspective on an opinion", it simply means that they have a larger view or are more experienced or have a larger frame of reference for a subject. How can you be so utterly opinionated and yet not know this, or understand what he meant?? It doesn't lend much credence to your statements, thats for sure.

    Sorry, but... geesh. You can puff up your chest while behind your keyboard all you want, but your statements speak for themselves, and tell a lot about you. You're obviously an intelligent kid, but don't let arrogance and inexperience get in the way of actual wisdom.

  12. #87

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    Re: Holy cow, WDW's Magic Kingdom is Horrible! (Compared to Disneyland Park)

    Quote Originally Posted by SummerInFL
    I just think that sometimes people can be a little to critical and expect to much.
    On this I think we can mostly agree, with this caveat - when Disney in years past sets the bar so high, and then gradually lowers it in recent years, it becomes easy to expect too much, and to be disappointed by what is actually offered. But as I said, I try not to let this observation color my vacations.

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    Smile Re: Holy cow, WDW's Magic Kingdom is Horrible! (Compared to Disneyland Park)

    Quote Originally Posted by WDW1974
    Thanks. Is your friend a 35-40ish dude with a mustache? He was the suit working the day I last dined there.
    No, thats definitly not her. But I'm going to pass your coment directly to her because I agree with what your saying and hopefully she can make the change.

  14. #89

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    Re: Holy cow, WDW's Magic Kingdom is Horrible! (Compared to Disneyland Park)

    Quote Originally Posted by Trekkie Dad
    To be sure you understand my perspective, I will admit to only two trips to WDW (1999 and 2000, both in summer), yet I have visited Disneyland about once a year since it opened. I will be going to WDW again next October.
    That's fine! Glad to have another perspective!
    Quote Originally Posted by Trekkie Dad
    About the time of our first visit to WDW, I felt like I had seen everything Disney had to offer in California, and it had gotten a little stale. Yet we headed straight for MK as soon as we got settled in our "cabin" at Fort Wilderness. Talk about deja vu. The MK was strangely familiar yet not quite the same. Some things were missing, some out of place, others totally new. Yet it was fun exploring and noting the differences. Our first meal was at Cosmic Ray's, and the Tomorrowland was a mix of attractions long gone from Disneyland and others that never were. And that was just the beginning. But I'll go on.
    Well, the first visit is always the one that gets you in awe of everything here... but just by looking at a map of the Magic Kingdom you should be able to notice that the Magic Kingdom Park has less to offer than Disneyland Park.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trekkie Dad
    Epcot became my favorite park at WDW. There is nothing like it. Sure, there were a couple of familiar attractions, but the whole of the place was simply amazing. Disney MGM and AK both turned out to be pretty interesting. Our teenage sons spent some time at the water parks and Disney Quest, but DW and I never made it there. We had a fabulous dinner at California Grill (my older son's 17th birthday) and we even had a character meal at Liberty Tree.
    Now, I will say that Walt Disney World offers more than Disneyland Resort... but this isn't about that. We're only comparing the Magic Kingdom Park to Disneyland Park. Somehow the whole discussion took a tangent and started to compare the rest of the Resort.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trekkie Dad
    We liked WDW so much that we sprung for a Disney Cruise the following summer and extended the WDW portion to a full week at the Beach Club. That place is heaven to stay if you love Epcot. (That also gave us more frequent access to Disney MGM.)
    Yes... that it does... not the point though. But just so you know I understand, I was there earlier today. Though I wish Beaches and Cream opened for breakfast so I could have eggs at breakfast like the other Deluxe resorts. lol Other than that, the resort is wonderful. It's like it has its own waterpark too. Not sure what time of year you went, but I'm sure you enjoyed the pool if you were there in the warmer months.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trekkie Dad
    But the funny thing was, after we returned to California, I had a renewed interest in Disneyland. The old familiar places seemed fresh again, and when DCA opened, it was cool to visit a couple of new favorites from WDW, along with Soarin'. And DCA had a certain spaciousness and newness that reminded me of the WDW parks.
    Yeah... DCA had that impression on me too... but DCA doesn't have enough to do yet. It reminds me of the Disney-MGM Studios when it first opened. The park has a lot of potential, it will just take a while until it reaches its maturity. The Disney-MGM Studios hasn't even reached its maturity, it's just because the park is so far away from the other parks, it's not practical to walk over to the Magic Kingdom after a day at the Studios. That is why DCA has a few extra problems that the Disney-MGM Studios didn't have... it's too close to the other park so people can leave and go to the other park at night. And you can change your mind at the gate. Anyway, I find the Disney-MGM Studios very comparable to the Disney-MGM Studios seven years ago. Anyway, that's not what this thread is about anyway. Back to the topic at hand!
    Quote Originally Posted by Trekkie Dad
    So how do I feel now? WDW and DLR are two very different sides of the same coin. I love the expansiveness of WDW as much as the compactness of DLR. I love that DLR is "close" (a day's drive) and familiar and that WDW is far away and exotic. Each posesses strengths and weaknesses that the other doesn't have. Walt may have walked in Disneyland, but his spirit dwells in Florida as well.
    I agree 100%... but that's not the point of this thread though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trekkie Dad
    Aren't we lucky to have them both and to be able to argue over which is better? As far as I'm concerned, there are no losers here.
    I think if you compare the two parks, you might see who looses out. But when you compare WDW with DL, it's just not the same (or a fair) comparison.

  15. #90

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    Re: Holy cow, WDW's Magic Kingdom is Horrible! (Compared to Disneyland Park)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill
    But when you compare WDW with DL, it's just not the same (or a fair) comparison.
    But it is fair to compare a 50 year old park with a 34 year old one? A park that had 16 extra years of growth? A park that had the whole resort to itself for 40-somewhat years compared to the other, who only had the resort to itself for less than 10 years?

    -Michael
    “You can design and create, and build the most wonderful place in the world. But it takes people to make the dream a reality.” - Walt Disney

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