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  1. #121

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    Re: Holy cow, WDW's Magic Kingdom is Horrible! (Compared to Disneyland Park)

    Quote Originally Posted by TDLFAN
    Reason why TDL looks like it just opened yesterday after 22 yrs in business.. Do we need to see broken light fixtures in Tomorrowland??? I think not.
    It'd be nice if we could see the SOP for maintenance for TDL, but sadly we can't. Even if someone posted it here, I think few of us could be able to read it. The question when it comes to maintenance is not whether you can take a picture of a burnt-out light bulb today, but whether you can do it in a week and it's still like that.

    I think if you look hard and find a maintenance issue at TDL, and come back in 3 days, is it still there? I would expect TDL to take a few days to get to something and WDW to take a week, considering the size of the place, the size of the workforce, etc.

  2. #122

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    Re: Holy cow, WDW's Magic Kingdom is Horrible! (Compared to Disneyland Park)

    See, TDL does preventitive maintenance on light bulbs... WDW doesn't.

    That means that even before the bulbs have a chance to go out in TDL, they'll be replaced. WDW waits till the bulbs go out, then they are replaced within a week.

  3. #123

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    Re: Holy cow, WDW's Magic Kingdom is Horrible! (Compared to Disneyland Park)

    DL used to do this by a formula. When a bulb reached I think it was 60% of its usage life, the bulbs were replaced before failure. A great policy if you ask me.

  4. #124

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    Re: Holy cow, WDW's Magic Kingdom is Horrible! (Compared to Disneyland Park)

    It goes to the heart of what I have been posting online for a couple of years now, perspective. Some of us have it, some of us have a lot less of it. Perspective comes from experience and as I've said before if I was about to be wheeled into surgery, I wouldn't want DoogieMikey operating on me (I'm sure he'd give me a labotomy!). When I get on a plane I feel very good when I see my 767 is being piloted by a 50-year-old, not a hotshot 25-year-old. Does anyone see where I'm going with this? It's late and I'm awfully tired after wading through all of Mike's posts (OK, insert smilie).

    I honestly -- and very strongly -- know that some posters viewpoints deserve a bit more thought because of their perspective, their track record and what/who they know
    Perspective can only go so far. If we only listened to people with perspective, no one would ever discuss about events that happened before 1900s. It's not about having perspective, it's about using it. I don't need perspective to know that October 29, 1929 was a horrible day. I don't need perspective to know that I would never want to live in the hippie-era. I don't need perspective to love Disney. Did things used to be better at Disney? Maybe you think so. Maybe others think so. But that doesn't mean I have to think so. I don't buy into the whole you-can't-understand-it-unless-you-have-persepective concept. Until someone invents the time machine, I am never going to go back and witness these things for myself. However, I will use what I do know to formulate my opinion. And yes, I will have an opinion on this and always will.

    -Michael
    BTW: The older pilot is more suseptable to memory loss and heart diseases than the young pilot.
    “You can design and create, and build the most wonderful place in the world. But it takes people to make the dream a reality.” - Walt Disney

  5. #125

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    Re: Holy cow, WDW's Magic Kingdom is Horrible! (Compared to Disneyland Park)

    Quote Originally Posted by danyoung
    What a fun thread. And the sight of WDW1974 making even the slightest nod to peacemaking just warms the cockles of my curmudgeon heart! (And I'm loving the "insert smilies"!).
    Aweeeeeee.....I am really a lover, not a fighter. Belligerent is a word no one would ever use to describe me.

    And I'm not really trying to make peace ... just to make sense of why people get so emotional about this debate.

    As for the smilies, I have given up all use of them. I consider them a very annoying part of the Internet and would like to think my words speak for themself, but I'll do the 'insert smilies' for those folks who need some extra help understanding WDW1974 (insert smilie).

    Quote Originally Posted by danyoung
    I won't jump into the debate as to which MK style park I love more, as I love 'em both. But I just wanted to say to mike that if a park has a train going around it, and an entryway via Main Street, and a castle in the middle, and a Tomorrowland to the right, and a Fantasyland on the other side of the castle, and a Frontierland to the left that has a sternwheeler going around a playground island, and an Adventureland to the left that has a Jungle Cruise and a Tiki Room, then yes, I think it's fair to compare them apples to apples. They're not the same, and no one said they are. But their similarities make comparisons easy.
    Dan, at the risk of making your melon-shaped head grow even larger, I do think you have 'splained why it is very fair to compare MKs better than I did. Thanks.

  6. #126

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    Re: Holy cow, WDW's Magic Kingdom is Horrible! (Compared to Disneyland Park)

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinYee
    OLC really does take care of the parks, no doubt about it, and no argument from me.

    Still, I wonder. What will life be like in a couple of decades, when TDL has had to split the budget with TDS for twenty years? Then, and only then, will we have something to compare MK to in Japan.
    Knowing the history of OLC and the general Japanese culture, I don't think there's a chance of a problem.

    Besides, WDW took care of both the MK and EC for the 1980s. Heck, even when the Disney-MGM Studios opened they still took care of all three parks. It was only after around 1994-95 explosive level of resort growth, coupled with Frank Wells' death, coupled with Eisner running scared, that WDW began heading in the other direction.

    WDW could improve upkeep at all four of its parks all the way back to 1980s levels ... but they won't.

  7. #127

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    Re: Holy cow, WDW's Magic Kingdom is Horrible! (Compared to Disneyland Park)

    Quote Originally Posted by danyoung
    DL used to do this by a formula. When a bulb reached I think it was 60% of its usage life, the bulbs were replaced before failure. A great policy if you ask me.
    Exactly!

    At least someone knows what I'm talking about!

  8. #128

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    Re: Holy cow, WDW's Magic Kingdom is Horrible! (Compared to Disneyland Park)

    Quote Originally Posted by MickeyMania
    It'd be nice if we could see the SOP for maintenance for TDL, but sadly we can't. Even if someone posted it here, I think few of us could be able to read it. The question when it comes to maintenance is not whether you can take a picture of a burnt-out light bulb today, but whether you can do it in a week and it's still like that.

    I think if you look hard and find a maintenance issue at TDL, and come back in 3 days, is it still there? I would expect TDL to take a few days to get to something and WDW to take a week, considering the size of the place, the size of the workforce, etc.
    See, I am reasonable. I understand that WDW is huge now. I understand that there's a whole lot more to take care of than in 1975 or 1985 or even 1995.

    So, OK, I'll let things go for a week that used to be fixed before they could fall into disrepair..

    But, see, I won't justify effects on attractions that haven't worked in months or YEARS! I won't let woodrot and rusted railings and filthy bathrooms go.

    Not when maintenance staffs and budgets have been cut. Not when SOP says one thing, but WDW management ignores it.

    Do you know how much money just one WDW theme park takes in in profit per day? Nah ... I expect more from Disney. They taught me to!

  9. #129

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    Re: Holy cow, WDW's Magic Kingdom is Horrible! (Compared to Disneyland Park)

    Quote Originally Posted by MickeyMania
    It'd be nice if we could see the SOP for maintenance for TDL, but sadly we can't. Even if someone posted it here, I think few of us could be able to read it. The question when it comes to maintenance is not whether you can take a picture of a burnt-out light bulb today, but whether you can do it in a week and it's still like that.

    I think if you look hard and find a maintenance issue at TDL, and come back in 3 days, is it still there? I would expect TDL to take a few days to get to something and WDW to take a week, considering the size of the place, the size of the workforce, etc.
    I can give WDW a bit of a break because of its sheer size.

    But that's it. You want a week. You got a week.

    Now, how does that justify woodrot and rust that took years to get that way? What about effects on attractions that haven't worked in years? That OK with you? It's not with me.

    You think I've got a problem with one lightbulb? Take a look at the lighting along the roof of the Beach Club one night. 1/2 the lights must be out (unless they've been replaced since October) ... they've been like that since at least 1999 or 2000, if not longer. Do you think that's good show? Do you think that's what a resort which doesn't have a room priced much under $250 a night in its cheapest season should allow to happen? I don't.

    Disney taught me to expect the best from the company.

    I still do ... and boy does it piss off some apologists.

  10. #130

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    Re: Holy cow, WDW's Magic Kingdom is Horrible! (Compared to Disneyland Park)

    Quote Originally Posted by askmike1
    Perspective can only go so far. ... And yes, I will have an opinion on this and always will.

    -Michael
    BTW: The older pilot is more suseptable to memory loss and heart diseases than the young pilot.
    Mikey, you'll always have an opinion. I respect that. I agree with some of your opinions.

    But you know something? You're smarter now and have more perspective on WDW now than you did five years ago. You'll have even more five years from now. That's just common sense. And you know it.

    BTW ... I'll take my chances with the pilot who has flown millions of more miles and who knows how many flights because he/she has likely seen a whole lot more and can better respond to a situation than a novice pilot.

  11. #131

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    Re: Holy cow, WDW's Magic Kingdom is Horrible! (Compared to Disneyland Park)

    All I can say is that there is nothing like the Original.

    WDW is pretty good. In fact, each Disney park has it's great points. But you cant top the one that started it all.

  12. #132

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    Re: Holy cow, WDW's Magic Kingdom is Horrible! (Compared to Disneyland Park)

    Quote Originally Posted by WDW1974
    But you know something? You're smarter now and have more perspective on WDW now than you did five years ago. You'll have even more five years from now. That's just common sense. And you know it.
    Okay, in 5 years will I have more perspective on Disney: 1985? How about 10 years? 20 Years? 100 years? No. However, that does not affect viewpoints on it. And a lot of the time, people who haven't lived through something (but researched it) know a lot more than people who actually experienced it. I just find it tiring when you (not you in particular, General you (the concept, not the Micechatter)) play the age card.

    BTW ... I'll take my chances with the pilot who has flown millions of more miles and who knows how many flights because he/she has likely seen a whole lot more and can better respond to a situation than a novice pilot.
    Unless of course he has depression and spent the previous night drinking his sorrows.

    just to make sense of why people get so emotional about this debate
    Gee I can't imagine why (considering the first thing people see here is "Holy Cow, WDW's Magic Kingdom is Horrible!")
    “You can design and create, and build the most wonderful place in the world. But it takes people to make the dream a reality.” - Walt Disney

  13. #133

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    Re: Holy cow, WDW's Magic Kingdom is Horrible! (Compared to Disneyland Park)

    Quote Originally Posted by MickeyMania



    I just listed a ton of stuff that DL owes to WDW and there's even more still going back in time, such as Space Mountain.
    Well, that could be argued. Space Mountain was originally planned by Walt Disney to go in Disneyland... So you could say the idea was stolen from Disneyland first. But personally, I don't care... I love Disneyland, it's awesome... I plan on going to WDW some day and I know I will love it.

  14. #134

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    Re: Holy cow, WDW's Magic Kingdom is Horrible! (Compared to Disneyland Park)

    Quote Originally Posted by danyoung
    DL used to do this by a formula. When a bulb reached I think it was 60% of its usage life, the bulbs were replaced before failure. A great policy if you ask me.
    True, but it's a costly one. Even the pickiest, most curmudgeonly, attention-to-detail casinos here let the bulb burn out before they replace it, and they've been getting closer to Disney standards of keeping the room looking new than Disney has been recently.

    I've heard stories of people who work for Steve Wynn (of Treasure Island and other casinos fame, now runs a new hotel) who say that when he visits the casino (which he does fairly regularly) and sees bulb burnt out on a machine or somewhere else, he tells someone to fix it. On his next visit, if it's not fixed, the person who was told to fix it is fired and that person's boss is fired, too.

    I can't expect Disney to be kicking managers out the door repeatedly like that, but it's just an example of probably the most anal attention-to-detail here.

    And DL had plenty of burnt-out bulbs in the 70s/80s when the place fell downhill. It was when Eisner came in and started developing a plan for the parks that the place cleaned up again.

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    Re: Holy cow, WDW's Magic Kingdom is Horrible! (Compared to Disneyland Park)

    Quote Originally Posted by WDW1974
    But, see, I won't justify effects on attractions that haven't worked in months or YEARS! I won't let woodrot and rusted railings and filthy bathrooms go.
    While I suspect that FL has it's own version of the Tiki Room circa 2003, an attraction falling into complete disrepair, all buildings to suffer rot and rust to a degree and everyone knows that. I wouldn't let something like that ruin my vacation because that's just how outdoor structures are. The important thing is that it's kept under a certain degree of control.

    As for filthy bathrooms, well, yeah, that's a custodial issue and not a cause of nature, just like the gross hotel rooms.

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