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  1. #181

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    Re: Avatarland Canceled?

    I think 7 years is way too long. Everyone will forget about the first movie by then.
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  2. #182

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    Re: Avatarland Canceled?

    Quote Originally Posted by Twist1234 View Post
    ...how the hell is Cameron goiung to top the visuals of Avatar 1?
    Answer: he isn't.

    How is Cameron going to top the technology that created Avatar in the first place? Answer: he isn't.

    How is Avatar II going to top the novelty and impact of the original? Answer: it won't.

    By the time AII comes out, there will have been numerous films with the same level of mo-cap tech and the same quality of visuals as Avatar. The original Avatar was 'way above the crowd in technology. Avatar II won't be -- Cameron will not have the money to make the same leap-above-baseline advance in technology.

    The reason is that AII's budget will not be able to approach the budget of the original. The reality of the film business is that nobody finances sequels at a higher level than the original, no matter who the director and no matter how big the original's box office, unless the original has generated a large ancillary market (e.g. merch), in which area Avatar has laid a goose egg.

    The reality for Disney is that if they go through with Avatarland, they will be trying to catch a wave after the crest has passed. The more that fact sinks in, the more they'll back away from the deal, if they haven't done so already. (The fact that the licensing deal is enormously expensive, and that Disney doesn't have a piece of the franchise, and that as visually brilliant as he is, Jim Does Not Work Well With Others, are also key factors.)
    Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 04-21-2012 at 04:16 PM.
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  3. #183

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    Re: Avatarland Canceled?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Answer: he isn't. And how is he going to top the breakthrough technology that created Avatar in the first place? Answer: he isn't. How will Avatar II top impact of the original? Answer: it won't.

    All of which is why there's no way that AII will approach the budget of the original. Nobody finances sequels at a higher level than the original -- no matter who the director, and no matter how financially successful the original. Fact of Hollywood.
    Exactly!

  4. #184

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    Re: Avatarland Canceled?

    I still would not bet against James Cameron.
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  5. #185

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    Re: Avatarland Canceled?

    And this needs be a land at the Animal Kingdom because...?
    It bothers me when people selectively edit quotes to support whatever point they are trying to prove.

  6. #186

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    Re: Avatarland Canceled?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dapper Dan View Post
    And this needs be a land at the Animal Kingdom because...?
    Exactly! Even if a film grossed $10 billion, that does not mean it needs to be built into a theme park.

  7. #187

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    Re: Avatarland Canceled?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronco21 View Post
    Woa just because you think you're opinion is right and others are wrong doesn't mean that they are ignorant. Fact is that Avatar has not YET been proven as a viable franchise for THEME PARKS! It has not YET been proven as anything other than an enormously successful film. No one can tell exactly for sure what will happen with the second and third film. They could flop like many are suggesting they MIGHT. They MIGHT also be a huge cash cow like the original. just because you dont agree with the conclusions and information others are basing their OPINIONS on doesn't mean they are being ignorant.
    The opinion defense is way too often abused. I'll give you an example. I could hate football. I may think it's boring. I may think it's stupid. I may think it's violent. I may not understand why other people like it at all. That's an opinion. Everyone is entitled to an opinion like that. However, if I say the next Super Bowl will get very bad ratings, that makes me an idiot. You don't need to be a soothsayer to figure out that the next Avatar movie will make a lot of money. You just need to understand math and have common sense. I predict the movie will be bigger than the first, which is the case with most sequels in this blockbuster pattern, but even if it only does half as well, it will still be one of the most successful movies of all time.

    And this needs be a land at the Animal Kingdom because...?
    1. The world of Pandora, whether you think so or not, is compelling to many, many people. Many people will come to DAK to experience it for themselves outside of the movie going experience.
    2. It's something we haven't seen at an amusement park yet. The themed areas and rides are likely be completley new experiences.
    3. It can create a great immersive fantasy experience due to the nature of Pandora. That's what Disney parks are supposed to be about.
    4. It will be financially successful. It will be a draw to Animal Kigdom, a park that is probably at the lower tier of Disney theme parks in terms of visitors.
    5. It will attract people that don't go to Disney currently. People that just love Monsters Inc., for example, are probably already coming to Disney. This is why Harry Potter was good. It attracted an audience that wasn't already going to Universal.
    6. It will force Imagineering to think outside the box for once, which can have many benefits for the Avatar attractions and other unrelated attractions down the road.
    7. Due to it's financial success related to the draw of Avatar, it will benefit Animal Kingdom and other parks. This means more new attractions, more refurbishments, more investment, etc. not directly related to Avatar.

  8. #188

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    Re: Avatarland Canceled?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kei View Post
    The opinion defense is way too often abused. I'll give you an example. I could hate football. I may think it's boring. I may think it's stupid. I may think it's violent. I may not understand why other people like it at all. That's an opinion. Everyone is entitled to an opinion like that. However, if I say the next Super Bowl will get very bad ratings, that makes me an idiot. You don't need to be a soothsayer to figure out that the next Avatar movie will make a lot of money. You just need to understand math and have common sense. I predict the movie will be bigger than the first, which is the case with most sequels in this blockbuster pattern, but even if it only does half as well, it will still be one of the most successful movies of all time.
    The big difference is that the Super Bowl has decades of examples of its ratings to predict future results. On the other hand, Cameron has directed a sequel to one of his films once, Terminator 2, and a sequel to another franchise, Aliens 2. I'm not saying Cameron will fail, but there's also no guarantees of success either since Cameron hasn't made a sequel in decades, and has never made a sequel to a film on the scale of Avatar. Pandora may be a great setting, but sequels need either strong characters or story to keep people coming back. The first movie lacked in both story and character building, and we have no idea so far what the sequels will bring. I'd say making any kind of definite statement about the sequels' success is impossible at this point, and it's way too early to be calling people ignorant or claiming opinions are invalid.
    "A paradise for children--and for grownups, too. I don't know when I've had so much fun."-Richard Nixon on Disneyland

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  9. #189

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    Re: Avatarland Canceled?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kei View Post
    2. It's something we haven't seen at an amusement park yet. The themed areas and rides are likely be completley new experiences.
    TDO budging original rides?! We all wish that were true.

  10. #190

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    Re: Avatarland Canceled?

    Ever seen a lousy, but expensive, film adaption of a great book, play etc.? Same thing here. Themed entertainment is its own medium. Success in film does not mean automatic success in other mediums. This project was carried about based on a reaction to a misreading of the success of The Wizarding World of Harry Potter.

  11. #191

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    Re: Avatarland Canceled?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kei View Post


    Your example is terrible. I was specific. I said direct sequels to block busters that made at least 400 million dollars (or more or somewhere in that range). Big tent pole pictures that were hugely successful. And the more recent, the more relevant to current trends. Your example is a movie from 32 years ago that is just directed by the same guy as a completely unrelated movie that was successful. According to wikipedia:



    I could be mistaken, but that doesn't sound like the Deer Hunter 2. Also the Deer Hunter isn't a scifi/action/special effects/fantasy film with wide appeal across demographics. It's a serious drama involving Vietnam.
    The point isn't that it's a sequel, it's that the director and studio screwed up. Same could happen here. What the hell story can you do after the conclusion of Avatar 1 anyway? Jake going around a banshee looking at the fancy CGI?

  12. #192

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    Re: Avatarland Canceled?

    Quote Originally Posted by Twist1234 View Post
    The point isn't that it's a sequel, it's that the director and studio screwed up. Same could happen here. What the hell story can you do after the conclusion of Avatar 1 anyway? Jake going around a banshee looking at the fancy CGI?
    For the point you need to look at the studio and the director. Point out where Fox and James Cameron have screwed up when working together?
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  13. #193

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    Re: Avatarland Canceled?

    Quote Originally Posted by KingEric View Post
    For the point you need to look at the studio and the director. Point out where Fox and James Cameron have screwed up when working together?
    Point taken, still feels wrong that the killer E ticket rides are going to be made from an outsourced franchise.

  14. #194

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    Re: Avatarland Canceled?

    Quote Originally Posted by Twist1234 View Post
    Point taken, still feels wrong that the killer E ticket rides are going to be made from an outsourced franchise.
    Do you feel the same way about:
    The Jungle Cruise
    Star Tours
    Indiana Jones

    And all the Pixar attractions/experiences prior to the 2007 purchase of Pixar?

    Personally if this is happening great, if not great... I just want the parks to get attractions and theming that gives me a reason to visit.
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  15. #195

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    Re: Avatarland Canceled?

    Quote Originally Posted by KingEric View Post
    Do you feel the same way about:
    The Jungle Cruise
    Star Tours
    Indiana Jones

    And all the Pixar attractions/experiences prior to the 2007 purchase of Pixar?

    Personally if this is happening great, if not great... I just want the parks to get attractions and theming that gives me a reason to visit.
    Id bring up the proven franchise argument for Star Wars but Kei would bring up the sequels makes more argument. As for Jungle Cruise I actually completely forgot it was based of a movie. Can you say Indiana Jones for WDW? Really all it got was a "so so" stage show. Yeah they're all great still I really still don't feel comfortable with this, this is a whole land based off Avatar just as a knee jerk reaction from TDO to Wizardin World of HP when some sections of the resort are in piss poor state.

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