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  1. #211

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    Re: Avatarland Canceled?

    Moderator Note:

    Several of the posts in this thread have been removed.

    Unfortunately, several posts that in themselves were not bad, had to be moved also because they were intertwined with the bickering posts. We are sorry for that.

    Several posts that started out as nothing more than a spirited discussion/debate on the topic, quickly disintegrated into a shouting match and an argument between the members... so ALL of those posts were moved.

    This topic has brought out some very strong emotions on both sides of the issue. We are a discussion board, and we encourage our members to discuss both sides of every issue. However, we also expect our members to discuss both sides with respect to the rest of the community, and with respect to the person who has an opposing view. "Attack the post, not the poster," and keep the conversation, calm, rational and civil are point to keep in mind from this point out.




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  2. #212

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    Re: Avatarland Canceled?

    This whole debate is getting pretty contorted. Avatar may or may not be the biggest hit ever, based on comparisons of worldwide figures adjusted for inflation, blah, blah...who cares? The fact remains that it was a huge hit, and the sequels are highly likely to be bluckbusters, as well.

    Maybe there are people who saw the movie and won't want to visit the land. Maybe there are people who didn't see it and will want to visit the land. Bottom line? Millions saw this movie, and the only way this land could fail is if Disney botches it.

    People keep bringing up Potter as a comparison. I've read numerous posts that go something like this: "I'm not a Potter fan, but I love WWOHP." Or: "I'm not a Potter fan, but I heard Wizarding World is great, can't wait to go." If Disney builds it (AND does a good job), they will come. Granted, any new land would always generate excitement. But the combination of a new land AND the cache of a worldwide blockbuster movie (or franchise) has huge potential.

    Cars might be an even better comparison. The second movie underperformed the first (which is fairly unusual), yet has that slowed the anticipation for Cars Land? Quite a few people didn't like either movie, but everyone expects a mob scene all summer at DCA's newest land. That's because, from everything we've seen, the theming is impressive and the rides look promising. The Cars name gives it an extra cache and increased appeal for certain demographics, but the execution is far more important. It's the same thing with Avatar; the name will help bring people in, but it's the quality of the land that will determine it's staying power.

  3. #213

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    Re: Avatarland Canceled?

    ^ I think what people are forgetting though is that Disney is not Universal. Disney Parks didn't get their success by marketing popular films as attractions. They got their success through immersion, creativity, storytelling and all of that crazyness. And it pains me to know that a company that once used to be on top is now having to copy their competition just to keep their head above water.

    Nothing in the world is ever going top Potter, IMO. Disney's gotta deal with the fact that they not only lost out on that, but failed to do anything to respond when the land was under construction. Avatar might have been popular when it was released but it's losing a lot of its flair and doesn't have Potter's lasting power even with sequels in the works. Plus such an attraction in DAK is going to be out of place because little of the film had anything to do with animals.

  4. #214

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    Re: Avatarland Canceled?

    Disney doesn't need to top Potter. They are still well ahead in terms of attendance, even after the success of WWOHP. They do need to expand the offerings at AK, and to make sure that their investment in this project doesn't turn out to be a failure. As I said above, that comes down to execution.

  5. #215

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    Re: Avatarland Canceled?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneyfann121 View Post
    Disney doesn't need to top Potter. They are still well ahead in terms of attendance, even after the success of WWOHP. They do need to expand the offerings at AK, and to make sure that their investment in this project doesn't turn out to be a failure. As I said above, that comes down to execution.
    Cant argue with you there, they certainly need to expand on the offerings they currently offer in the park. I just believe the selection of Avatar was unnecessary and done by the company to compete with potter which as you said and I agree they didn't need to do. It feels hammered in and totally out of place contorting the theme of the park to fit the property which again is also wrong especially after they had so much success with Africa and Asia. on top of the point that it is destined to be underwhelming based upon the impossible to replicate realistically landscapes, they would have been better to continue adding continents. that would actually fit the theme, save a lot of money by not having to buy rights, have a much broader appeal, and give imagineers more leeway to explore concepts and create unique experiences.

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    Re: Avatarland Canceled?

    Quote Originally Posted by toonaspie View Post
    I think what people are forgetting though is that Disney is not Universal. Disney Parks didn't get their success by marketing popular films as attractions. They got their success through immersion, creativity, storytelling and all of that crazyness. And it pains me to know that a company that once used to be on top is now having to copy their competition just to keep their head above water.
    Exactly. It's sad that the first people who forgot Disney is not Universal was Disney management itself. Eisner and Iger cut their teeth as TV executives -- a world of imitation and marketeering, not innovation and imagineering. Bob still follows the philosophy of his predecessor and mentor Michael, who imitated Universal's "Ride the Movies" paradigm with his dictate that "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."

    Be it Orlando or Anaheim, the days of Disney being a worldclass leader in theme park innovation are gone. They're coasting on the head of steam created by the pre-Eisner Disney Company -- steam that is steadily losing its power to propel Disney past the competition. Avatar or Cars, Toy Story or Nemo, with every decision to imitate the "Ride the Movies" formula, Disney erases more of the once-distinctive difference between itself and Universal.
    Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 04-28-2012 at 12:24 PM.
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  7. #217

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    Re: Avatarland Canceled?

    Avatar, while it made a lot of money, is an example of a franchise that needs to die with the movie. At best, it deserves a mention in the Great Movie Ride at MGM.

    To build a whole park expansion around it is just sheer stupidity. It's not Harry Potter Disney...get over it, you lost that franchise. Start focusing on the franchises you DO own, but under represent...like Star Wars.

    Sheesh, sometimes I want to know what sort of "bath salts" disney execs take.

  8. #218

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    Re: Avatarland Canceled?

    my opinions are mixed. but i know if WDI builds this, it wont disappoint


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  9. #219

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    Re: Avatarland Canceled?

    1. The movie made a lot of money but...can anyone name a character? Compare that to Star Wars, Indy, Harry Potter, Pirates of the Caribbean, Star Trek.... People don't want to "know" the people in Avatar or go to that place ("Pandora", is that what it's called?...saw the movie once and...never need to see a frame of it again.).

    2. Moms decide where the family goes on vacation. Eh, Disney executives, do you NOT KNOW THAT? Unbelievable. How many MOMS are saying "Ooooh, I can't wait to go to Avatarland...based on the weird movie my husband made me watch." Moms (and grandmas) like Cars because their preschool children/grandchildren love cars and they talk and they're cute and sweet and lovable (i.e., there are children's books based on Cars...not so for Avatar). Moms like Harry Potter because THEY read the books too and (did I mention) THEY ARE BOOKS. In short, the people who decide whether to go to WDW or not don't care about Avatar. (Disney, do some focus-grouping before making an announcement like that.)

    2. Who wants to see a bunch of concrete fake trees, plastic vines, fake flowers. Haven't we all seen that enough, from Swiss Family/Tarzan Treehouse to Rainforest Cafe to the pool area of any random Vegas or Hawaiian hotel.

    3. Now, imagine trying to squeeze a shop or restaurant with garbage cans and restrooms here and there. Do this an urbanized land like Wizarding World, Carsland or a hypothetical Star Wars land, easy. In Avatarland, no. Defeats the whole point.

    4. Not to mention, what merchandise could people possibly want? With Star Wars, Pirates, Harry Potter, the merchandise is a no-brainer. What will I buy in Avatarland...a fern? A plastic cup with light-up straw with the Avatar logo on it? Ugh.

    5. $500M?

  10. #220

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    Re: Avatarland Canceled?

    Quote Originally Posted by JayD View Post
    1. The movie made a lot of money but...can anyone name a character? Compare that to Star Wars, Indy, Harry Potter, Pirates of the Caribbean, Star Trek.... People don't want to "know" the people in Avatar or go to that place ("Pandora", is that what it's called?...saw the movie once and...never need to see a frame of it again.).

    2. Moms decide where the family goes on vacation. Eh, Disney executives, do you NOT KNOW THAT? Unbelievable. How many MOMS are saying "Ooooh, I can't wait to go to Avatarland...based on the weird movie my husband made me watch." Moms (and grandmas) like Cars because their preschool children/grandchildren love cars and they talk and they're cute and sweet and lovable (i.e., there are children's books based on Cars...not so for Avatar). Moms like Harry Potter because THEY read the books too and (did I mention) THEY ARE BOOKS. In short, the people who decide whether to go to WDW or not don't care about Avatar. (Disney, do some focus-grouping before making an announcement like that.)

    2. Who wants to see a bunch of concrete fake trees, plastic vines, fake flowers. Haven't we all seen that enough, from Swiss Family/Tarzan Treehouse to Rainforest Cafe to the pool area of any random Vegas or Hawaiian hotel.

    3. Now, imagine trying to squeeze a shop or restaurant with garbage cans and restrooms here and there. Do this an urbanized land like Wizarding World, Carsland or a hypothetical Star Wars land, easy. In Avatarland, no. Defeats the whole point.

    4. Not to mention, what merchandise could people possibly want? With Star Wars, Pirates, Harry Potter, the merchandise is a no-brainer. What will I buy in Avatarland...a fern? A plastic cup with light-up straw with the Avatar logo on it? Ugh.

    5. $500M?
    You needlessly revived a very old (and contentious) thread, but this may be one of the best and concise summations of the issue to date. Well done. Couldn't have said it better.
    I knew if this business was ever to get anywhere, if this business was ever to grow, it could never do it by having to answer to someone unsympathetic to its possibilities, by having to answer to someone with only one thought or interest, namely profits. For my idea of how to make profits has differed greatly from those who generally control businesses such as ours. I have blind faith in the policy that quality, tempered with good judgment and showmanship, will win against all odds.
    -Walt Disney



  11. #221

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    Re: Avatarland Canceled?

    The film, while it made a lot of money, is not epic. Even now there are kids who saw it who don't remember it.

    I'm glad it's dead, and I hope it stays so.
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  12. #222

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    Re: Avatarland Canceled?

    Should have gone with TitanicLand instead.

  13. #223

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    Re: Avatarland Canceled?

    Disney testing flying mechanical AVATAR creature?

    Dragon spotted over Minter Field - BakersfieldCalifornian.com

  14. #224

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    Re: Avatarland Canceled?

    Quote Originally Posted by mikelieman View Post
    Should have gone with TitanicLand instead.
    Off topic, but... a much better long term investment, IMO, would be to build a replica of the Titanic, dock it near Downtown Disney, and use it as a hotel / restaurants. Here in Southern California we have the Queen Mary, which functions similarly...but I think a Titanic replica at WDW would draw bigger crowds than that. I heard recently that someone was planning to build a replica elsewhere (Australia, if I remember correctly). I do honestly think a Titanic hotel as a better long term investment than Avatarland. And you wouldn't even have to pay any royalties to Cameron or anyone else.


    That having been said, if they do build an Avatarland, I'll be sure to check it out. It's certainly not a franchise that is very "Disneyesque" but...if done right I'm sure would further enhance what I already consider to be a great park.
    Down with the Hat


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    Re: Avatarland Canceled?

    Quote Originally Posted by JayD View Post
    1. The movie made a lot of money but...can anyone name a character? Compare that to Star Wars, Indy, Harry Potter, Pirates of the Caribbean, Star Trek.... People don't want to "know" the people in Avatar or go to that place ("Pandora", is that what it's called?...saw the movie once and...never need to see a frame of it again.).

    2. Moms decide where the family goes on vacation. Eh, Disney executives, do you NOT KNOW THAT? Unbelievable. How many MOMS are saying "Ooooh, I can't wait to go to Avatarland...based on the weird movie my husband made me watch." Moms (and grandmas) like Cars because their preschool children/grandchildren love cars and they talk and they're cute and sweet and lovable (i.e., there are children's books based on Cars...not so for Avatar). Moms like Harry Potter because THEY read the books too and (did I mention) THEY ARE BOOKS. In short, the people who decide whether to go to WDW or not don't care about Avatar. (Disney, do some focus-grouping before making an announcement like that.)

    2. Who wants to see a bunch of concrete fake trees, plastic vines, fake flowers. Haven't we all seen that enough, from Swiss Family/Tarzan Treehouse to Rainforest Cafe to the pool area of any random Vegas or Hawaiian hotel.

    3. Now, imagine trying to squeeze a shop or restaurant with garbage cans and restrooms here and there. Do this an urbanized land like Wizarding World, Carsland or a hypothetical Star Wars land, easy. In Avatarland, no. Defeats the whole point.

    4. Not to mention, what merchandise could people possibly want? With Star Wars, Pirates, Harry Potter, the merchandise is a no-brainer. What will I buy in Avatarland...a fern? A plastic cup with light-up straw with the Avatar logo on it? Ugh.

    5. $500M?
    And not to forget...

    6. James Cameron. One of the most budget-busting "my way or the highway" egos in the business, partnering with the most budget-scrimping "my way or the highway" corporation in the business.

    It would be a tragedy if it were to be canceled: the stories of ego collisions that would come out of the project would be priceless!
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


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