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  1. #31

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    Re: The Avengers to get Monorail overlay!

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    Like someone said, the monorail without the overlay doesn't fit the things you described either.
    Yes, but it's better.

    Quote Originally Posted by PSUMark View Post
    Because the monorail without overlay is WDW transportation. The monorail with overlay is a gigantic billboard. Without overlay, it is what it is and it gets its job done without calling attention to itself. With overlay, it's equivalent to sticking a gigantic blinking sign on the monorail that says, "Hey!! Look at me!! I don't fit in!!"

    It's also relevant that one of the primary purposes of Disney World as a whole, from its inception, was to demonstrate futuristic transportation systems. Thus the monorail, by virtue of being a monorail, is relevant to the WDW resort. The Avengers has jack to do with anything in WDW other than the fact that they're both owned by TWDC. It's synergy/marketing for its own sake with 0 attempt at theming.

    And no, it really doesn't fit in the Contemporary. Whether you go with the original "Grand Canyon" theme that's only still upheld by Mary Blair's mural, or the newer sleek, ultra-modern aesthetic, the classic monorail design is a better fit.
    I knew if this business was ever to get anywhere, if this business was ever to grow, it could never do it by having to answer to someone unsympathetic to its possibilities, by having to answer to someone with only one thought or interest, namely profits. For my idea of how to make profits has differed greatly from those who generally control businesses such as ours. I have blind faith in the policy that quality, tempered with good judgment and showmanship, will win against all odds.
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  2. #32

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    Re: The Avengers to get Monorail overlay!

    Quote Originally Posted by Disney Romantic View Post
    The difference for me is that so far this is setting a pattern of monorail advertising being reserved for the very occasional blockbuster film, and restricted to one monorail at that. If that's how things continue, one of these every couple years when they want to market something as a major event, I'm not too fussed. If, on the other hand, they started having advertising constantly, on all the monorails, for every random ABC or Disney Channel program that nobody cares about, then I'd find it irritating.

    You could make a slippery slope argument that they're headed towards more ubiquitous advertising, but realistically we only have 2 recent examples, 2 years apart, so I'm still not too bothered about the whole thing. I can definitely understand why some find it aesthetically out of place, but I also think that far more displeasing things have shown up before it. I still shudder to think of the castle cake.
    The problem is that movies that have been promoted on the scale of the Avengers are very common with Disney. We can usually expect a huge-budget, heavily-advertised movie from Disney pretty much every year now, if not even more frequently.

    2006 - POTC Dead Man's Chest
    2007 - POTC At World's End, National Treasure 2
    2008 - Prince Caspian
    2010 - Alice in Wonderland, Prince of Persia
    2011 - Tron: Legacy, POTC On Stranger Tides
    2012 - The Avengers

    The only difference is that The Avengers is the first of these films to be released since the Tronorail ended its run. In my opinion, Disney simply liked what they did with Tronorail to the point that they were willing to do it again - and now, there's no reason we shouldn't expect to do a monorail wrap every year that Disney releases a major movie (i.e., forever).


  3. #33

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    Re: The Avengers to get Monorail overlay!

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkTwain View Post
    The problem is that movies that have been promoted on the scale of the Avengers are very common with Disney. We can usually expect a huge-budget, heavily-advertised movie from Disney pretty much every year now, if not even more frequently.

    2006 - POTC Dead Man's Chest
    2007 - POTC At World's End, National Treasure 2
    2008 - Prince Caspian
    2010 - Alice in Wonderland, Prince of Persia
    2011 - Tron: Legacy, POTC On Stranger Tides
    2012 - The Avengers

    The only difference is that The Avengers is the first of these films to be released since the Tronorail ended its run. In my opinion, Disney simply liked what they did with Tronorail to the point that they were willing to do it again - and now, there's no reason we shouldn't expect to do a monorail wrap every year that Disney releases a major movie (i.e., forever).
    I think these conversations need to be archived for next year if/when we get a wrap for either Lone Ranger or Oz: The Great and Powerful. (Which fit the Magic Kingdom because they are a western and a fantasy!)
    Last edited by lazyboy97O; 04-04-2012 at 10:46 PM.

  4. #34

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    Re: The Avengers to get Monorail overlay!

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkTwain View Post
    The problem is that movies that have been promoted on the scale of the Avengers are very common with Disney. We can usually expect a huge-budget, heavily-advertised movie from Disney pretty much every year now, if not even more frequently.

    2006 - POTC Dead Man's Chest
    2007 - POTC At World's End, National Treasure 2
    2008 - Prince Caspian
    2010 - Alice in Wonderland, Prince of Persia
    2011 - Tron: Legacy, POTC On Stranger Tides
    2012 - The Avengers

    The only difference is that The Avengers is the first of these films to be released since the Tronorail ended its run. In my opinion, Disney simply liked what they did with Tronorail to the point that they were willing to do it again - and now, there's no reason we shouldn't expect to do a monorail wrap every year that Disney releases a major movie (i.e., forever).
    This. Not to mention, the TRONorail lasted from March 2010 all the way into July 2011. TRON: Legacy came out in December 2010. Anyone care to guess how long the Avengeorail will last since they spent all that money designing/installing it? They're going to want to get their money's worth...

    If every monorail wrap gets a 16 month run, they can easily have advertising wraps going perpetually - even if they reserve them for the "occasional blockbuster film."
    I knew if this business was ever to get anywhere, if this business was ever to grow, it could never do it by having to answer to someone unsympathetic to its possibilities, by having to answer to someone with only one thought or interest, namely profits. For my idea of how to make profits has differed greatly from those who generally control businesses such as ours. I have blind faith in the policy that quality, tempered with good judgment and showmanship, will win against all odds.
    -Walt Disney



  5. #35

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    Re: The Avengers to get Monorail overlay!

    These are the ugliest Monorails I've ever seen. WDW Fail.


    I'm not poo-pooing the idea. Just the execution.


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  6. #36

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    Re: The Avengers to get Monorail overlay!

    Quote Originally Posted by PSUMark View Post
    This. Not to mention, the TRONorail lasted from March 2010 all the way into July 2011. TRON: Legacy came out in December 2010. Anyone care to guess how long the Avengeorail will last since they spent all that money designing/installing it? They're going to want to get their money's worth...

    If every monorail wrap gets a 16 month run, they can easily have advertising wraps going perpetually - even if they reserve them for the "occasional blockbuster film."
    I do agree with that...though I think it looks cool, the wrap needs to go by the end of the film's theater run or else it'll just look like laziness on Disney's part.

  7. #37

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    Re: The Avengers to get Monorail overlay!

    They really should have given a different monorail a different character.

    Monorail Purple gets Hawkeye
    Monorail Green gets Hulk
    Monorail Blue gets Captain America
    Monorail Red gets Iron Man
    Monorail Black gets Black Widow


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  8. #38

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    Re: The Avengers to get Monorail overlay!

    Quote Originally Posted by Disney Romantic View Post
    The difference for me is that so far this is setting a pattern of monorail advertising being reserved for the very occasional blockbuster film, and restricted to one monorail at that. If that's how things continue, one of these every couple years when they want to market something as a major event, I'm not too fussed.
    I completely agree with this. Once they start turning multiple monorails into billboards, then we have a NASCAR looking fleet, which completely distracts from the futuristic vibe of (most of) Disney transportation.

  9. #39

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    Re: The Avengers to get Monorail overlay!

    Quote Originally Posted by PSUMark View Post
    Also the fact that the TRON property is somewhat futuristic and the TRONorail was on the Epcot loop that goes through Future World was something of an excuse for its existence.
    But TRON didn't take place in future. It took place in 1982.

    Quote Originally Posted by PSUMark View Post
    This is just a giant billboard plastered on the monorail. It has 0 connection to the Magic Kingdom and the monorail resorts whatsoever. It doesn't fit in turn of the century America, it doesn't fit in Victorian-era Florida, it doesn't fit in the Polynesian islands, and it has no connection to the Contemporary. It's just blatant advertising for the sake of advertising. It makes me want to vomit.
    As was stated earlier, every ride/attraction at the parks is a blatant advertisement for Disney stuff. This is a Disney movie with Disney characters just like the other live action Disney movies. There is a movie theater at Downtown Disney that will most likely be playing the film. That gives this a connection to something else at the resort.

    Quote Originally Posted by PSUMark View Post
    It's also relevant that one of the primary purposes of Disney World as a whole, from its inception, was to demonstrate futuristic transportation systems.
    I'm sure transportation systems in the future will have advertisements on them as well. The Avengers wrap just makes the monorail more authentic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coheteboy View Post
    They really should have given a different monorail a different character.

    Monorail Purple gets Hawkeye
    Monorail Green gets Hulk
    Monorail Blue gets Captain America
    Monorail Red gets Iron Man
    Monorail Black gets Black Widow
    This would have been so cool!!
    "Greetings, Starfighter! You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Xur and the Ko-Dan Armada."

  10. #40

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    Re: The Avengers to get Monorail overlay!

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    But TRON didn't take place in future. It took place in 1982.
    Sadly, the same can be said for much of Future World.


  11. #41

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    Re: The Avengers to get Monorail overlay!

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    As was stated earlier, every ride/attraction at the parks is a blatant advertisement for Disney stuff. This is a Disney movie with Disney characters just like the other live action Disney movies. There is a movie theater at Downtown Disney that will most likely be playing the film. That gives this a connection to something else at the resort.
    This line of thinking is a problem that only hurts the parks. We would balk at films that only referenced other studio films. The parks are their own creative medium, not a Purely derivative one. Such a view is even worse amongst park fans as it means we love something that has no value of its own.

  12. #42

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    Re: The Avengers to get Monorail overlay!

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    But TRON didn't take place in future. It took place in 1982.
    I'm honestly not sure if you're just being obtuse and "playing dumb," or if this is a serious statement, but either way, the advertisement was actually for TRON: Legacy, which took place in 2010. Regardless, it's "futuristic" in that it features fictional, futuristic technology.

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    As was stated earlier, every ride/attraction at the parks is a blatant advertisement for Disney stuff. This is a Disney movie with Disney characters just like the other live action Disney movies. There is a movie theater at Downtown Disney that will most likely be playing the film. That gives this a connection to something else at the resort.
    Again, are you just being obtuse? If the movie theater at DTD is the "connection," then they might as well throw a billboard for American Reunion on the monorail because I'm sure the AMC Theater in DTD will be playing that as well -American Reunion has exactly as much connection to the resort as The Avengers does. This is not a Disney movie, unless Apocalypto and Step Up 3D and Down and Out in Beverly Hills are also "Disney" movies. Yes, Disney owns Marvel, but Disney also own Touchstone. Marvel is branded as Marvel and not Disney for the same reason that Touchstone is branded as Touchstone and not Disney - Disney has a particular brand identity and neither Touchstone nor Marvel are a part of that identity.

    Finally, regarding everything else being an advertisement - that's not even remotely true. Most of the best and most classic attractions - Pirates of the Caribbean, Haunted Mansion, It's a Small World, Jungle Cruise (and on and on I could go) had no connection to any franchise, film, etc. at the time they were built, and many of them still don't. Even those that do involve advertising now (for example, PotC) include advertising in such a way that it is themed and makes sense for the surrounding environment. Jack Sparrow in PotC - even though it's unnecessary and not particularly tasteful, IMHO - at least makes sense because he's on a ride that has to do with pirates. Jack Sparrow in Space Mountain would not make sense, and that's essentially the same kind of random "we're just gonna plop this here because we can" decision they've made by placing an ad for The Avengers on the monorail.

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    I'm sure transportation systems in the future will have advertisements on them as well. The Avengers wrap just makes the monorail more authentic.
    Sooo because something exists in the real world and will exist in the future they should include it in WDW to make it "more authentic?" Man, I know what the monorails need then!! Graffiti! And "If you see something say something" posters! And drunk old men that ride it around at night! And surly Disney transport employees that yell at you if you ask them any questions! Then it'd be a really authentic transportation system.

    Just like good ol' Walt said, "I want my parks to be exactly like the world outside." Man, what have I been thinking!
    I knew if this business was ever to get anywhere, if this business was ever to grow, it could never do it by having to answer to someone unsympathetic to its possibilities, by having to answer to someone with only one thought or interest, namely profits. For my idea of how to make profits has differed greatly from those who generally control businesses such as ours. I have blind faith in the policy that quality, tempered with good judgment and showmanship, will win against all odds.
    -Walt Disney



  13. #43

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    Re: The Avengers to get Monorail overlay!

    Quote Originally Posted by PSUMark View Post
    I'm honestly not sure if you're just being obtuse and "playing dumb," or if this is a serious statement, but either way, the advertisement was actually for TRON: Legacy, which took place in 2010. Regardless, it's "futuristic" in that it features fictional, futuristic technology.



    Again, are you just being obtuse? If the movie theater at DTD is the "connection," then they might as well throw a billboard for American Reunion on the monorail because I'm sure the AMC Theater in DTD will be playing that as well -American Reunion has exactly as much connection to the resort as The Avengers does. This is not a Disney movie, unless Apocalypto and Step Up 3D and Down and Out in Beverly Hills are also "Disney" movies. Yes, Disney owns Marvel, but Disney also own Touchstone. Marvel is branded as Marvel and not Disney for the same reason that Touchstone is branded as Touchstone and not Disney - Disney has a particular brand identity and neither Touchstone nor Marvel are a part of that identity.

    Finally, regarding everything else being an advertisement - that's not even remotely true. Most of the best and most classic attractions - Pirates of the Caribbean, Haunted Mansion, It's a Small World, Jungle Cruise (and on and on I could go) had no connection to any franchise, film, etc. at the time they were built, and many of them still don't. Even those that do involve advertising now (for example, PotC) include advertising in such a way that it is themed and makes sense for the surrounding environment. Jack Sparrow in PotC - even though it's unnecessary and not particularly tasteful, IMHO - at least makes sense because he's on a ride that has to do with pirates. Jack Sparrow in Space Mountain would not make sense, and that's essentially the same kind of random "we're just gonna plop this here because we can" decision they've made by placing an ad for The Avengers on the monorail.



    Sooo because something exists in the real world and will exist in the future they should include it in WDW to make it "more authentic?" Man, I know what the monorails need then!! Graffiti! And "If you see something say something" posters! And drunk old men that ride it around at night! And surly Disney transport employees that yell at you if you ask them any questions! Then it'd be a really authentic transportation system.

    Just like good ol' Walt said, "I want my parks to be exactly like the world outside." Man, what have I been thinking!
    Alright there's no need to be hostile or accusatory. No one is being obtuse for liking something--that's called having an opinion. Sure, the best attractions aren't based on franchises--but the vast majority are. Disney doesn't do anything now without a marketing push.

    Also, there's a reason they advertise Marvel over Touchstome films--because the demand for Marvel is actually there! For every Marvel naysayer there's someone who wants to see Disney do something with it. This advertisement may not be the most creative way of incorporating Marvel, but they're making Marvel's presence known for the many fans interested.

    And your transportation argument makes no sense...you say the whole point of the monorail is to showcase future technology...then says its the advertisement that doesn't fit the theme of the hotels it passes through. You explain this by saying the monorail was more realistic by itself...but then go off on another poster about the monorail's purported 'realism'.

    If you don't like the overlay, fine. Just admit that it's your opinion and you're not right over someone else. The Avengers overlay will excite Disney fans who may be hoping to see more Marvel to come!

  14. #44

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    Re: The Avengers to get Monorail overlay!

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    And your transportation argument makes no sense...you say the whole point of the monorail is to showcase future technology...then says its the advertisement that doesn't fit the theme of the hotels it passes through. You explain this by saying the monorail was more realistic by itself...but then go off on another poster about the monorail's purported 'realism'.
    You're trying to make it sound like I'm contradicting myself by presenting multiple separate statements I made as if they were one coherent argument. They're not. I have several separate points on this topic:
    • One of the primary purposes of Walt Disney World, originally, was to showcase futuristic transportation systems; therefore, the monorail fits within the larger WDW "ecosystem" even if the monorail in its default state doesn't particularly fit with the theming of the Polynesian, the Grand Floridian, or Main Street, U.S.A.
    • The Avengers overlay accentuates and attracts attention to the fact that the monorail is out of place. At best, the overlay is neutral from a theming perspective (though I would argue it's not neutral), but it certainly doesn't enhance coherency of theme.
    • The fact that advertising is omnipresent in the "real world" is no more a reason for advertising in WDW than the fact that crime is omnipresent in the real world so we should have regular muggings and pick-pocketing in Fantasyland. Walt wanted his parks to be a place where "you leave the world of today," not find a reflection of it.
    • Even if you want to point to attractions and lands that are advertisements/tie-ins with existing films, the point is that they're executed in such a way as to fit in unobtrusively with their surrounding environment. Hence, Cinderella Castle is the gateway to Fantasyland and not Tomorrowland. Mulan appears in China and not the UK. Jack Sparrow is on PotC and not HM. The Avengers has 0 connection to the monorail, the Magic Kingdom, or any of the monorail resorts. It's advertising for advertising's sake with 0 concern for theming or theme coherency. This is the biggest problem that I, as well as most detractors of the overlay, have with it. (As an example, if there was some kind of Avengers vehicle that was roughly monorail-ish in shape, and the overlay was designed so as to "transform" the monorail into that vehicle, I still wouldn't be in love with it, but that would be a heck of a lot better because it would be a themed advertisement, rather than the "we're just gonna paste this billboard on here" that exists currently.)


    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    If you don't like the overlay, fine. Just admit that it's your opinion and you're not right over someone else.
    Haha, I'm pretty sure I've been rather clear that I don't like it. That is my opinion, but that doesn't mean I'm not right The fact that everyone's entitled to their own opinion doesn't mean all opinions are equal. There is such a thing as objectively good or bad taste (for instance, a film critic who despised Citizen Kane or a Disney fan who hated Disneyland's Pirates of the Caribbean wouldn't really have much credibility). I'm arguing that The Avengers monorail overlay is objectively bad because it's blatant, undisguised, unthemed advertising which runs counter to the spirit, purpose, and goal of Disney parks as Walt intended them. If you disagree, please present evidence that this is something Walt would have wanted/approved of. So far no one has done that. How well this meshes with recent or contemporary decisions/actions from TWDC is irrelevant - in fact I agree that it is in keeping with the current direction of TWDC. That's part of the problem.

    And for the record, I'm not down on The Avengers. I actually just bought my tickets for the premier tonight and I can't wait to see it. I just don't think it belongs in WDW. Just like I love WWoHP but I'm glad it's in Universal because I don't think it belongs in WDW. I am not anti-Marvel; just anti-Marvel in WDW (unless it is a very limited presence and only in DHS).
    Last edited by PSUMark; 04-08-2012 at 09:00 PM.
    I knew if this business was ever to get anywhere, if this business was ever to grow, it could never do it by having to answer to someone unsympathetic to its possibilities, by having to answer to someone with only one thought or interest, namely profits. For my idea of how to make profits has differed greatly from those who generally control businesses such as ours. I have blind faith in the policy that quality, tempered with good judgment and showmanship, will win against all odds.
    -Walt Disney



  15. #45

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    Re: The Avengers to get Monorail overlay!

    I said it once, i'll say it again. They look epic, and it's certainly not worth my time to debate about it. The end


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