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  1. #1

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    Has anyone noticed?

    Maybe it has been discussed before, of maybe its just me since I am attempting to drink my way around the world as I type this, but the Swan and Dolphin really seem to ruin the EPCOT sightlines by allowing views of stuff external to the parks from inside the parks. What are your thoughts on the intrusion?
    Last edited by calsig31; 04-03-2012 at 09:14 AM.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  2. #2

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    Re: Has anyone noticed?

    Keep drinking around the world and it wont bother you after awhile. Have a magical day!

  3. #3

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    Re: Has anyone noticed?

    Drink more, notice less

  4. #4

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    I have now had the equivalent of a six pack on an empty stomach. How much does it take before one doesn't notice the intrusion?
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  5. #5

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    Re: Has anyone noticed?

    It has been noticed for years. However, they are better than the concrete blocks that Tishman wanted to build.

  6. #6

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    Re: Has anyone noticed?

    My wife's favorite college professor had a sociology of Disney class, and he had a personal vendetta against those hotels for intruding on sight lines in Epcot and other places. We refuse to stay at either the Swan or Dolphin out of respect for his hatred.

    Eventually, alcohol or not you'll just stop noticing them. Though the alcohol certainly helps.
    "A paradise for children--and for grownups, too. I don't know when I've had so much fun."-Richard Nixon on Disneyland

    Newest Post- Epcot 30x30: Club Cool

  7. #7

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    Re: Has anyone noticed?

    I always thought it kinda blended in with France... Or at least that it's supposed to. They did it marvelously with Tower of Terror:


    So I assumed they did the same with the S&D and never noticed.

  8. #8

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    Re: Has anyone noticed?

    Yes. This isn't anything new, but it is awful and is one of the first examples of Eisner's ego intruding on correct theme park/hotel design. It's sad, sad, sad because they could have easily been built somewhere farther away, or been constrained to a reasonable height, but alas, we get a gigantic swan and fish visually intruding onto World Showcase, and now they're likely there forever.

    Werner Weiss and Jim Korkis probably know more about those two hotels and why they are the way they are than anyone else in the Disney community, and they were featured on WDW Radio last year to discuss: WW Goes to WDW at Yesterland.com: WDW Swan and Dolphin on WDW Radio Podcast

    Re-Imagineering also has a great write-up on it: Re-Imagineering: Japan, Morocco, FWAN?!
    I knew if this business was ever to get anywhere, if this business was ever to grow, it could never do it by having to answer to someone unsympathetic to its possibilities, by having to answer to someone with only one thought or interest, namely profits. For my idea of how to make profits has differed greatly from those who generally control businesses such as ours. I have blind faith in the policy that quality, tempered with good judgment and showmanship, will win against all odds.
    -Walt Disney



  9. #9

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    Re: Has anyone noticed?

    Quote Originally Posted by PSUMark View Post
    Yes. This isn't anything new, but it is awful and is one of the first examples of Eisner's ego intruding on correct theme park/hotel design. It's sad, sad, sad because they could have easily been built somewhere farther away, or been constrained to a reasonable height, but alas, we get a gigantic swan and fish visually intruding onto World Showcase, and now they're likely there forever.
    That is not really a very fair assessment of Eisner. The contract that gave Tishman the right to build the hotels was signed before he was hired. He tried to get Disney out of the deal which resulted in the Company being sued. The end result was the compromise that Disney would pick an architect and pay for something more than the concrete blocks which were being planned. Could Eisner have picked a different architect and gone in a different direction? Yes, but Ron Miller also could not have made the initial agreement.

    From a purely business view, it also made sense not to build theme experience hotels for Tishman. That was Disney's niche and there were fewer Disney hotels at the time.

    ---------- Post added 04-03-2012 at 06:43 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter'sGirl View Post
    I always thought it kinda blended in with France... Or at least that it's supposed to. They did it marvelously with Tower of Terror:


    So I assumed they did the same with the S&D and never noticed.
    Nope. Eisner thought it would somehow work. He realized his error and encouraged that the Tower of Terror not make the same mistakes.

  10. #10

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    Re: Has anyone noticed?

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    That is not really a very fair assessment of Eisner. The contract that gave Tishman the right to build the hotels was signed before he was hired. He tried to get Disney out of the deal which resulted in the Company being sued. The end result was the compromise that Disney would pick an architect and pay for something more than the concrete blocks which were being planned. Could Eisner have picked a different architect and gone in a different direction? Yes, but Ron Miller also could not have made the initial agreement.
    The Tishman deal was necessary to get EPCOT Center built, but the Tishman deal wasn't the problem - yes it gave them the right to build hotels, but it didn't specify the hotel designs. Eisner was the one who intentionally brought on Michael Graves, encouraged Graves to use the designs that we now know as the Swan & Dolphin, and then convinced Tishman to accept those designs.

    Per Jim Korkis, Eisner initially told Graves that he couldn't interfere with the EPCOT sightlines, and thus the hotel designs could not exceed eight stories. Then Eisner decided he wanted to send a message that Disney could work with "serious" architects so he rescinded that restriction. The fact that the Swan and Dolphin visually intrude into World Showcase is a direct result of Eisner making that executive decision.

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    Nope. Eisner thought it would somehow work. He realized his error and encouraged that the Tower of Terror not make the same mistakes.
    Eisner knew that the Swan & Dolphin would intrude and accepted the fact that it wouldn't work, and in fact no effort was made to make it work. Do you have any source that supports the assertion that it was Eisner who encouraged the Tower-of-Terror-blending-into-Morocco effect?
    I knew if this business was ever to get anywhere, if this business was ever to grow, it could never do it by having to answer to someone unsympathetic to its possibilities, by having to answer to someone with only one thought or interest, namely profits. For my idea of how to make profits has differed greatly from those who generally control businesses such as ours. I have blind faith in the policy that quality, tempered with good judgment and showmanship, will win against all odds.
    -Walt Disney



  11. #11

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    Re: Has anyone noticed?

    Quote Originally Posted by railking56 View Post
    Keep drinking around the world and it wont bother you after awhile. Have a magical day!
    Quote Originally Posted by Virtual Toad View Post
    Drink more, notice less
    I'll drink to that!

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