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  1. #31

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    Re: Animal Kingdom's "Avatar Land" delayed, possibly permanently.

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneytwins View Post
    Neither does Tower of Terror or RNRC, yet they are the only attractions that get people there. Also, there is a way that you can make the land appear as a set from outside of the land in order to make it look like your entering onto a set. Sort of like the Dine in Theater.
    The incredible wait times for Toy Story Mania would seem to indicate that there are other attractions that draw people to DHS. Tower of Terror absolutely belongs - it fits perfectly into the "Hollywood that never was and always will be" theme of Hollywood Blvd./Sunset Blvd. and is the perfect wienie at the end of Sunset Blvd. You're correct on RnRC, and if it were up to me, I'd relocate or remove that attraction (yes, I'm totally aware that that's completely impractical). Just because an attraction is popular doesn't make it thematically coherent with its surroundings or overall good Imagineering.

    The problem with making Cars Land "a set" is the same thing I said in the thread devoted to the possibility of Cars Land in DHS:
    Quote Originally Posted by PSUMark View Post
    If we're going with the working movie studio theme, Carsland still doesn't make sense. The reason movie-based attractions make sense is because you're supposedly enjoying attractions on sets used in filmmaking (e.g.: Catastrophe Canyon or Honey I Shrunk the Kids playground or the entrance to Star Tours which makes it seem like you're entering a set). The Cars "sets" exist in a computer - there are no sets to visit/see/ride an attraction in. And of course, Cars wouldn't fit in the "golden age of Hollywood" section of the park either. So Cars doesn't really work for any part of DHS, except maybe a "making of" section during the animation tour.

    Granted, DHS hasn't followed its own "rules" and has been an amalgamation of ill-fitting attractions squeezed next to each other for over a decade, so this wouldn't be anything new.

    Also granted, the "hot set" approach to placemaking and theming is one of the dumbest, laziest, and most ineffective conceits in the history of theme parks. It'd be better for DHS if it was abandoned in favor of a total reconception of the park. But unfortunately that will probably never happen.
    I knew if this business was ever to get anywhere, if this business was ever to grow, it could never do it by having to answer to someone unsympathetic to its possibilities, by having to answer to someone with only one thought or interest, namely profits. For my idea of how to make profits has differed greatly from those who generally control businesses such as ours. I have blind faith in the policy that quality, tempered with good judgment and showmanship, will win against all odds.
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  2. #32

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    Re: Animal Kingdom's "Avatar Land" delayed, possibly permanently.

    Why not put it in in the Pixar section then?
    We can still believe that the Cars characters are still real by saying that they used a set for filming.
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  3. #33

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    Re: Animal Kingdom's "Avatar Land" delayed, possibly permanently.

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneytwins View Post
    Neither does Tower of Terror or RNRC, yet they are the only attractions that get people there. Also, there is a way that you can make the land appear as a set from outside of the land in order to make it look like your entering onto a set. Sort of like the Dine in Theater.
    "The Hollywood Tower" - The hotel Tower of Terror takes place in.

    Rock and Roll Coaster I've always accepted because their being chased by paparazzi, in Hollywood.

    And why would you want to visit a set? Wouldn't you want to take part in the story?
    Fear of the unknown.

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    They are loaded with prejudices, not based upon any reality, but based on… if something is new, I reject it immediately because it’s frightening to me. What they do instead is just stay with the familiar.
    You know, to me, the most beautiful things in all the universe, are the most mysterious.











  4. #34

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    Re: Animal Kingdom's "Avatar Land" delayed, possibly permanently.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chesire View Post
    Rock and Roll Coaster I've always accepted because their being chased by paparazzi, in Hollywood.
    This is getting off topic, but the problem with RnRC is the time period - Sunset Blvd. takes place in the 1940s at the latest, but RnRC is at least the 1990s - it's off by at least 50 years. What is it doing on that street? It's like putting Autopia in Frontierland.
    I knew if this business was ever to get anywhere, if this business was ever to grow, it could never do it by having to answer to someone unsympathetic to its possibilities, by having to answer to someone with only one thought or interest, namely profits. For my idea of how to make profits has differed greatly from those who generally control businesses such as ours. I have blind faith in the policy that quality, tempered with good judgment and showmanship, will win against all odds.
    -Walt Disney



  5. #35

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    Re: Animal Kingdom's "Avatar Land" delayed, possibly permanently.

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneytwins View Post
    Why not put it in in the Pixar section then?
    We can still believe that the Cars characters are still real by saying that they used a set for filming.
    I think a Pixar building (such as the Art of Animation building in DCA), where they show how they make the movies, would be better than an actual land. There could be drawing lessons showing how to make Pixar characters in 2-D, a Turtle Talk with Crush/Laugh Floor with Mike, and other exhibits, as well as Pixar characters being "brought to life" at certain times of day.

    Other than that, I really don't see Pixar fitting in DHS.

    ---------- Post added 09-05-2012 at 09:24 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by PSUMark View Post
    This is getting off topic, but the problem with RnRC is the time period - Sunset Blvd. takes place in the 1940s at the latest, but RnRC is at least the 1990s - it's off by at least 50 years. What is it doing on that street? It's like putting Autopia in Frontierland.
    Point taken.

    I can just accept a ride that fits with the general theme of the land, but not the time period, then a land that doesn't fit AT ALL with the whole park.
    Fear of the unknown.

    They are afraid of new ideas.

    They are loaded with prejudices, not based upon any reality, but based on… if something is new, I reject it immediately because it’s frightening to me. What they do instead is just stay with the familiar.
    You know, to me, the most beautiful things in all the universe, are the most mysterious.











  6. #36

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    Re: Animal Kingdom's "Avatar Land" delayed, possibly permanently.

    Kind of disappointing - I really would've liked to see how well they recreated the Pandora atmosphere. Hopefully at very least some of the concept art will make it into another coffee table book someday.

    The good news (for me) is that Festival of the Lion King is not "as" threatened for closure!
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  7. #37

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    Re: Animal Kingdom's "Avatar Land" delayed, possibly permanently.

    Quote Originally Posted by SpectroMan View Post
    Kind of disappointing - I really would've liked to see how well they recreated the Pandora atmosphere. Hopefully at very least some of the concept art will make it into another coffee table book someday.

    The good news (for me) is that Festival of the Lion King is not "as" threatened for closure!
    I think FOLK might still be closing.

    but that being said, I really think that Avatarland would do more to attract international business than anything else, and that it would have been a net positive for WDW.

    I dont' like the idea of any theme park project as massive as this getting canceled, or scaled back.

    Time will tell, but all I have heard for months, is that this isn't happening.
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  8. #38

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    Re: Animal Kingdom's "Avatar Land" delayed, possibly permanently.

    YESSSSSS lol I'm so happy about this its insane. haha I've been fighting this battle a long time, it just doesn't belong in AK. hopefully funds can be allocated to an Australia land or a dinoland refurb/ expansion instead as that would be far better and more appropriate.

    as for DHS, I also agree cars land itself shouldn't go there. its an oxymoron having a pixar land AND a cars land just too much. Now would i like to see a form of radiator springs racers as part of pixar studios? i think that would be a great addition. they need something in that area to draw attention away from toy story midway mania and towards the back of the park. i think that in combination with a long overdue muppets land along side it after the success of their recent film with great muppet movie ride and possibly a new backlot tour on the land behind LMA would take the park a long way.

  9. #39

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    Re: Animal Kingdom's "Avatar Land" delayed, possibly permanently.

    I think adding the racers would be great, but if they do put in carsland as a whole, i hope they come up with attractions better than the tires and tractors. Not a fan of either of those.

  10. #40

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    Re: Animal Kingdom's "Avatar Land" delayed, possibly permanently.

    I'm willing to cut them a bit of slack here. The Cars franchise at DHS is no more out of place than RNR, Star Tours, Muppets, Fantasmic, or Toy Story Mania. What's left of the working-studio theme is laughable and embarassing at this point in time-- the Backlot Tour has had its day and is woefully out of date. There's been no notable movie or TV production there for years.

    As an addition to Pixar Place, Carsland or some variant of it would fit right in. After all, Pixar is a driving force, a modern marvel, a leader in the progression of the movie industry. I don't see how a celebration of Pixar films like Cars or Toy Story is inconsistent with the DHS theme given the other entertainment franchises that are represented in the park as well.

    I also think Avatar would have been a better fit for DHS than DAK. If things like Carsland are coming to WDW at least they're not being awkwardly shoehorned into what remains of Epcot. That would be a true theming disaster.

  11. #41

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    Re: Animal Kingdom's "Avatar Land" delayed, possibly permanently.

    I'm glad hearing about Avatar but not Carsland.

    Never really cared too much as Avatar and probably would get more excited myself seeing an equally beautiful original land of creatures.

    Carsland at DHS just lets me know this park is going to continue loosing itself. At DCA, the theme was already lost and not cared about so Carsland actually helped DCA's identity, even though not thematically correct to California. Easier to overlook I guess.

  12. #42

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    Re: Animal Kingdom's "Avatar Land" delayed, possibly permanently.

    Quote Originally Posted by Virtual Toad View Post
    I'm willing to cut them a bit of slack here. The Cars franchise at DHS is no more out of place than RNR, Star Tours, Muppets, Fantasmic, or Toy Story Mania. What's left of the working-studio theme is laughable and embarassing at this point in time-- the Backlot Tour has had its day and is woefully out of date. There's been no notable movie or TV production there for years.
    I think you could definitely make a case that Star Tours and Muppets still fit with the ostensible theming of the park. But I agree with you on the "working studio theme" - what the park really needs is a total reboot/reconception to a park that doesn't pretend to be a studio, but rather celebrates movies through immersive experiences, and limited behind the scenes tidbits. That would mean scrapping all currently established themes aside from Hollywood Blvd/Sunset Blvd, getting rid of all the false sets, and "re-districting" the rest of the studios into something that kind of resembles immersive, genuinely themed lands.

    The rough framework for this is already there - a Lucas land, a Pixar land, a WDFA land, a Muppets land, and an area that just needs to be totally demo'ed and either absorbed by one or more of the above lands or turned into something totally new (perhaps Marvel land using lesser known characters not in use at IoA, or heck, even Avatar land?). You could do all of the above without making super drastic changes to the existing infrastructure/attraction lineup (i.e.: spending tons and tons of $$$) - you just need to get the details right (i.e.: caring). Unfortunately, TDO doesn't seem to be willing to do either.
    I knew if this business was ever to get anywhere, if this business was ever to grow, it could never do it by having to answer to someone unsympathetic to its possibilities, by having to answer to someone with only one thought or interest, namely profits. For my idea of how to make profits has differed greatly from those who generally control businesses such as ours. I have blind faith in the policy that quality, tempered with good judgment and showmanship, will win against all odds.
    -Walt Disney



  13. #43

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    Re: Animal Kingdom's "Avatar Land" delayed, possibly permanently.

    Quote Originally Posted by SpectroMan View Post
    Kind of disappointing - I really would've liked to see how well they recreated the Pandora atmosphere.
    Wasn't Pandora's atmosphere toxic to humans? I hope they weren't planning on recreating that.

    Jokes aside I don't want to feel good about major park expansion plans being cancelled. However, I'd much rather see no expansion than a bad one and Avatar in the Animal Kingdom from a thematic standpoint was a very bad one.

    I know I say it a lot but I think it's worth repeating that in the early 90s when guests were surveyed about what kind of critters they wanted to see if Disney were to create a park about animals, mythical beasts was the #1 answer. Not to mention the fact that the Animal Kingdom logo has a dragon front and center on it, the head of another dragon sits above the west ticket booth at the entrance, and one of the parking lots is named unicorn. It's almost like they're going out of their way to not do Beastly Kingdom out of spite or something. There's no other explanation for it.
    It bothers me when people selectively edit quotes to support whatever point they are trying to prove.

  14. #44

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    Re: Animal Kingdom's "Avatar Land" delayed, possibly permanently.

    Quote Originally Posted by Virtual Toad View Post
    I'm willing to cut them a bit of slack here. The Cars franchise at DHS is no more out of place than RNR, Star Tours, Muppets, Fantasmic, or Toy Story Mania. What's left of the working-studio theme is laughable and embarassing at this point in time-- the Backlot Tour has had its day and is woefully out of date. There's been no notable movie or TV production there for years.

    As an addition to Pixar Place, Carsland or some variant of it would fit right in. After all, Pixar is a driving force, a modern marvel, a leader in the progression of the movie industry. I don't see how a celebration of Pixar films like Cars or Toy Story is inconsistent with the DHS theme given the other entertainment franchises that are represented in the park as well.

    I also think Avatar would have been a better fit for DHS than DAK. If things like Carsland are coming to WDW at least they're not being awkwardly shoehorned into what remains of Epcot. That would be a true theming disaster.
    I'll agree with you that I would rather the remaining bad ideas for attractions that don't fit theme just get thrown in DHS instead of EPCOT, but I won't justify destroying theme just because they are too cheap to build something new. Either fix the park to actually reflect the theme or change the theme. Don't just ignore that the theme exists. I thought that Cars Land in DCA was a stretch but Cars Land at DHS is even worse. Just because RNR, Fantasmic, and TSM don't fit (I disagree on Muppetvision not fitting theme) doesn't mean that they should just decide to throw theme out the door even more.
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  15. #45

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    Re: Animal Kingdom's "Avatar Land" delayed, possibly permanently.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dapper Dan View Post
    I know I say it a lot but I think it's worth repeating that in the early 90s when guests were surveyed about what kind of critters they wanted to see if Disney were to create a park about animals, mythical beasts was the #1 answer. Not to mention the fact that the Animal Kingdom logo has a dragon front and center on it, the head of another dragon sits above the west ticket booth at the entrance, and one of the parking lots is named unicorn. It's almost like they're going out of their way to not do Beastly Kingdom out of spite or something. There's no other explanation for it.
    The "conventional wisdom" answer here is that too many Imagineers that had been working on DAK concept defected to Universal, and built most of the planned Beastly Kingdom attractions in IoA in one form or another. That may or may not be true (it's at least plausible), but it still doesn't fly. If that's the case, come up with new attraction concepts! If Dragon's Tower and a unicorn attraction are the only possible concepts that Disney can come up with for a mythical creatures-themed land, WDI has deeper problems than probably any of us here want to think about.

    ---------- Post added 09-06-2012 at 11:42 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronco21 View Post
    I'll agree with you that I would rather the remaining bad ideas for attractions that don't fit theme just get thrown in DHS instead of EPCOT, but I won't justify destroying theme just because they are too cheap to build something new. Either fix the park to actually reflect the theme or change the theme. Don't just ignore that the theme exists. I thought that Cars Land in DCA was a stretch but Cars Land at DHS is even worse. Just because RNR, Fantasmic, and TSM don't fit (I disagree on Muppetvision not fitting theme) doesn't mean that they should just decide to throw theme out the door even more.
    Exactly. Spot on.
    I knew if this business was ever to get anywhere, if this business was ever to grow, it could never do it by having to answer to someone unsympathetic to its possibilities, by having to answer to someone with only one thought or interest, namely profits. For my idea of how to make profits has differed greatly from those who generally control businesses such as ours. I have blind faith in the policy that quality, tempered with good judgment and showmanship, will win against all odds.
    -Walt Disney



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