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  1. #1

    • The 70th Matt Named Super
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    An Open Letter to Foamers Like Me

    This has been a really discouraging week of Walt DisneyWorld news for me. It’s nothing new though. Numerous weeks lately have brought discouraging news from Walt Disney World. I never really thought of myself as a “Foamer”or fanatical Walt Disney World enthusiast (I rather like the Haunted Mansion’s added queue area and think Mission: SPACE is exceptionally entertaining). But, this week I have come to appreciate that I most likely am, a “Foamer”, at least when it comes to Walt Disney World anyway. And I should embrace this new awareness and act on it. I need to recognize that Walt Disney World is no longer for me. Either it has outgrown me or I it. Nonetheless, Walt Disney World and I do not share the same concept of “Disney”any more. I know that I am not alone with my thoughts that Walt Disney World is no longer what I expect, but I will bring to a close my wishes that it were.

    This week, I experienced the new Enchanted Tales with Belle attraction. It was not for me. I’m not going to go into all of the reasons why I didn’t enjoy it; I’ll just say…It was not for me. I read with bewildered disbelief of a press event to announce new benches at Fantasmic! this week. A show that I and countless others know needs aid. But, then I understood that the benches were not for me. The Studios Fantasmic! most likely isn’t even for me. I saw on a popular unofficial website this week the millions of dollars that have been poured into roads and buses at Walt Disney World while the Magic Kingdom continues to present the stalest of entertainment offerings, Celebrate A Dream Come True Parade. At this point, I recognize that neither the parade nor the infrastructure work is for me. Parks Blog posts about cinnamon rolls and pins, in truth, tell me rather straightforwardly, from Disney, that Walt DisneyWorld is not for me. I finally get it!

    Walt Disney World is no longer in the theme park business! It’s a RESORT! It’s in the hotel business! Fastpass Plus, RFID, Next Gen, Enchanted Tales with Belle, none of that is FOR ME! All of this is to build on the resort/hotel business brand. I’m not the consumer (Guest) that Walt Disney World is trying to attract! Disney isn’t building at Walt Disney World for me! The quicker I and others like me grasp this, the better we will all be! But, there’s a positive optimistic idea that washes over me as I come to terms with Walt Disney World no longer being for me: Disney DOES have parks for Guests like me!

    Disneyland U.S.A. is for me! Tokyo Disney is for me! I don’t have to feel all gloom & doom or depressed over news from Walt Disney World. Disney does still create “magic” for “Foamers” like me! I’ve been to Disneyland…I’ve been to Tokyo…I have those amazing feelings when I enter those parks. I’m so keyed up to visit the new DCA later this month (More than I’ve ever been for New Fantasyland). I just need to accept it! The “magic” is not in central Florida any longer for me, but I shouldn’t begrudge others their Art of Animation Resort or their Sorcerers card game! There’s Disney for all of us!

    My fantasy of a better Walt Disney World is dead. And, it should be dead! I can now understand that MY better Walt Disney World was always mine and mine alone. I was selfish. I was looking for something that would never be real. It was unhealthy. I encourage other “Foamers” to recognize the same! And now, I’m moving on… Adieu Walt Disney World… I’m going to Disneyland!

    @TheVolant on Twitter
    Last edited by Supermatt70; 09-10-2012 at 07:39 AM.

  2. #2

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    Re: An Open Letter to Foamers Like Me

    Disneyland is 100 times better than WDW.

    I'm sorry, I just had to put that out there.
    Fear of the unknown.

    They are afraid of new ideas.

    They are loaded with prejudices, not based upon any reality, but based onÖ if something is new, I reject it immediately because itís frightening to me. What they do instead is just stay with the familiar.
    You know, to me, the most beautiful things in all the universe, are the most mysterious.











  3. #3

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    Re: An Open Letter to Foamers Like Me

    I reject the OP's point just like I reject the term "foamer." Current TDO management may not understand what WDW is or its purpose, but the same could have been said of DLR's management in the '90s. DLR got out of its slump. There's no reason WDW can't too. I'm not giving up (though I will enjoy visiting DLR more in the meantime).

    Quote Originally Posted by Chesire View Post
    Disneyland is 100 times better than WDW.

    I'm sorry, I just had to put that out there.
    The current incarnation of Disneyland is of generally higher quality than the current incarnation of WDW. That said, the resorts are so fundamentally different in concept, scope, and purpose, that a simple A > B comparison is somewhat misleading and overgeneralizes quite a bit.
    I knew if this business was ever to get anywhere, if this business was ever to grow, it could never do it by having to answer to someone unsympathetic to its possibilities, by having to answer to someone with only one thought or interest, namely profits. For my idea of how to make profits has differed greatly from those who generally control businesses such as ours. I have blind faith in the policy that quality, tempered with good judgment and showmanship, will win against all odds.
    -Walt Disney



  4. #4

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    Re: An Open Letter to Foamers Like Me

    Quote Originally Posted by PSUMark View Post
    The current incarnation of Disneyland is of generally higher quality than the current incarnation of WDW. That said, the resorts are so fundamentally different in concept, scope, and purpose, that a simple A > B comparison is somewhat misleading and overgeneralizes quite a bit.

    You're completely right, which is why I made my post to begin with. Disneyland & Walt Disney World have fundamentally different purposes. I now get & understand that. I will no longer waste my time on the state of Walt Disney World because it's not for me...I'm not its audience.

    As for "Foamer", I agree...it's a name I'm not fond of...but I must accept that others will put this label on me for my thoughts of WDW and embrace it. WDW in its current concept is not for me, but I'm glad that others can still find enjoyment there. As I said, there is Disney for all of the fans!

  5. #5

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    Re: An Open Letter to Foamers Like Me

    Quote Originally Posted by Supermatt70 View Post
    This has been a really discouraging week of Walt DisneyWorld news for me. It’s nothing newthough. Numerous weeks lately havebrought discouraging news from Walt Disney World. I never really thought of myself as a “Foamer”or fanatical Walt Disney World enthusiast (I rather like the Haunted Mansion’sadded queue area and think Mission: SPACE is exceptionally entertaining). But, this week I have come to appreciate thatI most likely am, a “Foamer”, at least when it comes to Walt Disney Worldanyway. And I should embrace this new awarenessand act on it. I need to recognize thatWalt Disney World is no longer for me. Either it has outgrown me or I it. Nonetheless, Walt Disney World and I do not share the same concept of “Disney”any more. I know that I am not alonewith my thoughts that Walt Disney World is no longer what I expect, but I will bringto a close my wishes that it were.
    This week, I experienced the new Enchanted Tales with Belleattraction. It was not for me. I’m not going to go into all of the reasonswhy I didn’t enjoy it; I’ll just say…It was not for me. I read with bewildered disbelief of a pressevent to announce new benches at Fantasmic! this week. A show that I and countless others know needsaid. But, then I understood that the bencheswere not for me. The Studios Fantasmic! mostlikely isn’t even for me. I saw on apopular unofficial website this week the millions of dollars that have beenpoured into roads and buses at Walt Disney World while the Magic Kingdomcontinues to present the stalest of entertainment offerings, Celebrate A DreamCome True Parade. At this point, I recognizethat neither the parade nor the infrastructure work is for me. Parks Blog posts about cinnamon rolls andpins, in truth, tell me rather straightforwardly, from Disney, that Walt DisneyWorld is not for me. I finally get it!
    Walt Disney World is no longer in the theme parkbusiness! It’s a RESORT! It’s in the hotel business! Fastpass Plus, RFID, Next Gen, EnchantedTales with Belle, none of that is FOR ME! All of this is to build on the resort/hotel business brand. I’m not the consumer (Guest) that Walt DisneyWorld is trying to attract! Disney isn’tbuilding at Walt Disney World for me! Thequicker I and others like me grasp this, the better we will all be! But, there’s a positive optimistic idea thatwashes over me as I come to terms with Walt Disney World no longer being forme: Disney DOES have parks for Guests like me! Disneyland U.S.A. is for me! Tokyo Disney is for me! I don’t haveto feel all gloom & doom or depressed over news from Walt Disney World. Disney does still create “magic” for “Foamers”like me! I’ve been to Disneyland…I’vebeen to Tokyo…I have those amazing feelings when I enter those parks. I’m so keyed up to visit the new DCA laterthis month (More than I’ve ever been for New Fantasyland). I just need to accept it! The “magic” is not in central Florida anylonger for me, but I shouldn’t begrudge others their Art of Animation Resort ortheir Sorcerers card game! There’sDisney for all of us!
    My fantasy of a better Walt Disney World is dead. And, it should be dead! I can now understand that MY better WaltDisney World was always mine and mine alone. I was selfish. I was looking forsomething that would never be real. Itwas unhealthy. I encourage other “Foamers”to recognize the same! And now, I’mmoving on… Adieu Walt Disney World… I’m going to Disneyland!

    @TheVolant on Twitter
    I applaud your post.

    We all must accept some things in our life. One of those is knowing our own minds, or in this case your heart.

  6. #6

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    Re: An Open Letter to Foamers Like Me

    I'm still a Magic Kingdom boy at heart and I regret going to Disneyland. Carsland was not worth the trip but World Of Color was amazing. I'm fine with some people here turning their backs on WDW and maybe not showing up anymore. Basically just a spot for me to move forward in the line to get into the parks. Good luck on your quest to turn the world against WDW. That's too funny.
    Micoofy Duck
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  7. #7

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    Re: An Open Letter to Foamers Like Me

    I hardly felt that the OP was trying to turn the world against WDW. My interpretation was of someone speaking their mind, and accepting what was in their own heart.

  8. #8

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    Re: An Open Letter to Foamers Like Me

    I guess that's the beauty of reading a statement, people are going to take whatever they want from it. No matter what the intent. That is true to everything said to anyone else at any given time.

    But really he did intend to turn more against WDW with this quote "I encourage other “Foamers”to recognize the same!" I for one am not going to do that. I'm proud of that. So he does have intent of at least getting more to turn their attention to Disneyland, which of course has its own flaws that WDW doesn't have.
    Micoofy Duck
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  9. #9

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    Re: An Open Letter to Foamers Like Me

    They ARE different. i also live in Texas and Me, my wife and kids prefer DLR. If you want to go for a weak and just do parks, you are probably better offf at WDW.
    We, however, go for 5 days, spend 3-3 1/2 days in the parks and 2 days at the pool at DLH and Downtown Disney. While WDW has more parks, which means more variety, we find that the 2 parks in Anaheim seem to have just as many attractions as the 4 parks in Orlando. We love WDW also, but not as much as DLR.
    Disneyland is so far and away the best stateside Disney Park and DCA can now put up a pretty good argument for 2nd.
    Kevin Yee, a big WDW guy and writer here for Al Lutz agreed on his recent visit to DLR. He was blown away by the additions and felt DCA was the 2nd best stateside Disney park.

  10. #10

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    Re: An Open Letter to Foamers Like Me

    Yeah, DCA really did have an effect on me... Buena Vista Street, World Of Color, I'm lucky enough to have been able to compare the old DCA to the new one as well and really saw the mind blowing difference.

    What I did notice is I spent more time at DCA over my the course of my last trip over Disneyland park itself. But then DCA has the tired ol' pixar parade and boring ol' bugs land. Wasted space and tired parade. The viewing experience for WoC was horrid unless you knew where to stand and really "fought" to get in the front of the pack. Again Disneyland with its own flaws. I see them while others tend to praise Disneyland despite of them all.

    And I'm aware the exact thing can be said about me, overlooking WDW's flaws and praising WDW. That's just it. I know my view on WDW and other's views on Disneyland are exactly the same. We all know what's wrong with both parks and we favor our own parks and always never really mention the endless flaws of our own beloved park of choice.

    Just like I can't shift anyone here to see the parks my way, I know many here can't change people like me into what we personally favor. It really is just an endless debate over DL vs WDW. Always tiresome and always pointless in my opinion. We like what we like and we praise what we praise and we diss what we diss. But people keep trying to flip people. Like this thread for example.

    Just my rant or "open letter" for today.
    Micoofy Duck
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  11. #11

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    Re: An Open Letter to Foamers Like Me

    Quote Originally Posted by Supermatt70 View Post
    You're completely right, which is why I made my post to begin with. Disneyland & Walt Disney World have fundamentally different purposes. I now get & understand that. I will no longer waste my time on the state of Walt Disney World because it's not for me...I'm not its audience.
    You misunderstand. When I said "the resorts are so fundamentally different in... purpose, that a simple A > B comparison is somewhat misleading and overgeneralizes quite a bit," I was not referring to the purpose of WDW as it exists in the minds of TDO; I was referring to the purpose of WDW as it was conceived by the Imagineers who built it. WDW does not currently live up to that purpose, but I refuse to give up hope that it ever will again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Supermatt70 View Post
    As for "Foamer", I agree...it's a name I'm not fond of...but I must accept that others will put this label on me for my thoughts of WDW and embrace it.
    It's a degrading term for people who care about quality in the parks and understand the art of Imagineering. Walt cared about quality more than anyone. Even Bob Iger notices when AAs are broken on attractions and is unhappy about it. Are they foamers? I will not perpetuate the negative stereotype by using the term. We do not have to accept it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Supermatt70 View Post
    WDW in its current concept is not for me, but I'm glad that others can still find enjoyment there. As I said, there is Disney for all of the fans!
    This is arguably the most damaging concept of all that you are espousing - that WDW in its current state is somehow better for the once-in-a-lifetime family or the once-rarely tourists. How? How do broken AAs and surly CMs and jacked up prices and cloned attractions positively impact anyone's vacation? Whether the tourist in question knows/cares a whit about Disney or not, those are all negative things for anyone's vacation. You're trying to rationalize what WDW is in order to feel better about it. That helps no one.

    Now, I agree that if you're constantly walking around 24/7 with heartburn due to WDW's current state, your life may be a little unbalanced, but the antidote to that is proper perspective on life; not rationalizing WDW's defects so that they become "features" for some mythical group of tourists whose vacation is somehow better because the Diamond Horseshoe Revue is closed and Future World sucks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Micoofy Duck View Post
    I guess that's the beauty of reading a statement, people are going to take whatever they want from it. No matter what the intent. That is true to everything said to anyone else at any given time.

    But really he did intend to turn more against WDW with this quote "I encourage other “Foamers”to recognize the same!"
    That's not "the beauty of reading a statement," that's you misunderstanding what he wrote. He was encouraging other "Foamers" (i.e.: people who are already dissatisfied with WDW) to give up on hoping that WDW will ever get better and just enjoy DLR. He wasn't trying to change anyone's opinions on the parks - he was actually making the argument that WDW is not intended for people who are significantly bothered by its current failings.
    I knew if this business was ever to get anywhere, if this business was ever to grow, it could never do it by having to answer to someone unsympathetic to its possibilities, by having to answer to someone with only one thought or interest, namely profits. For my idea of how to make profits has differed greatly from those who generally control businesses such as ours. I have blind faith in the policy that quality, tempered with good judgment and showmanship, will win against all odds.
    -Walt Disney



  12. #12

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    Re: An Open Letter to Foamers Like Me

    Quote Originally Posted by PSUMark View Post

    That's not "the beauty of reading a statement," that's you misunderstanding what he wrote. He was encouraging other "Foamers" (i.e.: people who are already dissatisfied with WDW) to give up on hoping that WDW will ever get better and just enjoy DLR. He wasn't trying to change anyone's opinions on the parks - he was actually making the argument that WDW is not intended for people who are significantly bothered by its current failings.
    Once again, the beauty of reading a statement is we take what we want from it and for you to tell me i'm wrong is just plain weird but expected from you. Who are you to correct me on what I misunderstood. Who but yourself put you in a position to tell me or anyone else what or how I should take a statement. I mean seriously. Just stop, it's weird for you to do that.

    It's an open letter. I responded. I saw this an attempt to push people in a direction, a single view point. I did not like that. I voiced my opinion on the matter and that's how it is going to be from here on out. It's always going to be like that with me, if you're attempting to deal with me. Just saying.
    Micoofy Duck
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  13. #13

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    Re: An Open Letter to Foamers Like Me

    I think people really don't understand the context of foamer

    Foamer refers to the foaming at the mouth of creatures that are 'crazed' due to rabies.

    The idea here is, actions are exaggerated, things that should be nothing cause a great response - like the crazed animal that attacks completely out of character.

    It has nothing to do with passion for the product, it's about disproportionate behavior to some input.

    I think the thread the op is referring to was one about a local news channel running a teaser ad.. And with that tiny bit of isolated, insubstational bit from a local news channel... People were expecting Disney to announce the second coming of christ and got upset when that's not what it was.

    People worked themselves into a frenzy over nothing and with virtually nothing to go on.

    That is not healthy behavior in any part of your life.
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  14. #14

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    Re: An Open Letter to Foamers Like Me

    Quote Originally Posted by Micoofy Duck View Post
    Once again, the beauty of reading a statement is we take what we want from it and for you to tell me i'm wrong is just plain weird but expected from you. Who are you to correct me on what I misunderstood. Who but yourself put you in a position to tell me or anyone else what or how I should take a statement. I mean seriously. Just stop, it's weird for you to do that.

    It's an open letter. I responded. I saw this an attempt to push people in a direction, a single view point. I did not like that. I voiced my opinion on the matter and that's how it is going to be from here on out. It's always going to be like that with me, if you're attempting to deal with me. Just saying.
    I'll leave it to the author to correct me if I'm wrong, but the "beauty of a statement" is that it means what the author intends it to mean.

    Conversely, if "the beauty of reading a statement is that we take what we want from it," then I'd like to take from your statement quoted above that you agree with me and admit that you were wrong. Does it really work that way?

    In any case, I was just pointing out that you misinterpreted what he wrote - if you re-read it again you'll probably see that; no need to take it personally.

    ---------- Post added 09-08-2012 at 12:27 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    I think people really don't understand the context of foamer

    Foamer refers to the foaming at the mouth of creatures that are 'crazed' due to rabies.

    The idea here is, actions are exaggerated, things that should be nothing cause a great response - like the crazed animal that attacks completely out of character.

    It has nothing to do with passion for the product, it's about disproportionate behavior to some input...

    That is not healthy behavior in any part of your life.
    Yes, that's the denotation of the term; but used in Disney context it usually has a specific connotation that comes from Disney execs referring to message board posters with a critical attitude as "foamers." (i.e.: Disney "foamers" are people who care about the quality of the parks and draw attention to things that are sub-par.) I think that's what most of us were referring to. Again, I guess it's up to the author to specify exactly what he meant.
    I knew if this business was ever to get anywhere, if this business was ever to grow, it could never do it by having to answer to someone unsympathetic to its possibilities, by having to answer to someone with only one thought or interest, namely profits. For my idea of how to make profits has differed greatly from those who generally control businesses such as ours. I have blind faith in the policy that quality, tempered with good judgment and showmanship, will win against all odds.
    -Walt Disney



  15. #15

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    Re: An Open Letter to Foamers Like Me

    Quote Originally Posted by PSUMark View Post
    I'll leave it to the author to correct me if I'm wrong, but the "beauty of a statement" is that it means what the author intends it to mean.

    Conversely, if "the beauty of reading a statement is that we take what we want from it," then I'd like to take from your statement quoted above that you agree with me and admit that you were wrong. Does it really work that way?

    In any case, I was just pointing out that you misinterpreted what he wrote - if you re-read it again you'll probably see that; no need to take it personally.
    This is hilarious. I can definitely see what kind of a poster you are as you continue and continue to do whatever you're attempting to do, correct me, fix me, point me in the "right" direction, really it's about you and you feeling you've put me right.

    I really should just tell you to put your time elsewhere and really understand that you have zero... how should i put this, success in doing whatever it is you think you're doing with me, whether it be calling me out or getting me to admit anything.

    For you to truely believe I took it personally is on you. I am just responding to you since you focused in on me.

    And with this we should be done with this funny attempt from you to ping pong back and forth a statement of mine. Back to watching my vintage YouTube Magic Kingdom WDW special. Have a magical day.
    Micoofy Duck
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