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  1. #76

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    Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

    Really, this might sound rude, but the only people who will drink are probably going to be middle aged men who bring their children, those are the only people I saw drinking at Epcot, one woman about my age was a liiittttle bit plastered, but I really don't think anyone will have too much in the Magic Kingdom, honestly, who gets drunk in the Magic kingdom? While I don't believe that drinking is necessary in the disney parks. I don't think anyone needs to worry about rowdyness. Having just turned of the drinking age, I should want alcohol everywhere, so I'm told. Not at Disney though. I thought it was unnecessary at Epcot. But I guess they NOT a cultural experience.

  2. #77

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    Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine711 View Post
    Really, this might sound rude, but the only people who will drink are probably going to be middle aged men who bring their children, those are the only people I saw drinking at Epcot
    Not a good assumption...

    Go back and find a trip report from the Micechat crew themselves on their EPCOT trips.. and the majority of them don't have kids.. and they are largely 50/50 in male/female
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  3. #78

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    Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

    Teetotaling Bronco from Utah, I wasn't going to respond to your post (#64 on page 5), but a couple of things in it are still bugging me a day after I read it. I've quoted part of it below.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bronco21 View Post
    . . . The only reason
    my family started going to Disney parks in the first place
    was the atmosphere that the lack of booze created.
    The fact that I could go up to any food/ drink cart and get anything I wanted without worrying about getting in trouble
    [Trouble? From whom and exactly for what?] for ordering something alcoholic by accident (has happened multiple times at DCA) was very unique to Disney. . .
    . . if you don't think people get drunk in the parks, I can testify that it happends a lot (especially in EPCOT). I've only been to WDW 2 times and both times I was approached/ assaulted by moderate to extremely drunk individuals in World Showcase both trips.
    EPCOT has been selling delicious alcoholic beverages to responsible adults since it opened, yet you visited EPCOT twice. And you claim that you have ("multiple times") at DCA ordered alcohol accidentally. Have you also ever "accidentally" gotten a lap dance at a strip club? ["Your honor I object to JCruise86's. . " "Withdrawn." "Jcruise, you're this close to the litter box!" "Sorry, your honor."]

    Mr. Bronco, that's pretty bad luck being "assaulted" by drunk people both times you went to EPCOT. I have never been assaulted by a drunk person in my life and I'm from Milwaukee, "a city that means beer," and I bartended for a couple of years.

    I have never before questioned the veracity of a Micechat witness before, but ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I ask you to reread Bronco21's testimony over carefully before you deny us Irish Catholics the pleasure of a little nip with dinner. If Mr. Romney & Mr. Ryan can exist on the same ticket, can't we all just get along? I rest, till another Micechatter inspires my incontinent fingertips.

  4. #79

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    Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

    Quote Originally Posted by jcruise86 View Post
    Teetotaling Bronco from Utah, I wasn't going to respond to your post (#64 on page 5), but a couple of things in it are still bugging me a day after I read it. I've quoted part of it below.

    EPCOT has been selling delicious alcoholic beverages to responsible adults since it opened, yet you visited EPCOT twice. And you claim that you have ("multiple times") at DCA ordered alcohol accidentally. Have you also ever "accidentally" gotten a lap dance at a strip club? ["Your honor I object to JCruise86's. . " "Withdrawn." "Jcruise, you're this close to the litter box!" "Sorry, your honor."]

    Mr. Bronco, that's pretty bad luck being "assaulted" by drunk people both times you went to EPCOT. I have never been assaulted by a drunk person in my life and I'm from Milwaukee, "a city that means beer," and I bartended for a couple of years.

    I have never before questioned the veracity of a Micechat witness before, but ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I ask you to reread Bronco21's testimony over carefully before you deny us Irish Catholics the pleasure of a little nip with dinner. If Mr. Romney & Mr. Ryan can exist on the same ticket, can't we all just get along? I rest, till another Micechatter inspires my incontinent fingertips.
    Umm idk what about my post really warranted this response, but I was shoved to the ground, bumped into in line, and had heavily intoxicated guests lay down very very close to me (inside my bubble). Sure I have only been twice, but from my experience (maybe I worded it wrong the first time) unorderly drunk guests is a cause for alarm.

    As for DCA, when you are 12 and a CM firmly explains that you cannot purchase that particular item because it has booze in it, (especially for someone as shy as myself) it can be very upsetting. You can argue all you want about booze in the Magic Kingdom (frankly I don't care), but calling my experiences out because you don't agree with my point of view is baffling to me. I never said I wanted prohibition back, I stated why I don't like the addition of alcohol to the Magic Kingdom. If you don't like my point of view, fine I really am not going to get upset about Disney choosing to sell alcohol in the parks.

    What I do get upset with is the fact that you used stereotypes about Utah to classify my Political party, preferences about alcohol, ect. I'm from Utah get over it. You're from Milwaukee? Good for you. What does that have to do with my feelings of Disney additions? I come to Micechat to discuss what I feel about the parks, I don't come here to talk about my political or religious beliefs and, if I'm not mistaken, is banned according to Micechat rules. Anyways, have fun expressing your happiness about booze in the parks. Meanwhile I will be busy enjoying Disneyland where booze has yet to infiltrate.
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  5. #80

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    Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronco21 View Post
    Umm idk what about my post really warranted this response, but I was shoved to the ground, bumped into in line, and had heavily intoxicated guests lay down very very close to me (inside my bubble). Sure I have only been twice, but from my experience (maybe I worded it wrong the first time) unorderly drunk guests is a cause for alarm.

    As for DCA, when you are 12 and a CM firmly explains that you cannot purchase that particular item because it has booze in it, (especially for someone as shy as myself) it can be very upsetting. You can argue all you want about booze in the Magic Kingdom (frankly I don't care), but calling my experiences out because you don't agree with my point of view is baffling to me. I never said I wanted prohibition back, I stated why I don't like the addition of alcohol to the Magic Kingdom. If you don't like my point of view, fine I really am not going to get upset about Disney choosing to sell alcohol in the parks.

    What I do get upset with is the fact that you used stereotypes about Utah to classify my Political party, preferences about alcohol, ect. I'm from Utah get over it. You're from Milwaukee? Good for you. What does that have to do with my feelings of Disney additions? I come to Micechat to discuss what I feel about the parks, I don't come here to talk about my political or religious beliefs and, if I'm not mistaken, is banned according to Micechat rules. Anyways, have fun expressing your happiness about booze in the parks. Meanwhile I will be busy enjoying Disneyland where booze has yet to infiltrate.
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  6. #81

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    Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

    They're serving wine with dinner at an upscale restaurant. Some of you are acting like they'll be selling bottles of vodka on the ODV carts.

  7. #82

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    Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

    Here is how i feel(like anyone cares....lol ) The other "fine dining" resturaunts serve alcohol though out the resort. I think it would be nice to have a fine dining experience with your kids without the presence of any booze. They had the opportunity to achieve this there, and they blew it. Kids are the base of what the MK was based on. Dont get me wrong, i love a cold beer or glass of wine with my meals like many other people do. As for there being drunks at the MK, dont think there isnt a bottle or 2 stashed in a diaper bag on the lot of MK.

  8. #83

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    Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

    Quote Originally Posted by redrhino54 View Post
    Here is how i feel(like anyone cares....lol ) The other "fine dining" resturaunts serve alcohol though out the resort. I think it would be nice to have a fine dining experience with your kids without the presence of any booze. They had the opportunity to achieve this there, and they blew it. Kids are the base of what the MK was based on. Dont get me wrong, i love a cold beer or glass of wine with my meals like many other people do. As for there being drunks at the MK, dont think there isnt a bottle or 2 stashed in a diaper bag on the lot of MK.
    I have been to MK with people who have replaced their water bottles with Vodka or Gin, and are completely hammered by noon.
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  9. #84

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    Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    Because I would say they would introduce the product where it makes sense to do so... not just because 'HEY NOW WE CAN!'. Your premise is this is a damn, that will burst and flood the park. There is nothing to suggest that, and Disney in the other parks where they do sell alcohol still do not sell it EVERYWHERE, nor is it seen everywhere.

    Probably to soften the blow more than anything. Or as a test... Or any number of reasons ranging from money to change menus to lack of interest. We don't know, but there is nothing to suggest that you'll be buying buds from the balloon vendor a week later. The availability of alcohol has yet to overrun any major park except in DCA.
    You still seem to misunderstand so I'll try this again. I'm not asking for the business reasons behind why Disney has chosen to only roll this out at Be Our Guest for the time being - I could've come up with the same conjectural answers on my own. I'm asking you, philosophically, if the MK is just like every other park and the tradition is meaningless/outdated, why shouldn't Disney be selling alcohol from kiosks in the hub (as the equivalent happens at the three other parks in WDW)? If there's nothing special about the MK or the tradition, then why shouldn't it be available as freely in the MK as it is in other parks?

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    Headline News to the hardcore fans - probably not much more than passing curiosity to anyone else.
    Who do you think the Disney Parks blog is written for?

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    Yeah, and you still have stuff like this
    Trial: Woman assaulted at Disney’s Tea Cup Ride | Newsnet 14

    Without alcohol at the dinner table. The idea alcohol at dinner will bring in some new bad element is simply fear-mongering. It doesn't happen at the other parks where its available.
    I did not, have not, and am not advancing the argument that you seem to be arguing against here. As I've said numerous times before, I don't have a problem with alcohol in the parks categorically, and don't believe that this will lead to a bad element in the parks. (If so, I'm a part of that element as I imbibe myself sometimes at Epcot and DAK.) My concern is with the tradition in the MK and what it stands for.

    ---------- Post added 09-16-2012 at 09:36 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Dapper Dan View Post
    Of course they already had the Liberty Tree Tavern without Sam Adams and a pretty dry Mile Long Bar. The big question now is if this will lead to more locations where drinks are available. I'm not really worried about the public drunkenness issue since people can already get hammered doing the monorail loop pub crawl and end up in the park as long as they can keep it together just long enough to make it through the entrance.

    On it's own, this isn't the worst thing that's ever happened, but with the steady decline of standards across nearly all other aspects of the parks, this change of policy seems a bit insulting to the purists or traditionalists or whatever we call those folks these days. All it is is the latest piece of evidence that the folks in charge now just see Walt as another Disney character. He's the folky Midwestern idealist always talking about how he and his brother built the company up from nothing on the business model of quality above all else. Middle America just eats that up. They just slap his face on books or put out some DVDs of old material or start a fan club, but that's it. He's just the character they sell to adults the same way they sell Mickey to toddlers, Cinderella to 8 year olds, and whoever the teen idol is this year. Nobody has actually believed any of the stuff Walt said in years. They have a company to run for crying out loud. They don't need advice from a guy that died half a century ago and built a successful entertainment business out of nothing.
    Once again, perfectly stated Dapper Dan. Couldn't have said it better myself.

    ---------- Post added 09-16-2012 at 09:42 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by mkcoastie View Post
    .....and then he planned for Club 33 to serve drinks in the park. Why? Well, he SAYS why. Walt was not anti-alcohol. He says in that very statement that he drinks sometimes, but he wanted to avoid drinks in the park "BEACUSE that brings in a rowdy element." His point was not to make some valiant stand against booze. He was obviously O.K. with Club 33, and the logical conclusion is that he felt this exception would not bring in the rowdy element (makes sense, Club 33 is extremely exclusive and would cater to a decidedly "non-rowdy" clientele).
    If you're going to try to put Walt's statement in context, then you have to really put it in context. Club 33, as originally planned during Walt's lifetime, was going to be more than just "extremely exclusive" - it was a private restaurant for Walt to entertain his personal guests. The private club that anyone (with the money) could apply to didn't come until later. So, in essence, Walt was OK with alcohol for him, his family, and his VIP guests.

    I would agree with you that alcohol at Be Our Guest wouldn't necessarily make Walt turn in his grave (the current transportation situation and abandonment of EPCOT at WDW would do that) but it's one more step away from a tradition that honored Walt. Why? Because TDO decided it was worth making a few extra bucks. That's disappointing.

    ---------- Post added 09-16-2012 at 09:52 PM ----------

    One last point... A lot of people have said the reason we need this is because lots of guests ask where they can get a drink in the MK and are incredulous/perturbed to find out that they need to go elsewhere for booze.

    That may or may not be a valid reason for alcohol in the MK (I personally think it isn't), but adding drinks to Be Our Guest at dinner doesn't help that problem at all. Now, instead of saying "I'm sorry sir, you'll have to visit one of the resorts or other parks," the CMs will say, "I'm sorry sir, you'll have to visit one of the resorts or other parks, or try to get into this fairly expensive restaurant (for dinner only) that generally requires reservations 6 months in advance, and there you'll be able to order a wine or beer (but no more than two) which you cannot leave the restaurant with."

    Does that really address that "problem??"
    Last edited by PSUMark; 09-16-2012 at 05:43 PM.
    I knew if this business was ever to get anywhere, if this business was ever to grow, it could never do it by having to answer to someone unsympathetic to its possibilities, by having to answer to someone with only one thought or interest, namely profits. For my idea of how to make profits has differed greatly from those who generally control businesses such as ours. I have blind faith in the policy that quality, tempered with good judgment and showmanship, will win against all odds.
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  10. #85

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    Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

    Quote Originally Posted by PSUMark View Post
    You still seem to misunderstand so I'll try this again. I'm not asking for the business reasons behind why Disney has chosen to only roll this out at Be Our Guest for the time being - I could've come up with the same conjectural answers on my own. I'm asking you, philosophically, if the MK is just like every other park and the tradition is meaningless/outdated, why shouldn't Disney be selling alcohol from kiosks in the hub (as the equivalent happens at the three other parks in WDW)? If there's nothing special about the MK or the tradition, then why shouldn't it be available as freely in the MK as it is in other parks?
    For the same reasons they don't sell pretzels at every food station... or ice cream.. or frozen slushies.

    Quote Originally Posted by PSUMark View Post
    Who do you think the Disney Parks blog is written for?
    A lot wider audience then the hardcore fans. From what I've seen on most sites, the majority isn't concerned with this.

    Quote Originally Posted by PSUMark View Post
    I did not, have not, and am not advancing the argument that you seem to be arguing against here. As I've said numerous times before, I don't have a problem with alcohol in the parks categorically, and don't believe that this will lead to a bad element in the parks. (If so, I'm a part of that element as I imbibe myself sometimes at Epcot and DAK.) My concern is with the tradition in the MK and what it stands for.
    If you don't believe it will bring in a bad element, there is no reason to cherish the old policy. The policy was based on Walt's opinion that bringing in alcohol would bring in a rowdy element. If you don't agree it will, why hold onto a concept you've admitted is based on a fallacy? People are more attached to the notion of a 'walt-ism' instead of looking at what Walt was trying to do.
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  11. #86

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    Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    For the same reasons they don't sell pretzels at every food station... or ice cream.. or frozen slushies.
    If my question had been, "Why shouldn't they serve alcohol at literally every TSR/QSR/stand/ODF location in the MK?" your response would make sense. My question actually was, "Why shouldn't it be available as freely in the MK as it is in other parks?" It's a simple truth that all three of the other parks sell alcohol from kiosks in central locations. If the tradition is outdated/pointless and the MK is just like every other park, why shouldn't the MK do that?

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    If you don't believe it will bring in a bad element, there is no reason to cherish the old policy.
    That's your opinion; mine differs. I believe the tradition is valuable simply for its own sake and what it symbolizes. I also personally like the quaintness and innocence of an alcohol-free MK and, even as someone who enjoys a good beer, I don't think there's a need for alcohol in the MK.
    I knew if this business was ever to get anywhere, if this business was ever to grow, it could never do it by having to answer to someone unsympathetic to its possibilities, by having to answer to someone with only one thought or interest, namely profits. For my idea of how to make profits has differed greatly from those who generally control businesses such as ours. I have blind faith in the policy that quality, tempered with good judgment and showmanship, will win against all odds.
    -Walt Disney



  12. #87

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    Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

    Quote Originally Posted by PSUMark View Post
    If my question had been, "Why shouldn't they serve alcohol at literally every TSR/QSR/stand/ODF location in the MK?" your response would make sense. My question actually was, "Why shouldn't it be available as freely in the MK as it is in other parks?"
    The answer is the same.. the food servings are based on decisions of what to offer, where.. not just a free for all. I could really care less if they sold it as a ODV because I doubt many people would buy it. I've never ever seen a alcohol container be an issue anywhere on property other than World Showcase. I doubt it's availability would all of a sudden cause this great surge of tailgating mentality everyone is so scared of.. since it doesn't exist anywhere else on property (except again.. World Showcase.. mainly agitated during F&W)

    Quote Originally Posted by PSUMark View Post
    That's your opinion; mine differs. I believe the tradition is valuable simply for its own sake and what it symbolizes
    So you acknowledge your hold is purely on resisting changing the status quo and not actual concern over the impact of change. Thankfully, the company has been more progressive than you, and has acknowledged such emotional death-grips aren't warranted. Else, we'd wouldn't have females in executive positions, their open policy on gays, seasonal overlays, DME, and lots of other things that Walt didn't or wouldn't do.. but it made sense to MOVE ON and evaluate things in a accurate context.
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  13. #88

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    Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

    Oh heaven forbid... someone wants to have some Wine with their $80 dinner...

    Come on people, it's 2012... lighten up a bit.

  14. #89

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    Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    So you acknowledge your hold is purely on resisting changing the status quo and not actual concern over the impact of change. Thankfully, the company has been more progressive than you, and has acknowledged such emotional death-grips aren't warranted. Else, we'd wouldn't have females in executive positions, their open policy on gays, seasonal overlays, DME, and lots of other things that Walt didn't or wouldn't do.. but it made sense to MOVE ON and evaluate things in a accurate context.
    You're putting words in my mouth going WAY beyond what I said and I think this is pretty uncalled for and borders on personal attack. I like this particular tradition for what it represents and want it to continue. Your implication that the policies regarding female executives or same-sex partner benefits or seasonal overlays somehow represent "traditions" is absurd and beneath your usual quality of contribution to MiceChat. The fact that I like this tradition for what it represents doesn't mean that I have an obsession with the status quo and I certainly don't want things frozen in 1966 or 1971 or 1982 or some other arbitrary year. There are a TON of things about the status quo that I wish would change and Disney is all too comfortable with.

    I'm fully capable of having an opinion on things that's nuanced enough to think that some things should change and others shouldn't. The fact that you seem to think change vs. tradition is an all or nothing trade-off would imply that you're the extremist here; not me.
    I knew if this business was ever to get anywhere, if this business was ever to grow, it could never do it by having to answer to someone unsympathetic to its possibilities, by having to answer to someone with only one thought or interest, namely profits. For my idea of how to make profits has differed greatly from those who generally control businesses such as ours. I have blind faith in the policy that quality, tempered with good judgment and showmanship, will win against all odds.
    -Walt Disney



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    Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

    How is it respecting tradition when you pick and chose which practices from the same man were worthy of continuation and ones that are not?

    You end up making those distinctions by evaluating the practice again, in the now, rather than following them blindly. Yet that is an evaluation some refuse to do. To behave that way justifiably would mean to follow all past behaviors blindly... And as already pointed out, we can see how flawed a mentality that would be.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
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