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  1. #91

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    Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneytwins View Post
    Walt didn't want alcohol in the parks because the thought it would bring rowdiness. The price of the beer prohibits the rowdiness lol

    My attitude towards "It a money move" doesn't concern me. A company is supposed to find ways to increase profits, not sit there and look pretty.
    Walt didn't want his parks to stink of flat beer like county fairs, boardwalks and other amusement parks of his time often did. The sale of expensive drinks at Epcot, DCA and Disneyland Paris have not had that effect. This won't either.
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  2. #92

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    Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

    WOW ok it's taken me awhile to catch up to this thread in it's entirety, PSUMark I understand your points I think, you think that we should honor tradition for the traditions sake of it...i.e. not serving booze at the MK since the park was built up until now, but do you really think that TWDC corporation would not have done feeler surveys, talked to guests, repeat guests, and the like before coming to this decision to break with tradition? If it would have been shown that many people who visit the MK would like to keep the park alcohol free, or break from that tradition and be allowed to order a glass of cherry(sp?) or beer with their dinner?

    I mean I can see why people don't agree that alcohol should be allowed in the park, personally I can take it or leave it, I won't order a 9$+ pint of beer at the restaurant but some people enjoy that one pint and leave it at that. Automatically it seems that some people are assuming that this will lead some people to abuse the policy and get hand over fist plastered, as a former waiter I can say that it is part of the waiter's responsibilities to monitor their guests and prevent that sort of thing. If an accident happens after that person is intoxicated and is allowed to leave the restaurant, the restaurant and waiter are held responsible for not helping to prevent that accident.

    Overall I think some people need to take a step back, take a deep breath and come back. Emotions are obviously running high in this thread and it's more productive to leave these intense emotions out of it.
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  3. #93

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    Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    How is it respecting tradition when you pick and chose which practices from the same man were worthy of continuation and ones that are not?

    You end up making those distinctions by evaluating the practice again, in the now, rather than following them blindly. Yet that is an evaluation some refuse to do. To behave that way justifiably would mean to follow all past behaviors blindly... And as already pointed out, we can see how flawed a mentality that would be.
    And perhaps my criteria are different. Perhaps I value the tradition because it was in fact intentionally kept as a *tradition* and not a policy that just happened to be in effect at the time of Walt's death (as opposed to, for instance, a lack of seasonal overlays). Perhaps I value the quaintness and uniqueness of an alcohol free Magic Kingdom (or DL or TDL or HKDL). We can keep going back and forth on this forever, but your insistence that one is a slave to the past unless they come to your exact conclusion on this particular issue is both arrogant and absurd.
    I knew if this business was ever to get anywhere, if this business was ever to grow, it could never do it by having to answer to someone unsympathetic to its possibilities, by having to answer to someone with only one thought or interest, namely profits. For my idea of how to make profits has differed greatly from those who generally control businesses such as ours. I have blind faith in the policy that quality, tempered with good judgment and showmanship, will win against all odds.
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  4. #94

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    Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

    Quote Originally Posted by PSUMark View Post
    We can keep going back and forth on this forever, but your insistence that one is a slave to the past unless they come to your exact conclusion on this particular issue is both arrogant and absurd.
    I only expect equal action and logic. Picking and choosing which is 'policy' and which is 'tradition' without looking at their roots and how they came to be is not looking at things fairly or logically.
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  5. #95

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    Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

    By putting alcohol into MK, it's another dent in the Disney Difference. The park becomes more like Universal and other theme parks. MK is the only place in the huge resort that does not have alcohol; that made it special. The Be Our Guest restaurant is targeted at young families, particularly with little girls, there's no need to add alcohol to the menu looking at the target demographic except to make a few extra bucks... but at the cost (again) of what made MK magical in the first place.

  6. #96

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    Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

    Why does a lack of alcohol make a park special? I've never gone to a magic kingdom park and thought "wow, you know what makes this park great? The lack of booze!" Epcot and Animal Kkngdom are special because they're great parks. Booze or no booze. Why do we care about something Walt said years ago about a park that isn't the park we're talking about? Let the people drink. Those of us who don't want to don't have to. Once again, we've officially run out of problems if this is the issue that is binding our panties.

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  7. #97

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    Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

    Quote Originally Posted by Pizzapants View Post
    Why does a lack of alcohol make a park special? I've never gone to a magic kingdom park and thought "wow, you know what makes this park great? The lack of booze!"
    To be fair, there are many things about the Magic Kingdom experience that register at subsconscious levels, without the guest actually stopping and consxioulsy thinking about them. That's part of the "magic."

    Anyway, I think it's a pretty big leap from "I liked this particular quaint little tradition" to "GRAR ALL CHANGE BAD." Nostalgia is an incalculably huge part of the MK.

  8. #98

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    Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

    Man, people really will complain about anything.

  9. #99

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    Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

    So... Walt said the now infamous "rowdy" quote about DL... So if it mattered at all today then why is "booze" allowed in all other parks? If it was that sacred wouldn't it been across the board altogether? Also, as far as drunks roaming the parks... That's a bunch of bull. I've been a drunk roaming Epcot before and I didn't rain on anyone else's parade.
    The whole things is a wine or a fine beer with a meal. Big deal. It's friggin happening so quite whining about it.
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  10. #100

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    Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

    A bunch of you are acting like it's being sold at vending stands. It's in ONE location in the park, and guests can't even leave the restaurant with it. Some of you are so ridiculously petty and bitter.

  11. #101

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    Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    I only expect equal action and logic. Picking and choosing which is 'policy' and which is 'tradition' without looking at their roots and how they came to be is not looking at things fairly or logically.
    My criteria for tradition vs. policy:

    Is Walt on the record regarding his wishes in this area?
    Alcohol: yes
    Seasonal overlays/Same-sex benefits/female exectuives/DME: no

    Has this intentionally been kept as a tradition by TWDC to honor Walt for decades?
    Alcohol: yes
    Seasonal overlays/Same-sex benefits/female exectuives/DME: no

    Is this necessary for the sake of the reputation/moral credibility/legal status of the company?
    Alcohol/seasonal overlays/DME: no
    Same-sex benefits/female exectuives: yes

    Will some guests feel that the uniqueness/"Disney-ness" of the experience is compromised by changing this?
    Alcohol: yes
    Seasonal overlays: possibly, but I've never heard of anyone expressing this
    Same-sex benefits: probably some do, but let's please not go there
    Female exectuives/DME: no

    Based on the above criteria, I consider the alcohol restrictions in the MK style parks to be a tradition worth protecting, while the rest I would classify as simply policy. There's your equal logic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coastierox View Post
    It's friggin happening so quite whining about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aladdin6592 View Post
    Some of you are so ridiculously petty and bitter.
    So glad that we have you to put the "unenlightened" among us in line. Just because something is happening doesn't mean we have to like it. I think we're allowed to not be fanbois cheerleaders on here. I don't think this is "the last sacred cow" or the end of the world; I don't think this will lead to "rowdiness" and a "bad element;" I don't think there's anything wrong with legal alcohol consumption in moderation (and I enjoy it myself); but this is something that disappoints me and I wish hadn't happened. As King Eric put it, "to me it was just something that was part of Walt's legacy... Is it going to ruin the park? No. But does it make the separation from Walt even further, yes." Neither of us (or Dapper Dan) are teetotalers, and we're not telling you you're horrible if you're happy about this; but we're also allowed to not be happy about this and think that this shouldn't have happened. We don't need your permission for that.
    I knew if this business was ever to get anywhere, if this business was ever to grow, it could never do it by having to answer to someone unsympathetic to its possibilities, by having to answer to someone with only one thought or interest, namely profits. For my idea of how to make profits has differed greatly from those who generally control businesses such as ours. I have blind faith in the policy that quality, tempered with good judgment and showmanship, will win against all odds.
    -Walt Disney



  12. #102

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    Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

    Quote Originally Posted by PSUMark View Post
    So glad that we have you to put the "unenlightened" among us in line. Just because something is happening doesn't mean we have to like it. I think we're allowed to not be fanbois cheerleaders on here. I don't think this is "the last sacred cow" or the end of the world; I don't think this will lead to "rowdiness" and a "bad element;" I don't think there's anything wrong with legal alcohol consumption in moderation (and I enjoy it myself); but this is something that disappoints me and I wish hadn't happened. As King Eric put it, "to me it was just something that was part of Walt's legacy... Is it going to ruin the park? No. But does it make the separation from Walt even further, yes." Neither of us (or Dapper Dan) are teetotalers, and we're not telling you you're horrible if you're happy about this; but we're also allowed to not be happy about this and think that this shouldn't have happened. We don't need your permission for that.
    Yes, we're "unenlightened" because we aren't afraid of some change. Walt Disney is dead guys. I hate to break it to you. And while he is the reason for Disney Parks, and the Disney Company in general, he's no longer with us, and quite frankly, he shouldn't have so much bearing on decision making.

    He made decisions and made statements based on the lifestyles of the 1950s and 1960s. This isn't 1950 anymore. We don't have Drive-In Movie theaters, we don't have organized sit-down family dinners anymore. Things have changed. Our culture has changed and at some point we all need to accept that. I think I'd be more inclined to agree with you if 1.) Alcohol wasn't already available at other parks (with no consequence) and 2.) the alcohol wasn't being restricted to one area. However, the fact of the matter is this: alcohol has been readily available in Disney Parks for years now, and the alcohol at the Magic Kingdom won't be nearly as available.

    I don't think this is a bad thing at all, and for some of you to not only criticize the move, but to criticize those of us who take no issue with it, "unenlightened", is unfathomably and purely idiotic.

  13. #103

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    Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

    Quote Originally Posted by Aladdin6592 View Post
    Yes, we're "unenlightened" because...
    I was sarcastically referring to myself and others who hold my viewpoint as "unenlightened." I apologize that I apparently did not make that clear enough.
    I knew if this business was ever to get anywhere, if this business was ever to grow, it could never do it by having to answer to someone unsympathetic to its possibilities, by having to answer to someone with only one thought or interest, namely profits. For my idea of how to make profits has differed greatly from those who generally control businesses such as ours. I have blind faith in the policy that quality, tempered with good judgment and showmanship, will win against all odds.
    -Walt Disney



  14. #104

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    Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

    Quote Originally Posted by Coastierox View Post
    So... Walt said the now infamous "rowdy" quote about DL... So if it mattered at all today then why is "booze" allowed in all other parks? If it was that sacred wouldn't it been across the board altogether? Also, as far as drunks roaming the parks... That's a bunch of bull. I've been a drunk roaming Epcot before and I didn't rain on anyone else's parade.
    The whole things is a wine or a fine beer with a meal. Big deal. It's friggin happening so quite whining about it.
    Here here! Disney doesn't care about booze traditions if it's offered at every other park. And neither should we.

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  15. #105

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    Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

    Quote Originally Posted by ttintagel View Post
    To be fair, there are many things about the Magic Kingdom experience that register at subsconscious levels, without the guest actually stopping and consxioulsy thinking about them. That's part of the "magic."
    I do agree with this. But I can't see how beverages at one restaurant will have any effect on the vibe of the rest of the park. I think most of us who don't have a problem with this move probably would have a problem if booze was going to be served at kiosks, if they opened up a 4th window at Cosmic Ray's that was a bar, etc. I don't think, as some people seem to believe, that this is in any way a test case that will in the near future result in folks cruising around Main Street with martinis in hand. I do think that they might allow alcohol at some of the existing restaurants. But I'm betting that the streets of the MK will remain safe from the scourge of heavy drinkers.

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