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  1. #31

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    Re: Avatar Plans Leaked

    Do you think Disney ever "accidentally" let's a simple concept plan or something like this leak out, and then their internal intelligence department gauges our reactions to it as to whether or not it's a good idea?
    Or is that just my normal every-day paranoia?

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  2. #32

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    Re: Avatar Plans Leaked

    nm

  3. #33

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    Re: Avatar Plans Leaked

    So, reading other sites there is speculation that the technology used for this new Avatar simulator will also be used for the rumored Iron Man ride at Disneyland. Would not suprise me at all though it will be another ride I won't go on...no can do sickulators.

  4. #34

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    Re: Avatar Plans Leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by goofy donald View Post
    lol its also a little more or less a bunch of blue aliens that have ponytail sex on a far off planet that is being invaded by highly advanced humans that have developed cyborg replicas to infiltrate their culture. yep that reallly fits in Disney's tribute to the planet earth, its flora and fauna, and their preservation
    Ok, your position on Avatar as a theme park concept is noted - you don't have to keep repeating it and trying to derail this thread. Can we please discuss something about the project without this derail?

    ---------- Post added 10-26-2012 at 07:38 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Pizzapants View Post
    Do you think Disney ever "accidentally" let's a simple concept plan or something like this leak out, and then their internal intelligence department gauges our reactions to it as to whether or not it's a good idea?
    Or is that just my normal every-day paranoia?
    These are images from a larger packet of information that appears to have been put together for legit uses like bidding or scoping work. The information was being circulated a bit before someone took the images and posted them separately from the larger info packet. There is a lot of speculation on if the information was specifically handedly 'loosely' for beneficial reasons. I think they are well beyond 'gauging interest' IMO and any intentional leaks are more to combat the 'avatar is on lifesupport...' type of talk.

    ---------- Post added 10-26-2012 at 07:43 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronco21 View Post
    Am I the only one who isn't suprised that all Avatar Land is is Soarin'+? Its truly sad, but not surprising. I assumed when they announced it that it would have a similar ride system as Soarin'. I hoped for more, but then again this is TDO we are talking about.
    The idea of a flight sim style attraction has been floated from the early days in the project due to the huge role of flying in the film and the 'discovery' part of the character plot in the film as the lead character learns to admire and love pandora with the flying sequence.

    This attraction is obviously very different from Soarin as laid out, but it's unclear on how much it will actually share.. so is it evolutionary or revolutionary is yet to be seen.

    Who knows.. it could end up being more star tours than soarin...

    ---------- Post added 10-26-2012 at 08:03 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneytwins View Post
    I don't think anyone knows what the heck they're looking at. This is exactly why they don't release it to the public.
    Quote Originally Posted by biggsworth View Post
    LOL at judging Blueprints we have no idea what we are looking at or how it will be used
    I think you two will find this post informative...

    Quote Originally Posted by edwardtc
    I'm going to chime in again, if for no other reason than to clear up a few of the misnomers and misconceptions being batted around. Lee and others have done a nice job giving yes and no answers to specific details, but since these drawings have obviously saturated the web already, there are hundreds or thousands of people interpreting them improperly.

    I'm not boasting, but since I draft, design and build commercial buildings for a living, I feel like topics like this are my one and only time to shine and call myself an "expert". I am by no means an insider. I just know exactly what I'm looking at when I see collections of documents like the ones people are seeing today.

    Speaking of these drawings, the few sheets being posted on the web seem to have been acquired from sources completely separate from the venue through which my copy was delivered. Also, many of those out on the web have been photoshopped, had watermarks whited out, and are very low resolution.

    The version I have on my computer is full-sized, original PDF files. The Architectural Plans are 48" wide by 36" tall blueprints - and I just printed a full size copy on our office plotter today. Those little color-coded plans are from an 8.5x11 document that the mechanical engineer produced, showing how many air conditioning units would be needed for the project. Those colored areas are actually HVAC zones, and mean nothing else. And the plans that those colors have been placed on are not exactly identical to the working drawings, but they do imply portions of the ride system, where the architectural ones do not.

    There is also a complete set of foundation and structural steel drawings. There are massive foundations with 80' deep auger-cast piles under each of the four ride apparatuses. This tells me that the ride system is very similar to soarin, in that there is a massive undercarriage that holds up what will likely be a moving set of seats. Whether it just tilts like Soarin, or is on a series of hydraulic cylinders like Star Tours - I don't know. There flat out is NOT enough detail on these plans, no matter what anyone on here says. Period.

    With this said, I would like to offer some bullet point facts (and inferences) that should clear up some of the questions, and bad information being circulated:

    • As of this moment in time, the set of plans and narratives that contractors possess are limited only to this one large building, which contains what Disney is calling an E-Ticket and a C-Ticket. Those words are used throughout the entire set of documents.
    • The C-Ticket APPEARS to be a boat ride, given the meandering course of the ride path as it comes into and leaves the northeast corner of the main building. The vehicles look like boats as well. Calling it a C-Ticket on the plans doesn't give me warm fuzzies. They couldn't do anything less than a Pirates type attraction (which I consider to have extensive theming), but I'm wondering if they'd use their new boat maneuvering patent which allows them to turn a boat and aim guests like an Omnimover does. That would make a lot of sense if they're taking you on a tour through Pandora.
    • The E-Ticket has four isolated theaters, with four isolated ride systems. In no way, shape or form will guests move from one theater to another. They will operate exclusive of each other and there are four purely for the sake of crowd control and throughput. There is one queue that splits guests, via ramps, to one of 3 tiers of loading platforms in each theater. Very similar to soarin, except you board on 3 levels instead of one, and there are 4 theaters instead of 2.
    • There are comments in the narratives that explain to the contractors that the following components of this land will exist, but have not yet been drawn: E-Ticket Retail, QSR, Area Retail, Area Restrooms, Conditioned Queue for C-Ticket.
    • There is also a note in the narrative that the north face of the building will interface with rockscape. And given that the structural steel at the top of the 76' tall building is tapered inward, it becomes clear that this will resemble a mountain of some sort and will literally be covered in rockwork and other thematic elements.
    • The C-Ticket boat ride is only shown in part (a very small part of what can be assumed to be a much longer boat ride). The rest of the ride will likely be under the exterior part of the mountain (north face of building), since guests for the E-Ticket climb a ramp (with a 1:13 slope - making the entire queue wheelchair accessible) and enter the main show building at the 3rd floor, 23' above ground level.
    • The C-Ticket will have it's own queue, and the E-Ticket clearly has its own queue, and all theaters exit down stairways and usher guests back out a single exit point at the north face of the building. There is no cross connection between these two attractions. They are mutually exclusive, and one is not a pre-show for the other.
    • Again, the ride system for the E-Ticket is not clear at all. In the Mechanical Narrative, seats can be identified, but quantities are indiscernible. It is 100% clear that each theater will have 3 tiers of seating, each 12' apart, vertically. It is likely that the carriage may in fact travel up and down, but all guests are looking forward at one arced screen, like in Soarin.
    • The E-Ticket is most assuredly a 3D experience, simply because there are rooms on the floorplan labeled GLASSES STORAGE and GLASSES CLEANING. Kind of a dead giveaway.
    • There are many ride control rooms, a control tower, and several Electrical Rooms on the lower BOH (Back of House) levels. If they're going to use a Jim Cameron produced film using his Morpho technology, they will indeed have the massive electrical and telecommunication infrastructure to operate it.
    • This attraction/land will require a large Cast. There are multi-seat restrooms, a cast break room, and even a cast deployment room. The BOH floor in this building will likely be the home base for all Cast working this land.
    • And to reiterate, what is shown on these plans could be for literally anything. It could become a Little Mermaid attraction. It could become Avatar. It could become a giant flight simulation movie putting the guest in the role of a butterfly. It could be for something none of us have even dreamed of. Perhaps even concepts from Beastly Kingdom. Regardless of the rumors, insider information, renderings, talks of Cameron being in Anaheim - these drawings have absolutely NO firm reference to or promise of an Avatar land. I can't make that more clear. These plans have been so carefully prepared that this facility could have any video plopped into the projectors with a new ride vehicle program - and it becomes anything. And a boat ride.....in an Animal Park.....could be ANYTHING.


    Everything I've said above is true and factual (except for my obvious editorials and assumptions, which I've called out). This is not opinion. This is fact based on my professional review of the plans, narratives, scopes of work, and other documents - as of this moment in time.

    Nothing has been filed with the drainage board. I don't believe any site development plans have been issued to anyone. All we know is that FotLK might move, and they flew one test balloon in the area where this would go. That's all we know, until Disney says otherwise, or they actually build it.

    If anyone would like additional clarifications, or if I missed one of the misnomers going around, feel free to reply (or better yet, PM me). I will not disclose how I obtained the drawings, but I will make note that the construction industry can be tight knit. Florida and Indiana and California may be worlds apart geographically, but not in the electronic world.
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  5. #35

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    Re: Avatar Plans Leaked

    Base on the info it looks like there will be 4 separated theaters. Is this correct? If so how big is 1 theater compared to 1 theater of Soarin? or 2 theaters compared to all of Soarin.
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  6. #36

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    Re: Avatar Plans Leaked

    Thanks flynnibus sounds neat!!!

  7. #37

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    Re: Avatar Plans Leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostbuster626 View Post
    WTF where is the Tron Lightcycle like ride that was planned? That was supposed to be the major e-ticket and Cameron was very excited about it. It was going to use the same ride tech as the Tron ride going to Shanghai
    While this ride sounds awesome for Tron I never quite got it for Avatar...it was clearly another ride that was just re-purposed. Can't argue with a new boat ride dark ride however.

    Of course this "leaked" print really tells us very little creatively.

  8. #38

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    Re: Avatar Plans Leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    Ok, your position on Avatar as a theme park concept is noted - you don't have to keep repeating it and trying to derail this thread. Can we please discuss something about the project without this derail?
    lol meh i think its a worthwhile effort for something of such importance.

  9. #39

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    Re: Avatar Plans Leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by Truecoat View Post
    Don't be fooled by the soarin comparison. It sounds like there might be a ride vehicle that moves with the screen. Not for sure but possible according to screamscape. My guess is that it's more like the BTTF or Simpsons ride. Time will tell.
    I think it would be like Vekoma's "rip off" of Soarin'.
    Panoramic Flight Simulator

    This system has the individual vehicles loaded on multiple levels and the images show what looks like the possibility of a greater range of motion.

    Quote Originally Posted by biggsworth View Post
    LOL at judging Blueprints we have no idea what we are looking at
    You may not, but they're not a complete enigma. Plans are very much part of how projects get judged all of the time.

  10. #40

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    Re: Avatar Plans Leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    I think it would be like Vekoma's "rip off" of Soarin'.
    Panoramic Flight Simulator

    This system has the individual vehicles loaded on multiple levels and the images show what looks like the possibility of a greater range of motion.


    You may not, but they're not a complete enigma. Plans are very much part of how projects get judged all of the time.

    No I get it but most of the complaints about them stem from the content not the attraction design. We have no idea how it will turn out. I prefer to hope for the best not the worst and based off the new FL and cCarsland and BVS I have good faith in what will become of these attractions.

  11. #41

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    Re: Avatar Plans Leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    You may not, but they're not a complete enigma. Plans are very much part of how projects get judged all of the time.
    And neither do you, and this project would be judged in context of other things like concept art, 3D models, thorough explanations of the rides, experiences, etc. Why does every Disney theme park fan have to act completely pretentious? I've seen enough armchair engineers to last me a life time.

  12. #42

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    Re: Avatar Plans Leaked

    These plans could be what they were thinking of doing before the deal supposedly fell through. At least that was the last rumor I heard before this one got started.

  13. #43

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    Re: Avatar Plans Leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by Jungle Cruise View Post
    And neither do you, and this project would be judged in context of other things like concept art, 3D models, thorough explanations of the rides, experiences, etc. Why does every Disney theme park fan have to act completely pretentious? I've seen enough armchair engineers to last me a life time.
    the key word in there is he says its a part of how projects are judged. he's not making an entire judgement off the drawing, don't be so quick to persecute. relaying to the drawing specifically, which is what this discussion is about in the first place, i think its clear we are going to see a fairly stationary simulator of some kind. whether its in the very stationary style of soarin' or the limited mobility of the Simpsons or BTTF, it is a disappointment for many fans, especially those of us who were looking for something on the scale of Potter. the main purpose that many were arguing for the validity of putting Avatar in the parks was to actually be able to enter the world of Pandora, and its looking fairly certain from what we know thus far were not really going to get that. The boat ride however, if it turns out to be something like jungle cruise or an outdoor pirates i will be excited about an addition of that style. at the end of the day though as flynn so eloquently put it, my position is well known.

  14. #44

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    Re: Avatar Plans Leaked

    In all fairness if you look at the blue prints for most believed rides they would look super lame.
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    Re: Avatar Plans Leaked

    ^ It's not the blueprints that are causing the negative reaction to Avatar, it's the context in which they were leaked: decade after decade of Disney cheaping out on its heritage of innovation, and increasingly using its theme parks as marketing malls for brands, brands and more brands. Why should anyone expect them to do anything different with Avatar?


    Quote Originally Posted by goofy donald View Post
    lol its also a little more or less a bunch of blue aliens that have ponytail sex on a far off planet that is being invaded by highly advanced humans that have developed cyborg replicas to infiltrate their culture. yep that reallly fits in Disney's tribute to the planet earth, its flora and fauna, and their preservation. No matter how you attempt to justify it this doesn't belong in the park and again will be a detriment to the phenomenal theme they have developed there. dino land usa is far more thematically relevant then Avatar could ever be regardless of your likes or dislikes of what is actually there. they could have done just as great a job creating many far more relevant additions like say australia.
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