Avatar Plans Leaked

[brianpinsky]

What about the talks that the whole project is on hold?

[Kidgenie]

What about the talks that the whole project is on hold?

There is alot of talk about that, but it seems to be inconsistent or in conflict with the behavior of the company. Camp Minnie Mickey is being closed, including the uber popular and number one rated theme park show at WDW, Festival of the Lion King. Iger recently commented on the project and in doing so, confirmed it is still a go. Now "blue prints" and plans are out. Joe Rhode is making very frequent trips out to the DAK park.

I think what happend with Pandora, is not typical. Typically the company announces the project after they already know what they are going to build. This time, they announced an intent to create something, but they had no details to give yet. Then they went quietly into design phase and work out with James Cameron what exactly they should create. That time spent behind closed doors and in mostly silence to the outside world was construed by many as the project was delayed or cancelled. When the 2nd movie was delay this was immediately place on the WDW project as well. Pandora has proved to be very polarizing in the Disney Theme Park Community. There are many that hate the project and look for any sign that it is or may be delayed/cancelled. Again I think the silence should have been expected as they announced not the project, but rather the intent to create a project. Still many took it as a sign of hope that the project was experiencing difficulty. Then came the announced delay to the release of the 2nd movie. Surely this meant doom, or in the very least served as confirmation the project was experiencing difficulty getting off the ground. And it could mean that, but it could also be the case that a delay in the movie production would have or will have no effect on the timing of the project.

More recently that does seem to be the case as at least on the surface of things, Bob confirms its still a go, and things are being moved out of the way at DAK for it. So this is good news from some and bad for others. I for one an waiting to see what they announce before I judge it.

While Star Wars is not doubt much more of a classic then Avatar will every be, it has also benefited from the blessing of time. I do think that if the internet was around in the mid 80's when Disney annouced Star Tours, it too would have been a divisive topic leading to much heated debate as to why Disney was putting an outside presence inside DISNEYLAND of all places! Why not Epcot! Why not create something new like they had just done with the then smash hit Captain EO. Surely EO showed you did not need to bring in outside stories into WALT DISNEY'S Original Magic Kingdom. But more then 20 years later, Star Tours and now the entire Star Wars universe is, by most Disney Theme Park fans, warmly embraced. For now, I am willing to give Avatar more time and will wait until more information is released on the details of this project.

[Aladdin]

I wish they would add a Titanic attraction in front of the American Adventure at Epcot.

A "Howard the Duck" land would be better at Animal Kingdom, than Avatar!

I really don't expect Disney to pull a "Waterworld" out of Avatar.

Just to clarify Disney did not buy Avatar, Disney is just partnering with Cameron to use the Avatar property for theme park use. This is not the first time that they do that. Throughout many years of Disney history they have done that with other studios especially 20th century and MGM which is why they have been able to use several of their properties in Orlando and Anaheim.

Yes, I realize this, as we were only speaking about the Avatar plans for DAK. Which unfortunately makes the Iger deal even worse, than if it would have included other rights.

[goofy donald]

First of all, they haven't cancelled the third movie.

"I'm in the Avatar business," said Cameron back in May. "Period. That's it. I'm making Avatar 2, Avatar 3, maybe Avatar 4." However, it now seems he's settling for 2 and 3, with producer Jon Landau confirming the next two films will shoot back to back.

Then in Sept, he says this....

"I have an idea for a fourth," Cameron told MTV. "I haven't really put pen to paper on it, but basically it goes back to the early expeditions of Pandora, and kind of what went wrong with the humans and the Na'vi and what that was like to be an explorer and living in that world."

Now to address your comments. You state this....

"but the problem with the franchise right now is nothing popped out in the first film that made me think wow this is an amazing movie, I'm going to watch this over and over, it was more of a one and done thing. when that happens with your first movie you don't build a large enough fan base to sustain the series, Avatar is already doomed."

You have your opinion on the movie and then apply it to everyone else. I, among many others, don't feel the same. I enjoyed the movie and saw it several times. Do I expect everyone to feel this way? No. I'll never go into the American Idol show but I know why they built it. The same is true for Avatar. There were a lot of people that saw the movie multiple times and they will be the ones that go specifically to Animal Kingdom to experience the rides and environments. Most everyone else will go because it's new and probably a lot of fun.

Is Avatar as good a property as Star Wars? Not even close but it is a world recognized success and will bring some people to the parks that may have never thought about it.

there have been several reports in the past from different sources including in the past on this very site that the third installment has been temporarily cancelled with the ability to continue the series if the next film can produce at a predetermined level. of course Cameron is going to continue planning like its actually going on still, who wouldn't want to continue on with what they started and make it as successful as possible. I agree though with what your getting at, even if your a hollywood insider nobody really knows what the truth really is until it happens so I will concede there.

I was simplifying a small segment of the many many arguments I've used against this concept. yes of course there will be people that enjoyed the story, theres no such thing as a utopia where everyone thinks the same way, however does it 1) fill the needs of the majority and 2) have the staying power to be successful over the long term. i think that I've illustrated enough thus far to make a fair argument for both these points, particularily for the second one which without a doubt in my mind we shall see in the future of this creation.

finally, this is a bit of a stretch of an argument, ANYTHING that is added to the park of any major quantity will bring people to the parks simply because it receives marketing attention and is just plain new. the true success or failure in this hypothetical land will be with the years after its creation. in a combination between the quality of the attraction(s) and the staying power of the series we will see whether this was the right move. Again as I've said before i beg disney to make me set aside my principles and love this addition but i just don't see them doing it.

---------- Post added 11-02-2012 at 12:28 PM ----------

Spaceballs is a parody. It is not to be taken seriously. It's the Saturday Night Live version with Mel Brooks. He did a pretty bad job of it, but many people do like Spaceballs. I felt Mel Brooks did better work in the past. Star Wars most borrows from John Carter, which is a classic. Star Wars is a weak imitation, but it improved with The Empire Strikes Back.

Avatar had a much stronger storyline and it stands on its own. I'm sure Avatar will get better with the sequels. Cameron is a fine storyteller. His sequels are actually better than the original. Terminator 2 comes to mind.

i was just making an outrageous argument to get my point across, you obviously didn't realize the sarcasm lol. I would argue about how classic john carter is after that movie as well as argue how much star wars borrowed from it vs how much avatar borrowed from storylines like Pocahontas but i digress. I don't at all agree that Avatar has a more solid storyline then star wars and i would also argue it stands on its own using such a recycled story that goes back to folk tales in its basic usage. also its kind of a false statement to say his sequels are always better considering he's only done a sequel of his own film once (the terminator series) and the other two sequels he's done were Aliens and Pirhana part 2. so its very much a wait and see type scenario. sure he could save the series with the second film and make it a masterpiece but its highly unlikely in my opinion. as Ive stated before its nothing more then a novelty used to show off imax and 3D in local theaters at this point.

[KingEric]

What about the talks that the whole project is on hold?

It is all part of corporate politics.

[AmandasDad]

Ok. So the "ride" floor looks like 4 Soarin' theaters and the queue looks suspiciously like the one for Toy Story Mania as DHS. Not much new here.

And as for the whole "Disney is cheapening itself by having rides themes after movies" thing seem to forget that DL has had movie themed rides since its near close to its inception. Snow White and Mr. Toad anyone?

Speaking of Inception, how would a ride for that work? I'm having thoughts of the old Inner Space ride. Not sure why. Too much left over candy I guess.

[Bronco21]

Ok. So the "ride" floor looks like 4 Soarin' theaters and the queue looks suspiciously like the one for Toy Story Mania as DHS. Not much new here.

And as for the whole "Disney is cheapening itself by having rides themes after movies" thing seem to forget that DL has had movie themed rides since its near close to its inception. Snow White and Mr. Toad anyone?

Speaking of Inception, how would a ride for that work? I'm having thoughts of the old Inner Space ride. Not sure why. Too much left over candy I guess.

It would be a ride within a ride about a dream within a dream... Mind blown.

[Coastierox]

I'm confused. Why does anyone care about avatar?

[StevenW]

i was just making an outrageous argument to get my point across, you obviously didn't realize the sarcasm lol.

I didn't get the sarcasm because it wasn't taken as sarcasm. You point wasn't made clear.

I would argue about how classic john carter is after that movie as well as argue how much star wars borrowed from it vs how much avatar borrowed from storylines like Pocahontas but i digress. I don't at all agree that Avatar has a more solid storyline then star wars and i would also argue it stands on its own using such a recycled story that goes back to folk tales in its basic usage. also its kind of a false statement to say his sequels are always better considering he's only done a sequel of his own film once (the terminator series) and the other two sequels he's done were Aliens and Pirhana part 2. so its very much a wait and see type scenario. sure he could save the series with the second film and make it a masterpiece but its highly unlikely in my opinion. as Ive stated before its nothing more then a novelty used to show off imax and 3D in local theaters at this point.

So where does Spaceballs fit into your argument? Avatar is not a parody of Pocahontas. Star Wars is not a parody of John Carter.

He does sequels very well. Is it false that Aliens is better than Alien and Terminator 2 is better than Terminator? I certainly thought his sequels were stronger than the original even if he didn't originate Alien. I haven't seen Pirahna II, but it is his first movie, his directorial debut so I would not hold it against him. It isn't a false statement.

Whether or not you think Star Wars or Avatar is much more solid than the classic is irrelevant. They are certainly good stories to tell. That's why people are attached to those stories and many people enjoy seeing the movies over and over again. I felt the original Star Wars was weak. I will also say Avatar have that same weakness. This is caused by the limitations of film. The sequels allow the director to go back and revisit the story to strengthen them with character development. It has already occurred with "The Empire Strikes Back" for Star Wars. They will do the same for Avatar.

Specials effects are mainstream. Goodness. Will we argue about the innovation of Star Wars, which has given rise to LucasFilm Limited? Imax is no longer just a novelty. It has expanded. It is the present.

[goofy donald]

I didn't get the sarcasm because it wasn't taken as sarcasm. You point wasn't made clear.

So where does Spaceballs fit into your argument? Avatar is not a parody of Pocahontas. Star Wars is not a parody of John Carter.

He does sequels very well. Is it false that Aliens is better than Alien and Terminator 2 is better than Terminator? I certainly thought his sequels were stronger than the original even if he didn't originate Alien. I haven't seen Pirahna II, but it is his first movie, his directorial debut so I would not hold it against him. It isn't a false statement.

Whether or not you think Star Wars or Avatar is much more solid than the classic is irrelevant. They are certainly good stories to tell. That's why people are attached to those stories and many people enjoy seeing the movies over and over again. I felt the original Star Wars was weak. I will also say Avatar have that same weakness. This is caused by the limitations of film. The sequels allow the director to go back and revisit the story to strengthen them with character development. It has already occurred with "The Empire Strikes Back" for Star Wars. They will do the same for Avatar.

Specials effects are mainstream. Goodness. Will we argue about the innovation of Star Wars, which has given rise to LucasFilm Limited? Imax is no longer just a novelty. It has expanded. It is the present.

again an extreme and facetious argument as I said before lol i think I've made that rather clear, regardless of how much you want to try and hammer away at it.

the fact is you said all of his sequels are better then the original. first we don't have a lot to go off of considering he's only done 4 of them, 2 from the same franchise and the other 2 aren't even sequels of his own films. second not every one is better as pirhana 2 was pretty bad. you cant make a statement like that when its not true. sure theres a possibility it will be good but he hasn't done enough films or have a big enough track record to guarantee it.

the limitations of film? by that argument all movies would need a sequel to fix the original's issues and we would never have received some of the many classics we have today. also if episode 4 was such a "weak" film then why does it receive a higher review then Avatar on every single critiques site? sure everyone can have their opinion but i think i have the majority in mind from that point alone. the empire strikes back improved upon an already great all around film, Avatar's sequel has further to go then the star wars franchise ever did to bring it up to the quality necessary for "classic" level.

sure special effects are mainstream, nobody is arguing you there, but special effects are easily forgotten. what gives a film staying power is its story, the characters, the connection. thats what Avatar is missing and is the whole argument. Star wars had a lot of innovation in special effects AND the characteristics necessary to be held as a classic film series in peoples minds, it drastically affected pop culture forever something Avatar also did not do. Imax and 3D in local theaters is no longer a novelty BECAUSE of Avatar, in 09 when it came about it most definitely was and this film changed that. Avatar in my opinion still can be considered a novelty because it served to showcase these new technologies with its graphics and visuals.

[Chesire]

again an extreme and facetious argument as I said before lol i think I've made that rather clear, regardless of how much you want to try and hammer away at it.

the fact is you said all of his sequels are better then the original. first we don't have a lot to go off of considering he's only done 4 of them, 2 from the same franchise and the other 2 aren't even sequels of his own films. second not every one is better as pirhana 2 was pretty bad. you cant make a statement like that when its not true. sure theres a possibility it will be good but he hasn't done enough films or have a big enough track record to guarantee it.

the limitations of film? by that argument all movies would need a sequel to fix the original's issues and we would never have received some of the many classics we have today. also if episode 4 was such a "weak" film then why does it receive a higher review then Avatar on every single critiques site? sure everyone can have their opinion but i think i have the majority in mind from that point alone. the empire strikes back improved upon an already great all around film, Avatar's sequel has further to go then the star wars franchise ever did to bring it up to the quality necessary for "classic" level.

sure special effects are mainstream, nobody is arguing you there, but special effects are easily forgotten. what gives a film staying power is its story, the characters, the connection. thats what Avatar is missing and is the whole argument. Star wars had a lot of innovation in special effects AND the characteristics necessary to be held as a classic film series in peoples minds, it drastically affected pop culture forever something Avatar also did not do. Imax and 3D in local theaters is no longer a novelty BECAUSE of Avatar, in 09 when it came about it most definitely was and this film changed that. Avatar in my opinion still can be considered a novelty because it served to showcase these new technologies with its graphics and visuals.

We get that you hate Avatar, now can we please get back to talking about the plans?

[goofy donald]

We get that you hate Avatar, now can we please get back to talking about the plans?

So I'm not allowed to defend my statements? another individual disagreed with what I said and we proceeded to evolve the discussion in a different direction. why not post these sentiments to others who also continued the thread in this direction. look you have every right to continue the discussion back more towards the original basis of the thread or heck start a whole new thread if you like however the conversation has evolved so with all do respect contribute but don't come at others who's views you don't agree with or aren't doing things the way you want them to be done. last time i checked this was a free and open discussion board.

[flynnibus]

last time i checked this was a free and open discussion board.

and it's also a STRUCTURED one...

[mratigan]

i dont thinks its sorin'......
WDW - Animal Kingdom
look at the pictures

[Pizzapants]

i dont thinks its sorin'......
WDW - Animal Kingdom
look at the pictures

Whoaa... that looks interesting. Crap, I just went from "hating this whole idea" to "withholding judgment."

Still wish it wasn't a simulator though. I wanted to actually STAND IN Pandora. But still...those pictures... I kinda wish someone could prove them to be a false fan fabrication so I can go back to being bitter.