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  1. #31

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    Re: Walt Disney World Attendance Down for 2012

    I've got to say, I'm a bit surprised to hear this news. Everyone I've heard from who has been at WDW in the past year has said it's been more crowded than they remember from previous years. I wonder if they've gotten that impression because of traffic issues, or if they're mostly just visiting the more popular areas within the resort and thinking it must be like that all over.

  2. #32

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    Re: Walt Disney World Attendance Down for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by ttintagel View Post
    I've got to say, I'm a bit surprised to hear this news. Everyone I've heard from who has been at WDW in the past year has said it's been more crowded than they remember from previous years. I wonder if they've gotten that impression because of traffic issues, or if they're mostly just visiting the more popular areas within the resort and thinking it must be like that all over.
    I think it may possibly have to do with a combination of the slightly continuous increase of ride shutdown/breakdowns (less places for people to go), the general public getting better at navigating the resort (more people turning into the Disney death march types trying to get everything done and make their vacation "worth it" in tough economy), and Disney's inexplicable inability to deal with bottle neck areas (it may have gone down slightly this year but its been increasing quite a bit over the last few years as well, areas like old fantasyland between Peter Pan and small world, and Africa at DAK need to have either more diversions from their area out to new lands or paths to get people moved out or get more attractions on the other side of the park to draw people away from the bottleneck zones).

  3. #33

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    Re: Walt Disney World Attendance Down for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Coheteboy View Post
    As for the article, it makes sense. I think the buzz about Cars Land paired with how social media is now has turned the entire world towards the original Disneyland and what they have to offer.

    I've been telling folks for years that if you want the most Disney Imagineered ATTRACTIONS for your buck, you'll find it in CA.

    WDW has a lot of great things to look at but repeat visits aren't as appealing when you have to park hop all over the place to maximize your day.


    I think they definitely need to make each park a destination filled with as many things as Magic Kingdom. This is something they have never even addressed after opening each new park.
    I feel the same way. Disneyland has the best of what's in Florida and more. Park hopping is just crossing the esplanade. My first visit to Disney World was in 2000 and really liked it but my visit to Disneyland in 2006 was the one that really got me hooked. I've been to Disney World twice since then as a chaperone for marching band trips but can't wait for my second visit to Disneyland this Christmas.

  4. #34

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    Re: Walt Disney World Attendance Down for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    I think just the opposite actually.. when they have to make statements saying all their increases in revenue were offset by higher operating costs... there is pressure to shy away from increasing operating costs.

    WDW already has several buns in the oven... I think we'll see a return of higher discounting and more marketing to try to boost things.
    Where does it say that? From the article,

    "Disney's parks-and-resorts unit led the way among the company's divisions in terms of percentage gains for both quarterly and annual profit and revenue. Its fourth-quarter operating profit totaled $497 million, an 18 percent increase from a year ago, on a 9 percent increase in revenue to $3.4 billion. For the year, operating profit jumped 22 percent to $1.9 billion, as revenue rose 10 percent to $12.9 billion."

    Profits went up 18%, on a 9% revenue increase. So, proportionally, they are getting more profits than revenue and expected upkeep would suggest. If upkeep increased proportionally with revenue, you'd see 9% profit increase with 9% revenue, overall for all the parks.

    Of course, we all all know where the expanded profit margin over revenue comes from . . . higher priced tickets.

  5. #35

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    Re: Walt Disney World Attendance Down for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael808702 View Post
    Walt Disney World may not be my favorite resort but last time I was in the resort was 2007 since then I have not seen anything amazing to bring us back their unlike Disneyland Resort where they add something new every few years, I'm not trying to be biased but WDW got a new restaurant cool but not booking a trip right away, they also got The Little Mermaid ride, great but ridden it like 3 times already in DCA not booking a trip for that. Then theirs things like Test Track 2.0 ohh could be cool but not worth a whole trip. Plus they have the same parades and shows from the last time i was their in 2007. I see no need to book a trip back they need something super amazing to bring in crowds at least get new parades and shows then add at least 1-2 rides in each park. at this rate how long will we see the collapse of WDW, how has the management not seen something is wrong with their managing style. I know these number were before some of the new fantasy land opened but still. This is IMO and hopefully I didn't mean to miss with anyone's opinions.
    Something to mention, prior to the opening of Disneyland Paris, "AKA Euro Disney," WDW was a great international tourist destination which became somewhat watered down by the newly exported Magic Kingdom at that time. Additionally the brand in Florida has been watered down by the addition of Animal Kingdom and DHS pulling $$ away from EPCOT and MK. SoCal has a huge population base that sustains Disneyland. Florida's tourism has been hit pretty hard by the economic woes and as all have mentioned so far ticket price increases, slipping quality and current economy all play a role.

  6. #36

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    Re: Walt Disney World Attendance Down for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    Where does it say that?
    From the lips of Jay Rasulo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Rasulo
    Results at our domestic parks were comparable to prior year, as growth at the Disneyland
    Resort was largely offset by higher costs at Walt Disney World as a result of our growth
    initiatives. We are encouraged by Disneyland Resortís overall performance in the quarter and
    are particularly pleased with its attendance and per capita spending results, following the
    opening of Cars Land in June. Overall, domestic attendance was up 3% driven by strong
    attendance at the Disneyland Resort. Per capita spending at our domestic parks was up 7% on higher ticket prices and food and beverage spending
    http://cdn.media.ir.thewaltdisneycom...transcript.pdf

    As you can see.. the gains in DL were largely offset by higher spending.

    The numbers you quoted were fir the entire P&R division.. which includes DCL, international parks, DVC, and others.
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  7. #37

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    Re: Walt Disney World Attendance Down for 2012

    Darth Goofy there are a lot more people continually visiting DL and DCA than just SoCal residents. We hear more and more about people coming from Canada, the Pacific Northwest and even the East Coast. Some say they come three or more times a year. The resort has become too busy at times. We are from Norcal and it has become too crowded even in the off season.

    I have to say in WDW's defense that it is an awesome group of parks and I have made many trips there and enjoy every minute. I agree with others that price increases have hit everyone and many have just decided to do other things since they can't afford it. The only reason I renewed to a Premier pass was so I would be able to save some money while doing two 1/2 marathons in January one on each coast.

  8. #38

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    Re: Walt Disney World Attendance Down for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    From the lips of Jay Rasulo.


    http://cdn.media.ir.thewaltdisneycom...transcript.pdf

    As you can see.. the gains in DL were largely offset by higher spending.

    The numbers you quoted were fir the entire P&R division.. which includes DCL, international parks, DVC, and others.
    Wrong, Rasulo was talking about the costs due to the "growth initiative", i.e. FLE/Next Gen type stuff, not operating costs as you said,

    As per Rasulo,

    "Results at our domestic parks were comparable to prior year, as growth at the Disneyland
    Resort was largely offset by higher costs at Walt Disney World as a result of our growth
    initiatives."

    You said that "operating" costs offset the profits. Not true at all if you read my post.

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    I think just the opposite actually.. when they have to make statements saying all their increases in revenue were offset by higher operating costs... there is pressure to shy away from increasing operating costs.
    If somebody corrects you, in the future you should try to figure out why you might very well be wrong, instead of assuming you are correct. There is a big difference between operating costs and costs of new growth initiatives.
    Last edited by chesirecat; 11-14-2012 at 11:07 AM.

  9. #39

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    Re: Walt Disney World Attendance Down for 2012

    I think the lower attendance at WDW is due to a number of things:

    - The economy is still tanking. This has been dragging on for four years now and many people can't or simply won't spend the money for a WDW vacation.

    - By offering discounts over the past few years, Disney has created the expectation of never ending discounts. Most people I know are aware I'm a Disney head. The first question they always ask is, "Where can I get discount Disney tickets?". Nobody wants to pay full retail for anything these days. If they can't get a discount, they're not going to buy. And for many people, this includes a Disney vacation.

    - I also think there are some changes going on with families. Not as many kids are interested in Disney parks or characters. More and more kids are interested in Harry Potter (of course) or other fantasy genres. I recall when Disney first announced the new WDW Fantasyland several years ago, the big question was, "So, what is there for boys?". Disney made some changes. But I think they were aware the big interest in Disney is with little girls who love the whole princess thing. A lot of the boys would rather go to Universal Studios to ride coasters or to Sea World to see sharks. (You know, more macho stuff!)

    Disney doesn't make decisions in a vacuum. But they do get pretty disconnected sometimes. DCA is a perfect example of this. They just couldn't figure out why attendance at DCA continued to lag after all their half-hearted attempts at fixing that park. Then Lasseter came in and convinced them to spend big and Cars Land is a huge hit. And, interestingly, with what key demographic is Cars Land a big hit? Why, boys of course!

    Thus, while us Disney fans might not like cloned attractions, the best bet for WDW to increase attendance is to put in a killer Cars Land. I just hope they don't try to go the cheap, knockoff route. If they do, families will stay home in droves.

  10. #40

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    Re: Walt Disney World Attendance Down for 2012

    If I could hazard a guess, it seems as though the slight declines in attendance are simply related to the New Fantasyland and (to a lesser extent) Tron Track construction. In the past we have seen that when there are expansion projects at these destination theme parks, attendance declines because people don't want to visit until the expansion is complete. We saw the same thing with DCA and with IOA. I am sure I am not the only WDW fan who has decided to postpone another WDW trip until 2014 when the Seven Dwarves coaster is complete.

    One other note, for those folks who think WDW is simply too expensive, USO is not a good alternative. It used to be a great deal (an amazing two day add-on to my seven day Disney visit)... but now it is just as outrageously priced as WDW. =( You're better off visiting your local theme park if you just want to save some dough.
    "We're in the business of telling great stories, and great stories never grow old. In the end, a roller coaster is just a roller coaster." -- Marty Sklar.

  11. #41

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    Re: Walt Disney World Attendance Down for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    Wrong, Rasulo was talking about the costs due to the "growth initiative", i.e. FLE, not operating costs as you said
    I am well aware of the different in capital expenditures vs ongoing operating costs.

    It was a slipup when I introduced 'operating' in there... probably just typing faster than I was thinking. As I said in my recent post to you, I said 'higher spending' and that's what I meant in the context of the discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    If somebody corrects you, in the future you should try to figure out why you might very well be wrong, instead of assuming you are correct
    Here's a tip for you... if you want to 'correct' me. Just try saying so. But if you present me with a QUESTION such as "'Where does it say that" - don't get all snooty if I simply answer the question presented.

    You still presented numbers about the entire division.. when I was talking about parks specifically.

    The original intent of my post is the same. Their spending is hurting (even significantly) any gains they are getting now. This is not new either.. Q3 had similar comments about increased costs, as well as in Q2 as well. This is trend that the CFO is only vaguely addressing. And when we see the comments increase in size of impact in Q4 without any clear guidance on what the return on these investments or when they will stop eating into revenues.. that is a point of concern. Not a green light to keep increasing spending as what the original post was about.. to which MY post was in reply too.

    But thanks for playing post police for me, I appreciate you catching my typo and missing the rest of the context from there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
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  12. #42

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    Re: Walt Disney World Attendance Down for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by ttintagel View Post
    I've got to say, I'm a bit surprised to hear this news. Everyone I've heard from who has been at WDW in the past year has said it's been more crowded than they remember from previous years. I wonder if they've gotten that impression because of traffic issues, or if they're mostly just visiting the more popular areas within the resort and thinking it must be like that all over.
    I think that it is possible that overall attendance is down but the parks can feel busier. I think what Disney has succeeded at over the years is distributing the crowds around. To the point there is barely an offseason. Times that used to be dead are now much busier. This creates the feel that the crowd levels have increased when in fact, it's just that due to special offers and whatnot, the crowds are just spread out more over different times of the year that used to be slow times.

  13. #43

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    Re: Walt Disney World Attendance Down for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by ttintagel View Post
    I've got to say, I'm a bit surprised to hear this news. Everyone I've heard from who has been at WDW in the past year has said it's been more crowded than they remember from previous years. I wonder if they've gotten that impression because of traffic issues, or if they're mostly just visiting the more popular areas within the resort and thinking it must be like that all over.
    Reduced capacity in places...
    Discounting boosting attendance in periods that used to quieter...

    What it means is the discounting, at best, is simply SHIFTING attendance and sustaining it, not growing it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
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  14. #44

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    Re: Walt Disney World Attendance Down for 2012

    Well maybe this will be good for our trip December 10th! Less crowds makes me happy. I will say that I do wish that they would add an attraction to DHS and Animal Kingdom. Those parks really need something new to draw people. I think Disney did go in the right direction with the Disney Animation Resort because I think it will help people with more budget constraints to visit the park.
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  15. #45

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    Re: Walt Disney World Attendance Down for 2012

    We used to be annual WDW park visitors since 2003 but stopped going with our last trip in 2009 and went to DL instead 3 times that year.....for less money than our one annual WDW trip. It was simple for us, more value and a better experience. BUT with the price increases we even cut out the DL trips and SAVED money on a family vacation to Hawaii! I never though that trip would be half the cost of a DL or WDW trip. It's just gotten so expensive for a family of 6 to make that trip and since we have all boys there is no real draw to bring us back to WDW. I'm hoping there will be a trip in 2014 when the Seven dwarves mine ride is open, but make no mistake; Harry Potter and Transformers are why my boys want to come back and WDW has become secondary.

    what they need is to capitalize on the new Lucas purchase and get some new unique rides in place. I don't feel like they have to create new lands like avatar land (that's not to say it won't be a hit with my kids) but I'd like to see an E-ticket or 2 added to each park that isn't a rehash of what's successful in DL. They made big purchases with buying Marvel and Lucas and they can surely come up with some amazing rides to brings they boys attention back to WDW and make the trip worth thee money. BUT here is the important part, they need to start NOW! We've seen how fast Universal can put these things together and they are approaching Disney standards; it does no good to start in 2015 and open in 2020 when your competition has built and operated before you even began. I hope they realize the completion has caught up and they can't keep operating the way they used to.

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