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  1. #16

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    Re: Another wester river rumor?

    Quote Originally Posted by goofy donald View Post
    four big problems with this:

    1) you would have to shorten or shift the frontier land station over a bit to prevent the worst bottleneck in disney history

    IF they did that

    2) you have to find a way to get people either over or under the train tracks

    IF they did that

    3) they would have to build a BIG drawbridge to get people over the RoA behind the train bridge

    IF they did that

    4) they would have to find a way to hide the boat locks at the river boat repair station thats just a bit up the river

    and after all of that you have something thats out of the way and will surely become a congested walk way with only one way in and one way out unless they added more tom sawyer rafts or boats of some kind on the north shore, getting people in and out. plus you still have to hide or move all the back stage stuff and tie the train in that would be running right beside the walk way almost.
    overall if they did that I think the effect would be pretty awesome...

    That's a big project though, and I'm not sure if they're willing to undertake that big of a project just to do a one shot expansion, even though it would add some much needed capacity to the park.
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  2. #17

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    Re: Another wester river rumor?

    I will believe it when I see it.
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  3. #18

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    Re: Another wester river rumor?

    Quote Originally Posted by JCSkipr79 View Post
    Notice how all these rumors start EVERY TIME Universal announces something or accelerates it's construction projects?
    i know how to stop it
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  4. #19

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    Re: Another wester river rumor?

    It is too bad that the Fantasyland expansion did not extend all the way to the train tracks. That could have made for a great path to the once again rumored Western River Run. Of course the dilemma of one way in and out would need to be solved. Possibly a path on the other side of Thunder Mountain along the train track to a crossing bridge. There is alot of real estate up to Floridian Way for a huge expansion pad, however like the Curmudgeon stated above me, I will believe it when I see it.


  5. #20

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    Re: Another wester river rumor?

    Quote Originally Posted by ORD84 View Post
    overall if they did that I think the effect would be pretty awesome...

    That's a big project though, and I'm not sure if they're willing to undertake that big of a project just to do a one shot expansion, even though it would add some much needed capacity to the park.
    oh agreed it would be AWESOME if they did that, however if they went through all that trouble it wouldn't be for one ride, only a new land would make that effort worthwhile and even then theres still traffic issues.

  6. #21

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    Re: Another wester river rumor?

    Aside from the WRE rumors, turning the River Belle riverboat into a restaurant just doesn't make any sense. Think about the room on that boat, even with 3 decks. There's just no room for a kitchen, and very little deck room for tables. Fulton's is MUCH larger than the Liberty Belle. It simply wouldn't make any sense to turn the LB into a restaurant.

    Maybe a riverside museum???

  7. #22

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    Re: Another wester river rumor?

    Hello, I'm disneytom and very much a "doubting Thomas" when it comes to this WRE rumor; but here are a few things I'd like folks to consider about it:

    1.) While the Magic Kingdom did indeed just debut a "new Fantasyland" the reality is that this land holds very little repeat visitor appeal for Magic Kingdom guests. This is not a "Potter Swatter" by anyone's stretch of the imagination.

    The Little Mermaid ride is a FastPass attraction and the stand-by line the day after Thanksgiving was 90 minutes long (I couldn't believe it took that long but it did - it was at "least" 90 minutes - the longest Disney line I've ever waited in my entire life and this is a 7 minute omni-mover attraction no less). While the ride is popular, here's the problem, after you ride it once I doubt many will insist on riding it again even if you only have a 45 minute stand-by wait time. This is a "D" attraction, at best, and located so far off the beaten path that you wouldn't know it was there unless you were looking for it. Nor is it so outstanding that you "must" make the trek to get there (if you only had another half hour to spend in the park just prior to closing) - - but I bet you would make the trek to take in Haunted Mansion, Pirates or the "moutains" because they are repeatable, stellar experiences that are fun to do multiple times during the same day. There is just not going to be a lot of "must ride" buzz for this attraction for the long haul. And, let's face it, a Little Mermaid ride now is lame - it's essentially 19 years too late - what next, a Mary Poppins umbrella ride (which might be cool in retrospect). It's 2012, couldn't this money have been spent for a Villains ride or something more timeless?

    The Be Our Guest restaurant was OK (food was also just "OK" and I'm being generous here). But, get this, if you don't have a reservation you're going to simply ignore the place because Disney cast members are not letting you even take a peak inside without a reservation or first waiting in line to order (during lunch). The F&B department is happy as they have a cash cow on their hands but only a limited number of "in the know" people will understand what the place is and since it's a large part of the expansion - it's a bit of a disservice to guests that can't get a reservation.

    The Tales with Belle and the dual Dumbos, well, these are good for little ones but not much appeal for repeat visiting adults and certainly not a motivator to purchase an annual pass. And while the Seven Dwarfs coaster will be fun it's only about a 2.5 minute ride at best - once you ride you'll probably not feel compelled to ride again and again if the wait is terribly unreasonable - it's probably not that much different than Goofy's kids coaster in footprint anyway.

    While I'm glad they did something with the area I feel that they still needed to do more. There should have been another E ticket added to accompany this addition then it might have been a "Potter Swatter" - a Villains ride concept would have been awesome - Alice ride, anything really.

    Soon Disney will realize that their next big addition to the Magic Kingdom needs to appeal to nostalgic loyalists and the attraction must include AA figures (on a grand scale), thrill elements and an encompassing footprint - I wouldn't be surprised if the new POTC technology for Shanghai gets duplicated for Magic Kingdom and WRE uses this technology.

    2.) In Al Lutz's article yesterday it appears that the Oriental Land Company is receptive to filling in their Rivers of America and converting that into Cars Land. While Walt would probably freak out at this concept since he loved the kinetics of the river and it's transportation options, I wouldn't be surprised if Disney is thinking about this for the Magic Kingdom. They figure that they could save enough of the river for visual appeal but then gut the lessor seen back half and use that for a stellar expansion. Not only does that side of the park lend itself to development it also frees up crowd flow by moving people into the deeper reaches of the park and expands capacity without necessarily making people feel claustrophobic. They add another train station stop and - there you go!

    3.) Speaking of the need for a "Potter Swatter", I still can't believe that an Avatar land will be built in my least favorite Disney Park, Animal Kingdom. Disney will probably throw some $250 million into this debacle and at the end of the day have very little to show for it.

    While Animal Kingdom attendance will increase for a few years it won't boost it high enough to surpass Epcot or DCA. The Avatar incorporation will still not be a "Potter Swatter" because the park closes early and just has a more laid back vibe that doesn't lend itself to incredible amounts of fun.

    4.) WDW is a victim of its own success - they are now too big to give Wall Street analysts the results they really want to see with incremental attendance numbers. WDW is the the size of a powerlifter - it's big and menacing and certainly a multi-day affair to visit - but that doesn't make it "chic" - when's the last time you saw a chic powerlifter?

    Cars Land is perceived to be cool and everyone is talking about wanting to see it. WDW is perceived to be a right of passage and something everyone "should" see or eventually will see. But in Cars Land what we're finding is that people are specifically going to Cars Land which happens to be at DCA - Cars Land has become a brand - something I don't think anyone really realized would happen. WDW needs multiple Cars Lands style brands of it's own - e.g. WRE located at WDW.

    Universal is being visited in droves by people from all over the world because they have a brand - the Wizarding World of Harry Potter which happens to be at IOA. People are coming here because it's an experience that is current and relevant and enduring. If she decides to write more books, and she will, the place will just continue to grow and reinvent itself.

    WDW needs to kick it up and play fast and hard with Star Wars, TRON, etc. and add existing attractions to their parks. I even think an entire Star Wars Park would get diluted at WDW and cannibalize attendance for the other parks. Either modify Tomorrowland or add Star Wars land to Hollywood Studios - then we might just have a "Potter Swatter" on our hands.


    Sorry to be so long-winded. What do you think?
    Last edited by disneytom; 11-28-2012 at 10:09 AM.

  8. #23

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    Re: Another wester river rumor?

    I did watch Disney fill in a water way once already... Just sayin'.
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  9. #24

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    Re: Another wester river rumor?

    I’d hate to say it… But after hearing about the CarsLand plans for Tokyo, the idea of eliminating the Rivers of America doesn't seem so far-fetched.

    I agree that the kinetics of a vibrant river are an important part of Frontierland (as they are in the Tomorrowland Lagoon at DLP, but that’s another discussion). However the keelboats and Canoes are long gone from the Florida park, leaving only the River Boat and TSI rafts. Extremely limited guest capacity for the amount of real-estate occupied.

    In addition to the limited guest capacity, the ROA also creates bottle necks, choke points, and dead ends that inhibit efficient guest flow from area to area. The original Disney “hub and spoke” design was implemented so that there would never be a dead end. Unfortunately there is a dead end at Splash/Thunder, and they need a better way to move the hordes of humanity in and out of that area. The train is not simply not cutting it.

    Could they create an area similar to the DLP Tomorrowland Lagoon and/or the DCA Grizzly Gulch where you have mountain(s), waterfalls, river/stream/lagoon, forest, and pathways? Something that contributed to the Frontier scenery, allowed for better guest flow, and included one or more high capacity attractions? I think the most difficult part would be adding additional mountain ranges in Frontierland that blended in with Splash and Thunder (which are already somewhat out of place with each other). And how do you do this while maintaining the transition between Liberty Square and Frontierland?
    Last edited by PecosBill; 11-28-2012 at 10:50 AM.

  10. #25

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    Re: Another wester river rumor?

    Quote Originally Posted by danyoung View Post
    Aside from the WRE rumors, turning the River Belle riverboat into a restaurant just doesn't make any sense. Think about the room on that boat, even with 3 decks. There's just no room for a kitchen, and very little deck room for tables. Fulton's is MUCH larger than the Liberty Belle. It simply wouldn't make any sense to turn the LB into a restaurant.

    Maybe a riverside museum???
    Or relocate it to Bay Lake / 7 Seas Lagoon, as a replacement for the long lost Osceola/Seminole-Class Steamships that once sailed those waterways. While there is no room for a kitchen, the vessel could be used for catered events.

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  11. #26

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    Re: Another wester river rumor?

    i think if they fill in part of the river and moved the boat i'm fine with it
    if its better than before im good
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  12. #27

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    Re: Another wester river rumor?

    Quote Originally Posted by PecosBill View Post
    I’d hate to say it… But after hearing about the CarsLand plans for Tokyo, the idea of eliminating the Rivers of America doesn't seem so far-fetched.



    I agree that the kinetics of a vibrant river are an important part of Frontierland (as they are in the Tomorrowland Lagoon at DLP, but that’s another discussion). However the keelboats and Canoes are long gone from the Florida park, leaving only the River Boat and TSI rafts. Extremely limited guest capacity for the amount of real-estate occupied.

    In addition to the limited guest capacity, the ROA also creates bottle necks, choke points, and dead ends that inhibit efficient guest flow from area to area. The original Disney “hub and spoke” design was implemented so that there would never be a dead end. Unfortunately there is a dead end at Splash/Thunder, and they need a better way to move the hordes of humanity in and out of that area. The train is not simply not cutting it.

    Could they create an area similar to the DLP Tomorrowland Lagoon and/or the DCA Grizzly Gulch where you have mountain(s), waterfalls, river/stream/lagoon, forest, and pathways? Something that contributed to the Frontier scenery, allowed for better guest flow, and included one or more high capacity attractions? I think the most difficult part would be adding additional mountain ranges in Frontierland that blended in with Splash and Thunder (which are already somewhat out of place with each other). And how do you do this while maintaining the transition between Liberty Square and Frontierland?
    the contribution though, as you stated, is so much more then just riders per hour, it really makes the places FEEL like old America. the difficulty would be creating something that kept that authenticity and thematic contribution to the place. the main problem I see with building a mountain range that complements frontier land's two main attractions is that they are two totally different areas, on the one hand you have the virginia Appalachian mountains and the other, the rocky outcroppings of the south west so to build something that complements both would be very hard. you also have to think about liberty square which i think will be hurt the most out of the two lands by loosing the RoA, what would you do for them thematically as i think the water with the riverboat going by is the best way to set the scene for that place.

  13. #28

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    Re: Another wester river rumor?

    While I wouldn't like to see cars land in frontierland I'd be happy to loose part of ROA if we get something extraordinary. There is a massive expansion pad behind big thunder which could be used for WRE or something new. You could link by bridges across the river and/or replace Tom Sawyers Island rafts as well (similar to the pirate island at DLP).

    Personally I'd love to see WRE or maybe something like the old discovery bay idea crossed with mysterious island at TDS

  14. #29

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    Re: Another wester river rumor?

    Quote Originally Posted by goofy donald View Post
    the contribution though, as you stated, is so much more then just riders per hour, it really makes the places FEEL like old America. the difficulty would be creating something that kept that authenticity and thematic contribution to the place. the main problem I see with building a mountain range that complements frontier land's two main attractions is that they are two totally different areas, on the one hand you have the virginia Appalachian mountains and the other, the rocky outcroppings of the south west so to build something that complements both would be very hard. you also have to think about liberty square which i think will be hurt the most out of the two lands by loosing the RoA, what would you do for them thematically as i think the water with the riverboat going by is the best way to set the scene for that place.

    Wouldn't it be awesome if they rerouted the riverboat and made it go through a massive show building - now that would be cool.

    I do agree that WRE looses something by already having to compete with BTMRR and Spalsh Mountain's existing peaks. I suspect it would not be the exact concept that Marc Davis had in mind (in which the mountains and boat ride were one). Although, it's possible that they could incorporate it into BTMRR - anything can be imagineered!

  15. #30

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    Re: Another wester river rumor?

    I think the only way to really get it to work would to have it go the Indiana Jones Adventures route by having a long elaborately themed queue leading to an expansive show building. In theory the queue could even be themed to rainbow caverns or something similar leading to a "subterranean" loading dock in the cave that then follows the stream out into the rest of the ride.
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