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  1. #46

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    Re: Carsland at DHS -rumor of announcement this week

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronco21 View Post
    Did you see the New Fantasyland before corporate stepped in? Instead of Dwarves mine train they were putting in another freaking meet and greet... Not to mention the "e-ticket restaurant", great build up that TLM queue creates for a lacking ride, nothing of any interest in Storybook circus, ugly railing around the "Casey Junior reclaimed sewer water happy fun place", ect... Test track does not count since it was payed for by Cheverolet. I give all the credit for that one to WDI. I have seen nothing that TDO has payed for that screamed change. I personally feel that new fantasyland is just like Animal Kingdom. Gorgeous to look at, but not a whole lot to do. Rides are expensive and do not directly increase profit. E-ticket restaurants and photo pass meet and greets do. Nothing has changed at TDO.
    I agree that nothing seems to have changed (to enough of an extent, at least) at TDO. What I think, however, we are seeing is that Burbank is slowly starting to step in and realize that TDO is just not cutting the mustard.


    As for New Fantasyland? The New Fantasyland is beautiful....and once the Seven Dwarves opens up, it will have everything one could expect from an expansion of an existing land. As you said, the original plans where horrid.....but they were changed (and I’m pretty sure it was not TDO that motivated that change). There seems to be a lot of misplaced disappointment in New Fantasyland. If you were expecting a full blown response to Wizzarding World, or a CarsLand type addition....well then, you will be disappointed. These where both brand new lands. They were both huge budget projects meant to re-launch parks that had either failed (DCA) or grossly under-performed (IOA) since their conception. That, however, was not what New fantasyland was. It was the expansion of an existing land. In this expansion we got 2 new rides, increased capacity of another, a small water play area, a beautifully themed area.....and yes a meet and greet (that is frankly better described as a show). Added to this was a restaurant that is stunning. If DL had gotten that much in a new expansion, of say, Adventureland....we would all be ecstatic. But we were all looking for MK to respond to potter; we are all comparing New Fantasyland to Carsland. So yeah, it's unfairly coming up short. Will WDW get the huge project that is so desperately needs? lordy, I hope so. We see that certainly SOEMTHING big is coming (although that may be another fight altogether). Until then, however, i think the new fantasyland, if we let it, gives us a glimpse of light. A hope that things might be getting better.

  2. #47

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    Re: Carsland at DHS -rumor of announcement this week

    I have this feeling too. I think some major housekeeping is coming over the next few years; just slow enough that it doesn't look obvious that they are trying to fix a big mess.

    New Fantasyland and Test Track 2 while not perfect are clear steps in the right direction and certainly a good deal better than things like Chester & Hester, The Seas with Nemo & Friends, or everything that's been done to Tomorrowland over the past decade. Developmentally things are looking up. Now if they can just get their maintenance and transportation issues under wraps, I might be able to stop looking like a big complaining complainer.
    It bothers me when people selectively edit quotes to support whatever point they are trying to prove.

  3. #48

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    Re: Carsland at DHS -rumor of announcement this week

    Quote Originally Posted by Dapper Dan View Post
    I have this feeling too. I think some major housekeeping is coming over the next few years; just slow enough that it doesn't look obvious that they are trying to fix a big mess.

    New Fantasyland and Test Track 2 while not perfect are clear steps in the right direction and certainly a good deal better than things like Chester & Hester, The Seas with Nemo & Friends, or everything that's been done to Tomorrowland over the past decade. Developmentally things are looking up. Now if they can just get their maintenance and transportation issues under wraps, I might be able to stop looking like a big complaining complainer.
    New Fantasyland replaced an attraction that closed in 1994 and was replaced with a park in 2005, to finally be built on in 2010, with an opening in late 2012.

    Test Track is a ride that opened 2 years late, never performed at it's peak operational levels since it opened in 1998.

    There are still too many outdated and abandoned pieces of property at WDW to say that this is a real clean up effort.
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  4. #49

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    Re: Carsland at DHS -rumor of announcement this week

    What gets me is there are 4 theme parks in Disney World, by one theme park getting attention, that shouldn't factor in how much attention another gets. The average guest visits disneyworld once every 5- 6 years. So my thought is there should be a new E and maybe B/C ticket at every one of the 4 parks during that time.

    As a side note, once Universal has everything open, I may have to cut some disney time, which will most likely mean I don't go to DHS and AK. But I know for a fact I will not pay for park hopping, which means those parks (AK & DHS) are not worth the money compared to the other Orlando parks.

    Quote Originally Posted by KingEric View Post
    New Fantasyland replaced an attraction that closed in 1994 and was replaced with a park in 2005, to finally be built on in 2010, with an opening in late 2012.

    Test Track is a ride that opened 2 years late, never performed at it's peak operational levels since it opened in 1998.

    There are still too many outdated and abandoned pieces of property at WDW to say that this is a real clean up effort.
    Last edited by NJDevil; 12-13-2012 at 04:09 PM.

  5. #50

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    Re: Carsland at DHS -rumor of announcement this week

    Quote Originally Posted by KingEric View Post
    New Fantasyland replaced an attraction that closed in 1994 and was replaced with a park in 2005, to finally be built on in 2010, with an opening in late 2012.
    while the subs will always be missed, they have been gone for almost 20 years. we cannot really count that. What happen just recently was that a small playground was replaced with 2 rides, a meet and greet show, a restaurant and a pub (one of these rides hasn't opened yet, so I will reserve judgement on that one). My point is not that everything is honky dory...far from it, but that we need to have hope (well, I can't speak for everyone, but I do). Because of that I refuse to poo-poo generally positive things that are done. I will continue to write letters and complain (both here and elsewhere) about many things. WDW is still in a very bad place.....and it's neighbors are seing that and going for blood, but new Fantasyland and TT 2.0 were small steps in the right direction. If someone, somewhere in the puzzle palace of TDO is trying to do the right thing, I think that deserves at least some acknowledgement.

  6. #51

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    Re: Carsland at DHS -rumor of announcement this week

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronco21 View Post
    Did you see the New Fantasyland before corporate stepped in? Instead of Dwarves mine train they were putting in another freaking meet and greet... Not to mention the "e-ticket restaurant", great build up that TLM queue creates for a lacking ride, nothing of any interest in Storybook circus, ugly railing around the "Casey Junior reclaimed sewer water happy fun place", ect... Test track does not count since it was payed for by Cheverolet. I give all the credit for that one to WDI. I have seen nothing that TDO has payed for that screamed change. I personally feel that new fantasyland is just like Animal Kingdom. Gorgeous to look at, but not a whole lot to do. Rides are expensive and do not directly increase profit. E-ticket restaurants and photo pass meet and greets do. Nothing has changed at TDO.
    Like I said, most of the change is attributable to the head office. But that doesn't change the fact that things have improved a lot. The final result is what counts.

  7. #52

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    Re: Carsland at DHS -rumor of announcement this week

    Quote Originally Posted by mkcoastie View Post
    I agree that nothing seems to have changed (to enough of an extent, at least) at TDO. What I think, however, we are seeing is that Burbank is slowly starting to step in and realize that TDO is just not cutting the mustard.


    As for New Fantasyland? The New Fantasyland is beautiful....and once the Seven Dwarves opens up, it will have everything one could expect from an expansion of an existing land. As you said, the original plans where horrid.....but they were changed (and I’m pretty sure it was not TDO that motivated that change). There seems to be a lot of misplaced disappointment in New Fantasyland. If you were expecting a full blown response to Wizzarding World, or a CarsLand type addition....well then, you will be disappointed. These where both brand new lands. They were both huge budget projects meant to re-launch parks that had either failed (DCA) or grossly under-performed (IOA) since their conception. That, however, was not what New fantasyland was. It was the expansion of an existing land. In this expansion we got 2 new rides, increased capacity of another, a small water play area, a beautifully themed area.....and yes a meet and greet (that is frankly better described as a show). Added to this was a restaurant that is stunning. If DL had gotten that much in a new expansion, of say, Adventureland....we would all be ecstatic. But we were all looking for MK to respond to potter; we are all comparing New Fantasyland to Carsland. So yeah, it's unfairly coming up short. Will WDW get the huge project that is so desperately needs? lordy, I hope so. We see that certainly SOEMTHING big is coming (although that may be another fight altogether). Until then, however, i think the new fantasyland, if we let it, gives us a glimpse of light. A hope that things might be getting better.
    If it weren't touted as "the biggest expansion in Magic Kingdom's History" (which is actually a lie), then I would agree that we were just judging it by standards it weren't meant to reach. But they did. Just as over hyping an attraction had a detrimental impact on the Little Mermaid at DCA, over hyping (by Disney itself) doomed New Fantasyland for many. The reason that most show displeasure for New Fantasyland is because it COULD have been comparable to WWoHP and Cars Land, but TDO didn't let it. I feel that the same thing will happen to Avatar Land and possibly Cars Land unless WDI gets backing from Glendale. The problems with New Fantasyland are TDO not wanting to create something at its maximum potential.
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  8. #53

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    Re: Carsland at DHS -rumor of announcement this week

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronco21 View Post
    If it weren't touted as "the biggest expansion in Magic Kingdom's History" (which is actually a lie), then I would agree that we were just judging it by standards it weren't meant to reach. But they did. Just as over hyping an attraction had a detrimental impact on the Little Mermaid at DCA, over hyping (by Disney itself) doomed New Fantasyland for many. The reason that most show displeasure for New Fantasyland is because it COULD have been comparable to WWoHP and Cars Land, but TDO didn't let it. I feel that the same thing will happen to Avatar Land and possibly Cars Land unless WDI gets backing from Glendale. The problems with New Fantasyland are TDO not wanting to create something at its maximum potential.
    I don't think they meant "biggest" as a size... I think they meant "biggest" as "most game changing" or "most impressive"... and in that aspect, yes, it definitely is the biggest.

    I went during the preview period and New FL was one of the most impressive theme park areas I've ever seen.

  9. #54

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    Re: Carsland at DHS -rumor of announcement this week

    New Fantasyland was very nearly Princess Meet and Greet Land. Test Track 2 could have been Test Track Starring Lightning McQueen & Friends. That could be because it still has a sponsor. It has lots of World of Motion logos and while it's not World of Motion, a little fan service is better than none at all and at least now it's trying to be futuristic. The old Epcot style is slowly starting to come back showing that not everyone thought EPCOT was as boring as Eisner's teen sons did and Pixar doesn't automatically equal the future. Yes they still have a long way to go but I'm not going to ignore the things they do well because other things are still bad. They could just say, "you fanboys are never happy" and it's back to things like the embarrassment that passes for The Imageworks these days.
    It bothers me when people selectively edit quotes to support whatever point they are trying to prove.

  10. #55

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    Re: Carsland at DHS -rumor of announcement this week

    Quote Originally Posted by mess98 View Post
    I don't think they meant "biggest" as a size... I think they meant "biggest" as "most game changing" or "most impressive"... and in that aspect, yes, it definitely is the biggest.

    I went during the preview period and New FL was one of the most impressive theme park areas I've ever seen.
    Meh, any way you slice it 1975 Tomorrowland is still the biggest expansion in Magic Kingdom history. Flight to the Moon was refurbished into Mission to Mars, Carousel of Progress moved to the east coast with a new show, Rocket Jets opened with the Peoplemover underneath, and Space Mountain made its debut instantly becoming the most well known Disney attraction of all time.
    Last edited by Dapper Dan; 12-14-2012 at 12:03 AM.
    It bothers me when people selectively edit quotes to support whatever point they are trying to prove.

  11. #56

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    Re: Carsland at DHS -rumor of announcement this week

    Quote Originally Posted by mess98 View Post
    I don't think they meant "biggest" as a size... I think they meant "biggest" as "most game changing" or "most impressive"... and in that aspect, yes, it definitely is the biggest.

    I went during the preview period and New FL was one of the most impressive theme park areas I've ever seen.
    I don't agree with that. I would place the additions of Space Mountain, Big Thunder Mountain, Splash Mountain, and Pirates of the Caribbean as much MUCH bigger game changers than New Fantasyland. No E-tickets involved in the so called biggest expansion limits its game changing status IMO. Pirates of the Caribbean (even if it is a shadow of its Disneyland counterpart) alone is more impressive than all of New Fantasyland.
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  12. #57

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    Re: Carsland at DHS -rumor of announcement this week

    And as Dapper Dan pointed out 1975 Tomorrowland was bigger physically.
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  13. #58

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    Re: Carsland at DHS -rumor of announcement this week

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronco21 View Post
    If it weren't touted as "the biggest expansion in Magic Kingdom's History" (which is actually a lie), then I would agree that we were just judging it by standards it weren't meant to reach.
    While I will defend New Fantasyland for what it is, I completely agree with you on this point. The marketing and the way the opening was handled was, well, stupid. We just had a grand opening for a land that's centerpiece (both figurative and literal) is not yet completed. Part of the expansion (Storybook Circus) has been open for most of the year and the rest had been unceremoniously soft opening for a couple weeks by the time the AP/D23/cast member "previews" rolled around. There was just no big impressive wow factor because of this. Imagine what impressions this expansion would have been made if it had been handled better. If rather than opening it up piecemeal, they had waited until all three places (Storybook Circus, Enchanted Forest and Mine train) where ready.....and then opened them all at once. This could have been a knock your socks off type of thing. It would have sucked for those who visited during the much longer interim, but I think it would have been worth it. Be that as it may, however, I still think this beautifully themed new area is a good thing.

  14. #59

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    Re: Carsland at DHS -rumor of announcement this week

    Quote Originally Posted by KingEric View Post
    New Fantasyland replaced an attraction that closed in 1994 and was replaced with a park in 2005, to finally be built on in 2010, with an opening in late 2012.

    Test Track is a ride that opened 2 years late, never performed at it's peak operational levels since it opened in 1998.

    There are still too many outdated and abandoned pieces of property at WDW to say that this is a real clean up effort.
    20K was such a great ride at least something with AAs replaced it finally. However I wouldn't call Test Track a failure yes whoever designed the ride control software screwed up badly but the ride did move enough guests once it finally opened.

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    Re: Carsland at DHS -rumor of announcement this week

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronco21 View Post
    I don't agree with that. I would place the additions of Space Mountain, Big Thunder Mountain, Splash Mountain, and Pirates of the Caribbean as much MUCH bigger game changers than New Fantasyland. No E-tickets involved in the so called biggest expansion limits its game changing status IMO. Pirates of the Caribbean (even if it is a shadow of its Disneyland counterpart) alone is more impressive than all of New Fantasyland.
    Agreed. In impact there is no way new fantasyland is the biggest. It might be in Dollars if you do not factor in inflation from the other past projects. And in might be in physical area that guests can walk around in. I am sure that it is in one of those two area in order for TDO to make this claim so boldly and omni present, that surely there must be at least one angle that it is true.
    Last edited by Kidgenie; 01-01-2013 at 09:02 AM.

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