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  1. #46

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    Re: Disney still working on Avatar Land

    Quote Originally Posted by BandM View Post
    You're joking, right? Please tell me that's some sick joke the Onion made up. I liked Avatar (didn't love it but I didn't think it was a horrible movie) but people really got attached that much to the Navi? Wow, if that's true I might as well claim I got Post Bambi Depression after hearing the gunshot in Bambi.
    No, it's completely true. Whilst the story in the film wasn't great, the setting was wonderful. The bioluminescent plants and walkways at night were brilliant, and I personally felt connected to the world of Pandora through the film screen. I never had suicidal thoughts but I dreamed of visiting a land like that. That's why I'm happy for such a land to be build in DAK. The story was awful but the land and creatures created had me staring in amazement.

    I should probably disclose that I was fairly young when the Star Wars prequels were brought out so I had never truly visited foreign worlds like Pandora in front of a large cinema screen before - especially in IMAX 3D.

    CNN Article on Post Avatar Depression Syndrome: Audiences experience 'Avatar' blues - CNN

  2. #47

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    Re: Disney still working on Avatar Land

    Well written action adventure, sci-fi, romance flicks are few and far between. Avatar stands on it's own thru the brilliantly crafted words-manship - even if there had never been an Avatar film. The imagery in the film is as breathtaking as it is unique. I look forward to the upcoming land for multiple reasons.

    The film even appeals to dragons, as a big winged one was in the theater seat behing me when I saw the flick. I just wish that he hadn't put his claws on my shoulders and burnt my popcorn.
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  3. #48

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    Re: Disney still working on Avatar Land

    Quote Originally Posted by antem View Post
    No, it's completely true. Whilst the story in the film wasn't great, the setting was wonderful. The bioluminescent plants and walkways at night were brilliant, and I personally felt connected to the world of Pandora through the film screen. I never had suicidal thoughts but I dreamed of visiting a land like that. That's why I'm happy for such a land to be build in DAK. The story was awful but the land and creatures created had me staring in amazement.

    I should probably disclose that I was fairly young when the Star Wars prequels were brought out so I had never truly visited foreign worlds like Pandora in front of a large cinema screen before - especially in IMAX 3D.

    CNN Article on Post Avatar Depression Syndrome: Audiences experience 'Avatar' blues - CNN
    On the fan forum site "Avatar Forums," a topic thread entitled "Ways to cope with the depression of the dream of Pandora being intangible," has received more than 1,000 posts from people experiencing depression and fans trying to help them cope.
    ...
    OK sure the world was immersive but suicidal thoughts?!

  4. #49

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    Re: Disney still working on Avatar Land

    Quote Originally Posted by biggsworth View Post
    You can also look at ticket count which has Avatar in the top 20 somewhere ever. There is no crutch for nay-sayers to lean on there. That to me is the only number that matters. You can Google it it's out there. It held the highest ticket count for months world wide. Again you can Google that too. The money we all now isn;t a measuring tool since tickets to Gone with the Wind etc were like what .25cents. You treat all us pro avatar people like we don't have the same resources as you.
    1) there is no such thing as an official ticket count, thats just a fact. there is no source that keeps track of official tickets sold as people only care about the money. what I believe your referring to is an adjusted total to deal with movie ticket inflation that sets ticket prices from all eras at a standard price and sees how they compare. while this does deal with one of the misleading issues behind avatar's success it does not take into account another one of the other problems that can be easily recognized, the additional cost of IMAX and 3D that this film was disproportionally viewed in on this film at a rate of close to 35% of all tickets sold. at an up charge between 2-4 dollars per ticket thats also going to skew the results quite a bit. currently Avatar sits 14th all time but that would move it an additional 4-5 spots down the list. by the way it proves you don't know what your really saying when you said it had the highest ticket count but was surpassed by gone with the wind, a film made in the 1930's and others dropping it down to the top 20 lol. a fun fact, Avatar was beaten by 4 different star wars movies using the above formula, just saying lol.

    2) regardless this only speaks to immediate impact and still does not deal with the larger issue of staying power. this is a little more simple to gage, i ask you this, where is Avatar today? most successful franchises keep some sort of presence in pop-culture, especially in the middle of their franchise's existence. wheres the kids with the action figures and the lunch boxes if it was so popular? to be honest I've only seen it on tv 2 times since its release over the last 2 years. It died so quickly it was even the butt of the joke at the oscars a year later. there is no denying people went out to see this movie but staying power is what matters. People also went out to see "The Sting" in larger numbers before Avatar, should we make a land about that? Do we even remember that this movie existed?

  5. #50

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    Re: Disney still working on Avatar Land

    Quote Originally Posted by maddogjoe View Post
    Talk about "jumping to conclusions", can you tell me one thing they are going to put into "Avatarland", and why it will not be well received? Nobody can, it is all speculation at this point. Until they start digging, and even then things can change, nobody has a leg to stand on.

    The franchise so far has been very well received at the theaters, and they will get a better read on it when the next 2 movies come out. As the main point of the movies was conservation and saving the planet for later generations to live on I don't see why it wouldn't work at Animal Kingdom, after all that is pretty much what that park is all about..... or did most of you miss that by looking for "thrilling rides"?
    well for a fact we've seen what looks to be a soarin type attraction being developed for the land which is disappointing right there but i digress. the issues right now are 1. whether the film belongs in animal kingdom (which it doesn't) 2. if the film has staying power (which its proven it doesn't thus far) and 3. if imaginer's will be given the budget to do it justice and still give us the extra attractions the DAK really needs (which WDW has not yet proven they are willing to). there is also not 3 movies as of right now, there are only 2. after the fast tail off of the first film and the lack of success in the merchandising field the production companies put a hold on the third film until the second one produces some sort of substantiated success. essentially if we receive the same thing we got in the first one this will be a 2 film run. AK is my favorite disney park, as you would have seen if you were actually reading what was being said, and I don't want to see its incredible thematic web tarnished and broken by something "alien" if you will. AK is about the conservation of the planet and its flora and fauna, not the loosest extremes of the conservation theme. I think rarely a film should get its own land particularily because its very rare a film stays relevant for the 25 some odd years it takes for the land to turn around the only two examples I would set aside from this would be the muppets and Star wars but they've also proven themselves and their properties over the last 30 years. I would be much happier if avatar received a nice e-ticket attraction at DHS where it belongs, not disrupting the extremely well executed thematics of AK.

  6. #51

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    Re: Disney still working on Avatar Land

    I still vote to bring in Australia into Animal Kingdom. You could do a submarine ride style ride that goes through the "great barrier reef" where you can see fishes native to that area. Very similar to Nemo in Disneyland but without Nemo. You could also have a coaster in the land as well similar to Knott's Berry Farms "Boomerang" (Boomerang and Australia go hand in hand). I don't love the idea of another franchise being added into the parks, it's not innovative and doesn't really add to the Disney Park family, it's just borrowing from a film. It's too safe or as some are saying unsafe because they think it will bomb, which I tend to agree with.

  7. #52

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    Re: Disney still working on Avatar Land

    Box office figures indicate that people were interested enough to see spend $15 on it. There was a huge amount of hype surrounding this movie mostly based around its technical achievements. My personal opinion is that a fair amount of people say it for the novelty of the new technology.

    Yes the computer generated sets were pretty and I'm sure there were also people who wanted to see what this glowy world with the blue people was about. I'm also not saying that the film doesn't have real hardcore fans but none of that really diminishes my concerns about the property's longevity.

    It broke dvd sales records, which is a good sign, but the mediocre merchandise sales raise real concerns of how much that world really worked its way into our culture. It amazes me that practically every time I go out I will see a stranger wearing something with Mickey Mouse on it. I still see Star Wars shirts fairly recently and it is still referenced in other media. I see none of that for Avatar. Just from my own observations, Avatar appears to be nothing more than a very very big fad. The sequels have a lot of work to do to turn that around. I really don't think we'll see any physical movement on the theme park end until at least after the first sequel comes out and proves me wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by maddogjoe View Post
    Darn I must have missed that! duh!, the point is that both are about conservation, it doesn't matter the name of the planet.

    Lets face it, AK is nothing more than a zoo. Disney had the same "nay-sayer's" when proposing that park I'm sure and look what they did with a "zoo".
    Africa and Rafiki's Planet watch are about conservation. Discovery Island (barely) is about education. Asia is about adventures. Dinoland USA is about opportunism and Camp Minnie Mickey is about Disney. Every zoo is about conservation but only in those two areas does Disney really hit it on the nose.

    Animal Kingdom is far more about the earth than it is about conservation. It is more about the conflicts and balance between nature and civilization. As much as it is about the animals it is also about humans and our relationship and responsibility to our world.

    Avatar at its core is about colonialism. Yes the Na'vi love animals and have a deep bond with their natural environment, but they aren't the ones in conflict with it. The humans are an outside invading force who need nothing from this planet. They couldn't learn to coexist with it even if they wanted to because the very air is toxic to them. Their only goal is to take what they want and move on. Other than the mineral with the ridiculous name the planet is useless to them. Animal Kingdom's message of conservation is that animals live on this planet too so we have to share it with them. Avatar's message of conservation is we shouldn't murder this primitive civilization because the protagonists seem to like them.

    The Na'vi weren't really all that concerned with conservation either. They were just trying not to get murdered by the humans and got mad when their main city was destroyed. Environmentalism is only shoehorned in because their city happens to be a tree. They didn't much seem to care when other trees got knocked down but it was a disaster when the humans destroyed the one tree that was their library.

    Quote Originally Posted by maddogjoe View Post
    While nobody knows the lasting power of the Avatar franchise all Disney is building is an terrarium with a few rides added in. For the next 15 years its "Avatar Land" after that maybe they will change a few things around and it will be "Old Earth Land" where you can go and see all the plants we USE TO have on earth who knows.
    So you're saying that Avatarland will be so poorly themed that when Avatar is no longer popular it will be easy to turn into something else? The people expecting to see glowing plants everywhere are going to be really upset about that. Of course it's also possible that it will be so well done the first time that if its ever turned into something else it will need a very expensive rebuild. Either way, my question is why bother then? If you're either not going to do it right the first time or so worried that it might not be worth having in 15 years, why do it in the first place? Also, "Old Earth Land" with all the extinct stuff is called Dinoland. Or at least it should be instead of that whole Chester & Hester mess...ter.

    Quote Originally Posted by maddogjoe View Post
    It's called Avatar land because thats whos kicking in the money. Those people want it as advertizing to help sell their movies. That why they aren't going to fund a new country at EPCOT, Add Australia, or push StarWars.
    Cameron's not paying for this. Disney is paying to build the thing AND is also paying Cameron for permission to call it Avatar which further raises the question: if you are worried it might not be worth being named Avatar in 15 years, why are you paying so much to do it?

    Quote Originally Posted by maddogjoe View Post
    The biggest problem I think most people have with Avatar Land is they don't know "how" Disney is going to pull it off, they can't imagine anything good coming out of it for a park. Lucky for us they are NOT Disney Imagineers
    I'm not at all worried about if Disney can do it well. I know they can. I even think that they might if they give in to Cameron's whining enough. My problem is that I don't think they should. Especially when we know there is already another proposed concept that fits the theme of the park much better and doesn't come from an expensive intellectual property with unproven staying power. The nightmare scenario is that by the time Avatar land opens the public reaction is, "Avatar? that's so 2009." The goal is that they don't say that at all or at least not until it has at least made back enough money to turn it into whatever happens next. Again, why not just cut out that middle step?
    It bothers me when people selectively edit quotes to support whatever point they are trying to prove.

  8. #53

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    Re: Disney still working on Avatar Land

    Well done Dan, I could not have summed my thoughts up better then you have here.

  9. #54

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    Re: Disney still working on Avatar Land

    I really don't want them to build an Avatar land. I saw the movie, and that it was long and boring. I would much rather them build Australia or another land like that. I also agree that Star Wars land should be fast tracked now that they own it. We can all forget about Avatar land. If we need to build a land based on mythical animals, fine do it, that could be cool. But the animals from Avatar aren't even based on any of the classic greek myths. In my mind it just doesn't fit.

  10. #55

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    Re: Disney still working on Avatar Land

    Quote Originally Posted by Dapper Dan View Post
    I'm not at all worried about if Disney can do it well. I know they can. I even think that they might if they give in to Cameron's whining enough. My problem is that I don't think they should. Especially when we know there is already another proposed concept that fits the theme of the park much better and doesn't come from an expensive intellectual property with unproven staying power. The nightmare scenario is that by the time Avatar land opens the public reaction is, "Avatar? that's so 2009." The goal is that they don't say that at all or at least not until it has at least made back enough money to turn it into whatever happens next. Again, why not just cut out that middle step?
    This.

  11. #56

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    Re: Disney still working on Avatar Land

    Quote Originally Posted by Dapper Dan View Post
    I'm not at all worried about if Disney can do it well. I know they can. I even think that they might if they give in to Cameron's whining enough. My problem is that I don't think they should. Especially when we know there is already another proposed concept that fits the theme of the park much better and doesn't come from an expensive intellectual property with unproven staying power. The nightmare scenario is that by the time Avatar land opens the public reaction is, "Avatar? that's so 2009." The goal is that they don't say that at all or at least not until it has at least made back enough money to turn it into whatever happens next. Again, why not just cut out that middle step?
    I agree about your "should they do an Avatar land?" (I don't think they should).

    Concerning whether Disney CAN do it - properly, you should also include "can they do a properly WITH THE BUDGET THEY WILL BE PROVIDED". Of course Disney could probably do ANYTHING they wanted. But it's the budget part that usually short circuits any ability to do anything to the extend they COULD do.

  12. #57

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    Re: Disney still working on Avatar Land

    We should really wait for Avatar Lands concept art to come out before we start bashing it. Who knows, it could be so much better than we think it will be. I am not taking one side over another but I would rather see something else put in instead.
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  13. #58

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    Re: Disney still working on Avatar Land

    Quote Originally Posted by PerrySimon View Post
    We should really wait for Avatar Lands concept art to come out before we start bashing it. Who knows, it could be so much better than we think it will be. I am not taking one side over another but I would rather see something else put in instead.

    Pretty much agree here I am rooting for something good not for them to fail. I can't wait to see it.

  14. #59

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    Re: Disney still working on Avatar Land

    Take this as you will... I'm only posting what I read, so don't shoot the messenger.

    On Twitter today, someone who said they're a CM at AK said that Avatarland was scrapped months ago and they learned this information from upper management. Said they realized it was a huge waste of space and money.

    Like I said... take it as a rumor or what have you. I personally hope it's true because to me it does seem like a huge waste of space and money. And who really wants to continually have to butt heads with James Cameron's oversized ego?

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    Re: Disney still working on Avatar Land

    Quote Originally Posted by aimster View Post
    Take this as you will... I'm only posting what I read, so don't shoot the messenger.

    On Twitter today, someone who said they're a CM at AK said that Avatarland was scrapped months ago and they learned this information from upper management. Said they realized it was a huge waste of space and money.

    Like I said... take it as a rumor or what have you. I personally hope it's true because to me it does seem like a huge waste of space and money. And who really wants to continually have to butt heads with James Cameron's oversized ego?
    I hope this is only half true. While I would love for the AVATAR portion to be dropped, I don't want to loose the huge budget that it apperantly had attached to it. I only hope they just move that budgeted money to a different project.

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